AR Sponsor
Posted: 4/12/2014 11:05:41 AM EDT
| I might be talking out of my butt here but couldnt you get a high powered scope like a Leupold or Nikon scopes then b\uy a 45 degree ,mount and get a red dot scope and attach that for quick short range target acquisition? |
|
I tend to think this shooting setup became popular out side 3-gun because of it being in one of those call of duty games.
I whole heartedly believe for real two way ranges this is a system too compromised to bet your life on. If your in a situation that could warrant a big objective scope setup then the need for cqb shouldn't arise. And if it does have something setup for it. You'd have to train with both equally To justify it. Or I'm wrong and someone will post with a 20x scope with standard back up irons and two sets of back up 45deg mounts all zero'd at different ranges and have two offset red dots one left one right again, with different zeros. With a acog mounted forward on the rail "just in case". And it will be awesome. |
|
Quoted:
I tend to think this shooting setup became popular out side 3-gun because of it being in one of those call of duty games. I whole heartedly believe for real two way ranges this is a system too compromised to bet your life on. If your in a situation that could warrant a big objective scope setup then the need for cqb shouldn't arise. And if it does have something setup for it. You'd have to train with both equally To justify it. Or I'm wrong and someone will post with a 20x scope with standard back up irons and two sets of back up 45deg mounts all zero'd at different ranges and have two offset red dots one left one right again, with different zeros. With a acog mounted forward on the rail "just in case". And it will be awesome. You ever been on a "two way range"? |
|
Quoted:
I tend to think this shooting setup became popular out side 3-gun because of it being in one of those call of duty games. I whole heartedly believe for real two way ranges this is a system too compromised to bet your life on. If your in a situation that could warrant a big objective scope setup then the need for cqb shouldn't arise. And if it does have something setup for it. You'd have to train with both equally To justify it. Or I'm wrong and someone will post with a 20x scope with standard back up irons and two sets of back up 45deg mounts all zero'd at different ranges and have two offset red dots one left one right again, with different zeros. With a acog mounted forward on the rail "just in case". And it will be awesome. You are indeed right that a very complex system is not ideal in combat situations. For the most part, a 4x scope is good enough for most ranges. If you're talking about <15 yard or so, then most likely you're not going to be aiming down the sights and if you are, chances are the other person is going to hit you first. Most military pictures I've seen very rarely have a rds/rmr on their optics and the only ones that do tend to be saw runners. |
|
I generally keep my SPR scope less with the Troy sights deployed. I can drop them down and install my Leopold with LT-104 mount in about 20 seconds or less.
That being my preference I have also seen the likes of Jerry Miculek employing a carbine with scope and off set dot very effectively. |
|
Mine just arrived today. 
|
|
Quoted:
You ever been on a "two way range"? Ah the two way range police. No I haven't, didn't think I was insinuating I had. with out a tank icon I'm gonna assume you haven't been either so what's it to you? Even if you are former military I doubt you'd be allowed to run an offset sight system anyways. Maybe your law enforcement and have an extraordinarily high number of officer involved shootings where long range shots with possible cqb encounters are the norm. Maybe your a hobbyist like me, maybe you have the disease as bad as me. Maybe you convinced your self not having a close in optic will get you killed in your SHTF fantasy while deploying your mk12 clone. Maybe you spent almost $700 on the thing and feel the need to defend it on a Internet forum. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a non weak side useable sight on a gun over weight for what your trying to achieve is a compromise lacking. Great for gamers that need quick shots. Bad for people adrenalin dumping to transition into. Few people in the hobby side shoot enough to have an unorthodox optic system and expect it to be more then bling. |
|
Quoted:
You ever been on a "two way range"? Ah the two way range police. No I haven't, didn't think I was insinuating I had. with out a tank icon I'm gonna assume you haven't been either so what's it to you? Even if you are former military I doubt you'd be allowed to run an offset sight system anyways. Maybe your law enforcement and have an extraordinarily high number of officer involved shootings where long range shots with possible cqb encounters are the norm. Maybe your a hobbyist like me, maybe you have the disease as bad as me. Maybe you convinced your self not having a close in optic will get you killed in your SHTF fantasy while deploying your mk12 clone. Maybe you spent almost $700 on the thing and feel the need to defend it on a Internet forum. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a non weak side useable sight on a gun over weight for what your trying to achieve is a compromise lacking. Great for gamers that need quick shots. Bad for people adrenalin dumping to transition into. Few people in the hobby side shoot enough to have an unorthodox optic system and expect it to be more then bling. |
|
Quoted:
Ah the two way range police. No I haven't, didn't think I was insinuating I had. with out a tank icon I'm gonna assume you haven't been either so what's it to you? Even if you are former military I doubt you'd be allowed to run an offset sight system anyways. Maybe your law enforcement and have an extraordinarily high number of officer involved shootings where long range shots with possible cqb encounters are the norm. Maybe your a hobbyist like me, maybe you have the disease as bad as me. Maybe you convinced your self not having a close in optic will get you killed in your SHTF fantasy while deploying your mk12 clone. Maybe you spent almost $700 on the thing and feel the need to defend it on a Internet forum. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a non weak side useable sight on a gun over weight for what your trying to achieve is a compromise lacking. Great for gamers that need quick shots. Bad for people adrenalin dumping to transition into. Few people in the hobby side shoot enough to have an unorthodox optic system and expect it to be more then bling. Quoted:
Quoted:
You ever been on a "two way range"? Ah the two way range police. No I haven't, didn't think I was insinuating I had. with out a tank icon I'm gonna assume you haven't been either so what's it to you? Even if you are former military I doubt you'd be allowed to run an offset sight system anyways. Maybe your law enforcement and have an extraordinarily high number of officer involved shootings where long range shots with possible cqb encounters are the norm. Maybe your a hobbyist like me, maybe you have the disease as bad as me. Maybe you convinced your self not having a close in optic will get you killed in your SHTF fantasy while deploying your mk12 clone. Maybe you spent almost $700 on the thing and feel the need to defend it on a Internet forum. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a non weak side useable sight on a gun over weight for what your trying to achieve is a compromise lacking. Great for gamers that need quick shots. Bad for people adrenalin dumping to transition into. Few people in the hobby side shoot enough to have an unorthodox optic system and expect it to be more then bling. You know what they say when you assume something, right? Sorry I don't have the time to get a tank icon to make you feel better, but after using an ACOG in combat, I now also use an offset Aimpoint T-1 as well because I think, FOR ME, it is a better and faster system. For some reason, I'm one of those guys that can't comfortably use an ACOG's BAC system. I've been using it for a while, and after using it in more than a few classes, I can see that it works pretty well with practice. I don't know what your problem is, but apparently you have one. You start a thread and comment on something you don't have any experience with and don't expect those that do to comment back? Yeah, you've got issues. |
|
Wow! OP makes a post (admittedly a weak one) and quite a discussion and debate ensues before he even responds!
FWIW, we all know that 45 degree offset is widely employed now. That is really beyond debate. We can debate its utility, and you guys surely are! But, allow me to present a different perspective for those who run illuminated scopes with higher magnification ranges: BAC - Bindon Aiming Concept, but with a flip up lens cap in closed position in standard or default mode. I run a Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9x40mm with FireDot TMR reticle. Almost accidentally, I discovered that with the cap closed, it makes for an excellent CQB optic like the old "occluded eye" scopes of yore. Look through it with cap closed and you see a nice, finely focused red dot against a black background. Raise the rifle and look at your target with both eyes open. Yeah! I get it. BAC without the confusion of magnification in one eye. Since the Leupold Firedot is motion activated, its default mode is off until you pick up the rifle, at which time it instantly comes on. I keep the rifle this is mounted on in my bedroom with the cap down. In this configuration, you shoot both eyes open, and like with a red dot, eye relief is irrelevant. You just put the dot on the target and bang. The bullet will go right of point of aim by the distance between your eyes, about 3-4 inches, but otherwise, it is lightning quick. The red dot is suspended against a black background, so you have no sense of double vision or blurred image. You just keep both eyes open and see the red dot superimposed on the target. You don't even see the black background - just dot on target. If you need magnification for distance, just flip up the front cap and use the scope like a regular scope. You have the full capabilities of the scope, which I normally keep down on 3x as the default, but can dial up more power, if needed and to 9x for milrad subtensions. If you have an illuminated dot as a part of your scope reticle give this a try. I see no need to put a 45 degree offset sight on this setup. I mention this because of weight and money. Adding an additional mount and an optic is going to make the rifle heavier and your wallet lighter. The only weight added with this technique is the weight of the lens cap, which is going to be there for me, anyway, and you can save the money for more ammo. |
AR Sponsor