AR Sponsor
Posted: 2/18/2013 7:51:16 PM EDT
|
Ok guys we have some incredibly talented folks around here making some fantastic items for us. So,in the spirit of "keeping it honest",my Q is this, would folks like to see new made replica parts,or modified original parts marked in some small way to show it's not an expensive original vintage part??? Keep in mind,once a part has changed hands once or twice,they suddenly become originals.I've seen it happen in EVERY field of collecting I've been involved in. I hate it when I hear of guys who buy something claimed to be original that turns out to be fake.Yeah,,I know,,let the buyer beware,,never liked that saying. Post your thoughts,and vote. We all know Heatnbeat asked this a few years back and he did go on to mark his parts.Figured it's time for an update.
ETA,I'm NOT suggesting some BIG ugly mark,just something. |
|
Need to mark, not that it will stop those with fraudulent intentions. Already seeing it to some degree. Civil war relics are overrun with fakes. Basically killed that hobby. Most all the top collectors have been burned with some very good fakes for huge coins also. Rare coins have been faked for quite some time and many get burned constantly.
Unfortunately very little good comes from reproductions except those who can't afford originals can get something close to or visually appearing original for a fraction of authentic parts cost or possibly not. Whole reproduction idea has always been a little fradulent. It's done as deception, for whatever reason, period. To replicate something it isn't. Sure is a depressing sight when those with high dollar fakes are told the bad news. Never sits well. |
|
I'll go with mark them, but if someone is set on turning a repo part in to original there will have to be a mark that will not be easy to remove, but with grinding tools mill & lathe machines its mission imposable to mark a part that they can't get it off. The only way is to make the repo close but not a perfect match, and that only gives the ones with mill & lathe machines a good starting point. I don't think there will be a way to mark the parts to tell repo from original I think we have to educate everyone on the original markings of the part and yes I know sometimes that's just as hard as trying to spot a repo. Until some better marking system comes along all we have is our education.
Just my 2 pennies |
Not that it will matter in the long run...NDS as well as Heatnbeat does this though and I think it's the most honest way to repro stuff.
| Newly made vintage parts are sometimes the only option a lot of us have. The trouble is whenever there is a chance to fool someone for a profit, it will happen, some people suck. Fakes abound in the collectable firearms buisness and have for many years. Marking the parts in an inconspicuous place just makes sense to me. The only reason someone would not want a part marked(in my mind)is so they could pass it off later as the real thing, which just isn't fair. |
|
Everything reproduction should be marked with a very small "Mattel" logo. That way, only the truly gullible will ever get ripped off...and they'll likely be ripped off spectacularly!
Protects knowledgable buyers AND gives us years of future entertainment! Who could be against that? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mark them. Absolutely. Put it somewhere where it won't show when the part's installed, though. Agreed. I wish that NDS would mark the 603 uppers in a less noticable place instead of the big ol NDS Forge Mark!. Maybe the N like GM Repro uppers they sell. |
|
I'm in agreement that they should be marked.........but.........repro parts on the used parts market, or should I say their description, is mostly up to the integrity of the seller.
I'm reading......make the mark "hidden" when installed........or redily apparent if removed.......or hard to remove.....etc etc. I promise you that someone that wants to pass something off as the real deal can do it. Maybe only once or twice before the word gets out that they are a dishonest seller. That's cured by opening another account on whatever site you're selling on. I know I have bought parts just off of the sellers word, because a picture is only as good as the seller wants the picture to be. Anyplace I place my ID on a repop, that won't show when the part is installed, can most likely be easily removed/covered up/altered, etc and then tried to be passed off as original. Now, I;m not saying anything I or someone can machine is going to be that exact, but that an unscrupulous individual could probably dupe a buyer unless face-to-face. If there is money to be made, sure as we're all sitting here talking about it, someone out there is dishonest enough to try to take advantage of someone else. We've all seen it one time or another. I've been had before, and I'll say it's happened mostly when I haven't done my homework. The excitement of thinking I've found some hard to find part that I've come upon at a show, and bought it without knowing enough about the part in question. I'll finish by saying that after a conversation I had with M1sniper, that I will be marking my repop parts. I hadn't given much thought to that untill we talked....just didn't cross my mind. edit......one more thing. I'm not saying caveat emptor, or however ya spell that, but that as a buyer you are better off informed/educated than trusting an unknown seller. |
I will agree with the unobtrusive marking, but I'd just be happier if the jackwad on the EE who sold me my FIRST retro upper 2 years ago had been honest about the cracked carry handle, but no - paid top dollar for something I gave away later. Point is - dishonest jerks can always find away - real or repro, to sell crap to the newbies. Wish I had know some of the folks here first. But now 5 or 6 builds later it has all worked out! 
|
|
Quoted:
I'll go with mark them, but if someone is set on turning a repo part in to original there will have to be a mark that will not be easy to remove, but with grinding tools mill & lathe machines its mission imposable to mark a part that they can't get it off. The only way is to make the repo close but not a perfect match, and that only gives the ones with mill & lathe machines a good starting point. I don't think there will be a way to mark the parts to tell repo from original I think we have to educate everyone on the original markings of the part and yes I know sometimes that's just as hard as trying to spot a repo. Until some better marking system comes along all we have is our education. Just my 2 pennies +1. we need a sticky on the repro parts that members here make. we have buying guides for original parts, we should have one for repros too. i'm sure the talented folks here who churn out parts would love to share their parts and how to distinguish them from the original. as far as getting the parts marked. people here have stated that they would like them marked but people who use them in their builds can always creatively modify them. are we going to judge someone who wants their build a little more accurate? we've seen people here remove NDS forge codes for their personal builds. how many uppers have we seen reprofiled to 601/602 spec? what do we want to do about small parts that can't be feasibly marked? items like dimpled pivot/takedown pins, sight screws etc? even nodak can't mark their uppers with a B for their blem as there is no good place for it. what about the faux paint jobs? would those count are repros? should we expect everyone that modifies a part to mark it? or is this a standard that only applies to people who make/sell repro parts? while i appreciate that nds does mark their items, for the truly rbrd infected, that extra ridge on the charging handle will both them. remember we are the same group that examines parts that often can't be seen with a magnifying glass for a tiny mark that 99.9% of people would never know was there. also on auctions, where sometimes pictures are lacking, it'd be real hard to spot a repro. especially if it's hidden and the seller doesn't know what to look for. i know i get excited when i see a square pad ejection port cover and there isn't always a picture of it open to show the detent housing. i think in the end, education is the best tool we have. to build a living document to show each other what to look for. we already do that to some extent, we've outted many fake/fraud auctions from the repro bayonets being passed off as real to type d stocks being sold as type c. there is/was a thread in the team forum on how to determine knock off items like larue and magpul products. i think we can get something done like that here. |
AR Sponsor