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Posted: 1/28/2009 9:06:34 AM EDT
| O.K. people lets keep this CIVIL. I am new to this site and new to AR`s. I have always wanted one since the mid 80`s but was only 10 or so. My question is How do you rank all of the AR companies out there. Armalite, Del-Ton, Colt, Bushmaster, etc. I have read great reviews on a lot of them but I want to know from people who use them a lot. I do know I want a 16" mid-length flat top with a collapsible stock and flat gas block for folding sites. I do plan on a bi-pod and scope for coyote/varmit hunts. Other then what I listed whats the big deal between them all. AGAIN, KEEP IT CIVIL FOR A NEWBIE. |
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Why wouldn't we be civil?
But, as sburggsx said, you'll pretty much need to take what you can get instead of picking what you'll take. ETA, Stay away from Vulcan/Hesse. Some folks hate Olympic but I have no experience with the company. They do seem to make dandy non-firing ARs for the military these days, though. |
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You couldn't have picked a worse time in history to fulfill your "dream." Right now you'll probably be faced with what you can find versus being able to pick and choose options. Good luck. To some degree. Do your homework, and you could get lucky. I was looking for a Stag 2T. I wanted an A2 front post, but wanted a flat top with flip up rear. The Stag fit this. I found a place that would back order one for me. I watched the wait time double and then triple by the weeks. I never gave up looking though. Eventually found a shop right by the stag factory, and when I called the owner literally had a 2T in his hand. Credit card - boom, two days later I had my gun. Still have to cancel the other order. I think your pecking order question is why your implying you may get flamed. Its a tough one. First, decide what your needs are, and what niche the gun will fill. I didn't know I wanted a Stag, but after reading around here, I came to the conclusion that I wanted a gun that was moderately priced (less than $1300), had good reviews, good craftmanship, and was mil spec. All that equalled a Stag Rifle. Generally no one will put Stag in the top 3 List, but I think it beats out a good number in the top 10. Thats all I was looking for. |
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Civility, lol, you must have been lurking in GD.
It sounds like you already know name brands, so... a) if you recognize the name and it fits your tech specs you should be safe so long as it's not a Vulcan/Oly(supposedly, mine's fine)/Century/WESOG b) buy a parts kit fitting your specs and a stripped lower, grab some hand tools and go through the build walkthrough here on the site, and really get to know your weapon Of course, this is during a time of very high demand/low supply, it's gonna be costly, if available. Best of luck, HW78 |
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To answer your question, Tier 1 mfgs are the ones that build to the TDP: Colt, LMT, and possibly Sabre Defense. Noveske is also usually ranked very highly. These manufacturers are generally considered first-rate. I have no experience with any of the above with the exception of Colt parts I've used in builds. Bushmaster, RRA, and Armalite are regarded as a step down the quality ladder but still a decent gun for the money. My builds have been based off of BM & RRA parts with the occasional Colt BCG thrown in for good measure. These have run well for me. You may want or need to do some minor tweaking to get the gun 100% (stake the gas key on the carrier for example). Then you've got the "kit" guns; who knows what you're getting. Might be fine for 10k rounds, might choke after 500. YMMV. The previous respondents are right: pretty much whatever you can find that fits your budget is your best (only?) option at the moment. Do as much research as you can, then cross your fingers and put down the money.
ETA: somewhere there is a chart floating around that does a detailed comparison of the various manufacturers as far as barrel steel, staking, etc. |
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You know, I kind of slipped up with my first response.
If you were to frequent the local gun shows you will find a metric ton of people carrying their prized AR's around. They really don't *want* to sell them, but for the right price they might be able to let them go.  If you're willing to pay the entry price you may find exactly what you want, and instead of waiting for 3-6-9-infinity months you could very well take it home.
Typically the price of entry is the same as what you'd find from any dealer right now and you may even not have the hassle of paperwork..... if that sort of thing concerns you. Again, I wish you luck! |
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To answer your question, Tier 1 mfgs are the ones that build to the TDP: Colt, LMT, and possibly Sabre Defense. Noveske is also usually ranked very highly. These manufacturers are generally considered first-rate. I have no experience with any of the above with the exception of Colt parts I've used in builds. Bushmaster, RRA, and Armalite are regarded as a step down the quality ladder but still a decent gun for the money. My builds have been based off of BM & RRA parts with the occasional Colt BCG thrown in for good measure. These have run well for me. You may want or need to do some minor tweaking to get the gun 100% (stake the gas key on the carrier for example). Then you've got the "kit" guns; who knows what you're getting. Might be fine for 10k rounds, might choke after 500. YMMV. The previous respondents are right: pretty much whatever you can find that fits your budget is your best (only?) option at the moment. Do as much research as you can, then cross your fingers and put down the money. ETA: somewhere there is a chart floating around that does a detailed comparison of the various manufacturers as far as barrel steel, staking, etc. Where can you find Colt parts? Specifically the BCG |
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I was going to buy a Smith before I got ahold of my Bushmaster. I also got to handle a Smith extensively at a gun show and I was impressed with the quality and workmanship. Everything was very crisp and tight. Nice finish and fit. From what I understand, they are good rifles. Not sure how long you would have to wait to get one on order, but if you can walk out with one in the price range you saw, you should grab one (or two––one to shoot, one for investment).
Good luck (Bushmasters are great guns too btw. :-) ) |
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O.K. people lets keep this CIVIL. I am new to this site and new to AR`s. I have always wanted one since the mid 80`s but was only 10 or so. My question is How do you rank all of the AR companies out there. Armalite, Del-Ton, Colt, Bushmaster, etc. I have read great reviews on a lot of them but I want to know from people who use them a lot. I do know I want a 16" mid-length flat top with a collapsible stock and flat gas block for folding sites. I do plan on a bi-pod and scope for coyote/varmit hunts. Other then what I listed whats the big deal between them all. AGAIN, KEEP IT CIVIL FOR A NEWBIE. No way pal, we aren't helping you. Nope. You get to experience AR hell like the rest of us. Buy your first one. Upgrade and change virtually everything on it. Sell it. Buy another brand. Decide that you need a different configuration so you buy another. Then you upgrade the hell out of it. Then you lie to your wife to get another. Then you buy two for the kids because 'they won't be able to buy one when they get older'. :D It took most of us enough money to buy a Jaguar to figure all this out. Seriously, I like Olympic Arms because of price. I bought a plinker plus and I am now waiting on two stripped lowers and parts kits to come in. I plan to build two as money allows, one for each child. Many here don't like Oly but I would rather have an Oly than none at all. My two lowers will be something other than Oly. I know you say you only want 1 but plan on three or four. What? Yes you will. Yeah, yep, yes you will. I promise. So plan your configurations out well so you don't end up with three or four of the same configurations (unless that's what you want). New |
Double tap??? I guess I`d better stop triple tapping and come down to your level  HEHEHE. I started to look at Del-Tons offerings and I figure I may go with them. What the hell, ya know? I can wait 12 to 16 weeks. Its gonna be a slow build up to get the parts I want anyway as I am raising my 5yr. old son on my own. I have all of the AR catalogs from different companies for parts and everything so it will be fun. Thanks a lot everybody.
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| if your area has gun shows, hit them. you just need to research and find out how much the parts you want should sell for. you should be able to get everything you need over a mo. or two. shit where i live in texas, they have 1 almost every weekend. its great! good luck w/ your project. |
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It is going to come down to dollars. How much are you willing to spend for an AR and what exactly are you looking for in one, KISS, rails, SBR, light wieght, mag-pul stocks, bla bla bla. Do you want to build or buy complete?
Best advise I can give at this point is do your home work and once you know what you want (be exact) we can help you acheive your goal. Best of luck. |
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How good is Smith & Wesson? I've seen several reasonably priced ARs from S&W. It seems Colt's are hard to find, but there are Bushmasters available at close to the listed web site MSRP. They are decent and getting better. Check out the tacked thread: What Parts break in a carbine course. AR/M4 Guru Pat Rogers has posted frequently. He sees more rifles in training classes (.mil, LEO, and civilian) than most people do in a lifetime, he's written about what works and what doesn't in that thread. |
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CMMG gets my vote. Although a few will bemoan their customer service, I have had nothing but good experiences. Through my own research the "Tier" system is complete crap. There are NO "mil-spec" civvy ARs out there by definition because the military does not inspect or oversee production on civvy ARs...Even at the Colt factory. CMMG offers just about any barrel contour you could want, 1/12 or 1/7 twist rates, properly staked carriers, M4 feedramps standard, low shelf receivers (my own personal preference, hey maybe someday I'll be able to afford a RDIAS...or not), Pmags drop free, MPI barrels and bolts, full auto bolt carriers (if you want), and a black extractor buffer.
Everyone has their favorite manufacturer, and what it really boils down to in most cases is a Chevy vs. Ford argument. It's hard to objectively argue which is "better," it's just personal preference. BTW, I also have a Stag which has functioned flawlessly for 3500 rounds and counting. I think Stag makes a good rifle, but it doesn't have the options that CMMG offers. |
| Gun shows in MI are ridiculous!!! Had one guy wanting $300 for STRIPPED receivers. I asked him why he wanted so much when I could get them for 120 or so and he got pissed. His AR`s were almost 2g`s also. Most others there were just high of a grand. I figure a 16" mid-length with flat top and collapsible stock, 2 mags and hard case for 750 from Del-Ton was a great deal. Then, as time and money allow, I could upgrade as needed. |
im no ar expert by any means , i bought a del-ton rifle just a couple of months ago and it is a fine firearm they are good people to deal with . just my $.02Quoted:
Gun shows in MI are ridiculous!!! Had one guy wanting $300 for STRIPPED receivers. I asked him why he wanted so much when I could get them for 120 or so and he got pissed. His AR`s were almost 2g`s also. Most others there were just high of a grand. I figure a 16" mid-length with flat top and collapsible stock, 2 mags and hard case for 750 from Del-Ton was a great deal. Then, as time and money allow, I could upgrade as needed. |
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I would go over to LaRuetactical.com and order one of their stealth uppers and lowers. Then find a Lower parts kit on the EE here, and add a stok and you're good to go.
The LaRue stuff is top shelf and the wait on them right now is probably the lowest around despite a huge backlog. I think people are getting their uppers in a few weeks and the lowers in a month or so. |
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How good is Smith & Wesson? I've seen several reasonably priced ARs from S&W. It seems Colt's are hard to find, but there are Bushmasters available at close to the listed web site MSRP. They are decent and getting better. Check out the tacked thread: What Parts break in a carbine course. AR/M4 Guru Pat Rogers has posted frequently. He sees more rifles in training classes (.mil, LEO, and civilian) than most people do in a lifetime, he's written about what works and what doesn't in that thread. AMEN to that. |
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