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4/6/2004 1:18:50 PM EDT
I was considering this Rock River Arms 16" A4 upper as the basis for a self-defense oriented carbine:

varmint carbine

Any comments pro or con?  Give me your thoughts, I'm new to this board.


I can't have a flash hider in California, I don't want a muzzle brake.  

I intend to use an Aimpoint sight.
4/6/2004 3:27:46 PM EDT
[#1]
I have a RRA mid-length upper, I am very happy with it. If you are considering home defense, you may want to go with a 12ga and not kill your neighbors when that 223 goes whizzing thru the walls. Just a suggestion, not being smart ass.
4/6/2004 3:35:05 PM EDT
[#2]
I have a Mid Length handguard 16" RRA and I like it too.  I doubt that a .5.56 will go thru multiple pieces of sheetrock into a neighbors home...BUT if it goes thru a window all bet's are off>
4/6/2004 3:57:18 PM EDT
[#3]
I lived in the foothills in Madera County between Freno and Yosemite in California.  For that application it would be quite nice.  The only thought is that if you think that you will fire it in the dark (quite probable), consider your options for attaching a light source.  That said, law enforcement with the Sheriff's Office was OK, the city cops were "nervous in the service" about anything.

I can promise based on real-time combat conditions at night, something to light up the subject is a necessity.
4/6/2004 8:53:27 PM EDT
[#4]
h8mtv,

I completely understand your point and agree 100% regarding the danger of overpenetration.  I have a handgun (maneuverable, comfortable).  I have a shot gun (too ounwieldy in a small house).  I thought I'd add a carbine.

Please understand it is mostly a homeland security fantasy.  I hope it stays that way, too.  I'll park it in the gun safe right beside the shotgun.

Are there ANY bullets or loaded ammunition suitable for self defense when used in a .223 (pointed soft point,...)?  What weight is best?
4/6/2004 10:33:19 PM EDT
[#5]
I beg to differ!! I have seen a 22 short go through 2 pieces of 2X4 & 4 trailer home walls and still was never found.Something slow & big would be your best bet for home defense! Like a Taurus modle 450 in 45 long colt loaded with hollow points.YOu can get a winchester carbine "16 barrel used for around 3-$400.I would never use a 223 for home defense.Maybe a cheap pump shotgun with the barrel cut to 18+1/2" loaded with #2 buck that is about 34 pellets I think.Good for about 50 yards on the human kind and deer about 30.JMTCW
4/7/2004 1:54:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I beg to differ!! Something slow & big would be your best bet for home defense!
View Quote


Ummm, no.
4/7/2004 2:08:33 AM EDT
[#7]
Apparently there's a lot of guff being tossed around here about the "over-penetration" issues associated with the 223 round.

You fellars need to re-wander back over to the ammunition forum and re-read the [b]Ammo-Faq[/b] (especially the articles link'd there) and info tacked to the top of that forum.

Quite a few of ya are [b]dead wrong[/b] on this issue, and rather than point out the specifics, think ya should just bone up, that way ya won't look so incompetent.

Mike
4/7/2004 3:14:17 AM EDT
[#8]
As usual, mr_wilson is correct.  [:D]

RRA makes a nice rifle.  Go for it.
4/7/2004 4:26:00 AM EDT
[#9]
Instead of buying from Rock River, check out Steve at Adco: www.adcofirearms.com He has excellent service and very good RRA prices.

I picked up an RRA A4 Midlength Carbine upper from him a few months ago and I'm very pleased with it. It's MOA accurate with XM193 ammo and 100% reliable. The only caveat is it doesn't have a chrome bore or chamber.

4/7/2004 11:42:28 AM EDT
[#10]
[url]www.ammo-oracle.com[/url]

-Troy
4/8/2004 11:24:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Agreed gotta take issue with the over-penetration idea.  I was instrumental in changing our P.D. from shotguns over to the .223, while steering away from pistol-caliber carbines.   Most of my supporting info came from the FBI's exhaustive studies.  The .223 penetrates less than either 9mm/.40/.45 OR 12 ga.(including #00 buck), and pattern spread on buckshot is a liability.  Something like Hornady's TAP round is good if you're really fretting about penetration depth.  (And by the way, NOTHING does well through glass.)  Yet even with lower levels of penetration, the .223 can still penetrate body armor. Ironic?  The key is velocity.  Given that a minimum velocity is crucial, I was a little dismayed when our Police Chief decided to go "all-out" and buy us H&K G36K carbines with 12" barrels. All I wanted were some good ol' 16" AR-15's!  Anyway, sorry this thread wandered into an ammunition issue, but certain misconceptions need to be corrected.  
(P.S.  Yes the H&K's simplified gas system is nice, especially IF you're an armorer, but the AR-15 is still my favorite platform anyday.)
4/8/2004 3:55:46 PM EDT
[#12]
if your pricing around make sure to check out rbprecision.com   .they were the cheapest when i was shopping.
4/8/2004 7:18:11 PM EDT
[#13]
i bought one of those 16" midlength uppers from steve at adco too.super accurate on an Eagle lower.16" is a good length too i find.
4/8/2004 9:27:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Hey, Tex, you're the second to mention "mid-length".  I thought that phrase referred to the 18" barrel not the 16".  Am I wrong?  ADCO only list mid-length, I thought that meant 18".
4/9/2004 6:34:28 AM EDT
[#15]
I also recommend the midlength from ADCO. Steve can build you one with a chrome lined barrel if you prefer. If you have questions about .223/5.56 ammo performance check the Olympic Arms website. They have some excellent info there about this topic.
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