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Posted: 2/12/2004 11:38:46 AM EDT
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I'm looking for a Rail System for my ICS M4(It's airsoft). I'm hoping to find something that uses the original foregrip mounting system, but still has the long rail on the top that runs from front of foregrip to charging handle. The airsoft receiver is real-steel and mil-spec, so this should work. Thanks - Derrick EDIT: I have seen some that are "Free-Floating" does this mean that they in no way support the barrel, and are merely attached to the receiver. I've found some I'm interested in but due to the wording I'm a little hesitant. An airsoft barrel doesn't really have the strength to just sit out there by itself, i'm hoping these "Free-Floating" versions have some guides internal to the rails to keep the barrel from "wobbling". This probably isn't required for a real-steel firearm but it would be advantageous for airsoft. |
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ARMS SIR #50 or #58MOD [:)] This is a real-steel Colt rifle w/ a #50... [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/101251-big.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/101250-big.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/101246-big.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/101249-big.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/101252-big.jpg[/img] -Cap'n |
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Thanks, your pictures didn't work but I managed to find some online. That's exactly what I'm looking for. What's the difference between #50 and #58, and do these models make contact with the barrel(Offering some vertical support)? EDIT: Your pictures are working now. I can see the delta ring is kept intact, but how does it mount near the forward sight? |
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Quoted: Thanks, your pictures didn't work but I managed to find some online. That's exactly what I'm looking for. What's the difference between #50 and #58, and do these models make contact with the barrel(Offering some vertical support)? EDIT: Your pictures are working now. I can see the delta ring is kept intact, but how does it mount near the forward sight? No, the SIR is a free floating system, so it will not support your barrel at all past the upper reciever. I'm assuming your upper is a flat top correct? Also, when you say that you want the rail to run from the front of the fore grip to the charging handle, does that mean there can't be any gaps? If a small gap doesn't matter then you may want to try the [url=https://secure.valinet.com/~yankeeh/cgi-bin/web_store/web_store.cgi?page=forearms.html&&cart_id=6671083_13474]Yankee Hill Machine 2-piece 4-rail handguard YMH-9670[/url]. The only other foregrip like the SIR mentioned above is the Predator, but I believe that one is also FF and won't support your barrel, so you'll probably have to live with that small gap. You could always just buy a low profile rail that's the length of the upper and handguard combined and then mount it to the top of both, bridging that gap. There might be another one I'm unaware of though, but I don't think there is a non-FF one. What exactly do you need it to do anyway? Mounting optics? Something else? |
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Quoted: No, the SIR is a free floating system, so it will not support your barrel at all past the upper reciever. I'm assuming your upper is a flat top correct? Also, when you say that you want the rail to run from the front of the fore grip to the charging handle, does that mean there can't be any gaps? If a small gap doesn't matter then you may want to try the [url=https://secure.valinet.com/~yankeeh/cgi-bin/web_store/web_store.cgi?page=forearms.html&&cart_id=6671083_13474]Yankee Hill Machine 2-piece 4-rail handguard YMH-9670[/url]. There might be another one I'm unaware of though, but I don't think there is a non-FF one. What exactly do you need it to do anyway? Mounting optics? Something else? Thanks, I assumed that all SIR models were free floating, but I was hoping to find something that wasn't. My upper is a flat-top, currently a BSA 42mm RD is mounted to it. Oh and I need the SIR to mount my M203 of course, J/K. I think I'm going to go with the ARMS #50 or #58, what are the differences and what would you suggest. There will be atleast a tac light, and a sling mounted to the SIR. Probably a Bi-Pod and/or a vertical grip in the future. Honestly the main reason for I had for an SIR was preventative maintenance. Many airsoft M4 players complain of barrel wobble at some time. Mine is designed to minimise this but I was hoping that an SIR would be extra "insurance". SIDENOTE: I saw that KAC RAS II on the web, what do you think of this system. Oh and finally, in one of the pictures, it looks like the ARMS #58 makes for a tight fit with the front sight. Is it actually offering support, or just look that way? |
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The RAS II, and all SIR's will free float the barrel. The RAS or RIS will mount like the standard handguard, if you want a support rail to tie the handguard to the upper receiver you will need one of the ARMS #38-EX-MOD-L rails. this mounts to the upper and bolts to the top of the RAS. You can remove the lower half of the RAS and mount your launcher. This combo is the only one I know that will offer some barrel support. "picture borrowed from MSTN post" [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=1552[/img] furet |
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If I used an ARMS #58 how tight a fit is the front sight with the SIR? I mean if it's like a few mm, it wouldn't be a big deal. I was just looking at systems like the predator(haven't seen one mounted yet) and it appears the barrel would have a good inch of freespace around it before contacting anything. Right now that #38 with a RAS looks like a nice setup, but I really had my heart set on a "true" SIR. And what is the difference between an ARMS #50, #58, and #58 Modified? EDIT: #58 modified appears to be the version with the rails that surround the front sight. So right now this is the one I'm the most interested in. But still what is the difference between #50 and #58. Thanks again, you've all been such a help and I've almost made my decision - Derrick |
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Quoted: If I used an ARMS #58 how tight a fit is the front sight with the SIR? I mean if it's like a few mm, it wouldn't be a big deal. I was just looking at systems like the predator(haven't seen one mounted yet) and it appears the barrel would have a good inch of freespace around it before contacting anything. Right now that #38 with a RAS looks like a nice setup, but I really had my heart set on a "true" SIR. And what is the difference between an ARMS #50, #58, and #58 Modified? EDIT: #58 modified appears to be the version with the rails that surround the front sight. So right now this is the one I'm the most interested in. But still what is the difference between #50 and #58. Thanks again, you've all been such a help and I've almost made my decision - Derrick I just wanted to clarify something because after reading my post I can see where what I said might have been interpreted wrong. When I said that the Yankee Hill 2piece handguard has gaps I was talking about a gap between the upper and the hanguard, not betweent the barrel than the handguard. Since the YHM 2-piece is non-FF I would assume that means at the front of the handguard there is contact with the barrel and it will offer full support at that point. Just thought I'd mention that in case you decide that the SIR will not work for you. The YHM is also quite a bit cheaper too. You also mentioned the RASII. This one will not be flat all the way from the front of the handguard to the charging handle. There is a hump that sits over the gap between the hanguard and the upper. They are very good 4-rail handguards, but again they are FF and have large gaps between the bbl and handguard. I say that the SIR with the #58 mod or the YHM 2-piece is your best bet. And actually, you could probably get away with any of the YHM FF tubes as long as you put the [url=https://secure.valinet.com/~yankeeh/cgi-bin/web_store/web_store.cgi?page=forearms.html&&cart_id=3278411_14377]end cap YMH-9484-A, YMH-9484-B[/url] in there too. It says that the end cap still allows the bbl to be FF, but it looks like there is just a tiny gap between the end cap and bbl from the pictures. |
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Thank you, I did understand your first post and it is certainly a viable option for someone in my position. But the tolerances built into some of the FF rails are so tight, it might as well not be FF for an airsoft gun. I believe I'm going to go with the #58 mod, thanks for all your help. EDIT: Now that I've decided on the ARMS #58 mod, what are some of your favored retailers? |
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Quoted: Thank you, I did understand your first post and it is certainly a viable option for someone in my position. But the tolerances built into some of the FF rails are so tight, it might as well not be FF for an airsoft gun. I believe I'm going to go with the #58 mod, thanks for all your help. EDIT: Now that I've decided on the ARMS #58 mod, what are some of your favored retailers? [url]http://www.mstn.biz/ [/url] This is a good site. I don't see that specific mod listed on his site, but I'm sure you could order it. [url]http://www.eaglefirearms.net/ARMSnumber58mod.htm[/url] This is also another good site. I just ordered an RRA lower reciever from him and it came very quickly and he seems to have very good prices. I've heard a lot of other good comments about eaglefirearms from other members as well. |
| I've been looking around some more and what I'm really looking for is an A.R.M.S. #58 Mod. Commercial Version. Does this exist, I can't seem to find it anywhere but I have seen some places distinguishing their's as a "Military Version" this kind of suggests that there is a "Commercial Version" out there. |
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Quoted: I've been looking around some more and what I'm really looking for is an A.R.M.S. #58 Mod. Commercial Version. Does this exist, I can't seem to find it anywhere but I have seen some places distinguishing their's as a "Military Version" this kind of suggests that there is a "Commercial Version" out there. What's going on? Everyone here is being nice to an airsofter? Is a blizzard fast approaching the gates of Hell? [;D] well, back to the question at hand...no, there is no commercial #58MOD. The military models require the removal of the delta ring (the rear ring that holds the regular handguards in). In addition to that, the 58MOD also requires the removal of the front handguard cap. I am not sure how easy it is to do this on an airsoft or if it will interfere with the structural intyegrity of the barrel itself. They do make an airsoft SIR, but it is only available in the #45C model I believe. I am not sure if it is free floating or if it has special attachemnts to support the airsoft barrel. As far as any other types of rail systems, I am not sure if they can be easily fit to an airsoft as the dimensions of the stock barrel are often much different from the real thing. The easiest thing is to get an airsoft specific rail system. But I will admit, I don't have much experience with airsoft mods, so I don't know how difficult itr would be to adapt a real system to an airgun. Look into this carefully before you attempt to do it. It would be a shame to drop $400 on something that won't work. Here's a rundown of the SIRs if you are still wondering: #45=wide bodied, continuous rail, for carbine, both C & M models #46=slim-line, continuous rail, for carbine, C model only #50=slim-line, bi-level, for carbines, both C and M models #51=slim-line, bi-level for fixed carry handles, for carbines, C model only #58=slim line, bi-level, for midlength systems, M model only #58MOD=slim-line, bilelvel, for carbines, M model only #59=slim-line, bi-level, for rifles, M model only The M models require the removal of the delta ring. The #58MOD requires removal of the delta ring and the front handguard cap. The C models don't require removal of anything, but are only available in the #45, #46, #50, and the #51. The bi-levels have adaptors that can turn the bi-level rail into a continuos rail. The continuous rail models (#45 & #46) can have the front portion of the rail reversed to attach a PAQ4 laser. |
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Well in recent years, airsoft guns have become far more realistic. As far as barrel dimensions, my airsoft is as good as the real thing. The only real difference is in the way they mounted it to the receiver. I really had my hopes set on a #58MODC, but seeing as they don't make it I have to choose between a #50C and a #58MODM. Any suggestions? I was hoping for a commercial version because a military version will require me to alter my barrel nut. EDIT: The front handguard cap, is held on by a single screw and in now way affects the stability/usage of the barrel. |
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"Well in recent years, airsoft guns have become far more realistic." I just picked up a CA Armalite M4 (all metal), with the intent of doing some simple in home MOUT style gunnery training (simple target aquisition and shooting on the move, without destroying my house : ) Yeah, well the gun came and I was impressed, all aluminum and steel, very solid, same size and weight as an M4 but then I went to the gunshow in Milwaukee this weekend, trying to sell some stuff and picked up : a Beretta 92FS, Colt MK IV Series 80 (yeah I know screwed up trigger, whatever), and Thursday I bought a G-19 here and then it hit me... YOU ARE OUT OF MONEY. SHIT, well long story short I never even bought a battery for the airsoft gun and it is back up for sale along with one of my (real) M4s. Oh well... maybe some other time. (Now I can get in some 1911 training with my .22lr conversion kit on that POS series 80) Best show in years, people were everywhere buying things and I just got into the attitude and had to buy a few toys. [b]BEST PART: I MET A CLASS II WHO CAN DO MY TRANSFERS WHO IS ONLY 15 MINUTES FROM MY HOUSE!! NO MORE 3.5HOURS TO LAUER WEAPONRY!!!![/b] |
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Sorry for replying to such an old topic, but considering how much some of you helped me I thought you might like to see the finished project. The rifle is finished except for a new Pistol Grip that's coming in the mail. [img]http://phk.igamez.com/images/ICSM4_Left.jpg[/img] [img]http://phk.igamez.com/images/ICSM4_Right.jpg[/img] [img]http://phk.igamez.com/images/ICSM4_A_Left.jpg[/img] [img]http://phk.igamez.com/images/ICSM4_A_Right.jpg[/img] |
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