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5/31/2006 2:28:25 AM EDT
My gut feeling tells me that this is probably not do-able, but...

Does anyone know if it is legal to re-mark a lower reciever with a different manufacturer name?  I'm working on a build of an A1 clone of the gun I had in the Army, and it would be perfect if I could re-mark the reciever with Hydra-Matic markings.  

Anyone else think of this or look into this?  I don't think Hydramatic is in business any longer.  I would assume I'd have to keep the SN and original mfg. markings to meet ATF requirements.  I was thinking of putting the Hydramatic markings on the left side (with the real SN) and keeping the original mfg. markings on the right side.  



5/31/2006 5:08:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Pretty sure it id illegal.
5/31/2006 5:50:09 AM EDT
[#2]
As long as you don't sell it you would probably be fine.  Trademark infringement lawsuits are generally about gaining a commercial advantage from the trademark theft.

ETA: GM is most definitely still in business !! I am pretty sure the Hydramatic division still exists.

rj
5/31/2006 5:54:11 AM EDT
[#3]
I think it is not a question of trademark infringement but required info by ATF to be put on the receiver by the manufacturer.
5/31/2006 8:28:01 AM EDT
[#4]
ATFE regs require that the name, location, etc... of the original manufacturer be on the receiver.  To mark any lower with a name other than the original manufacturer requires a variance from ATFE to the actual manufacturer, who has to be the entity that puts the other entity's name on it....and the other entity has to have it go across their books, etc...So, in essence, it isn't something that you can do or have done without the actual entity(who's name is going to be on the receiver) being involved.
Steve/RRA
6/1/2006 1:32:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Figured that was the case.  I wonder if anyone could talk RRA into making some Hydramatic recievers under license from GMC?  
6/1/2006 5:09:04 PM EDT
[#6]
How about a HydrOmatic ?

rj
6/1/2006 7:43:43 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
ATFE regs require that the name, location, etc... of the original manufacturer be on the receiver.  To mark any lower with a name other than the original manufacturer requires a variance from ATFE to the actual manufacturer, who has to be the entity that puts the other entity's name on it....and the other entity has to have it go across their books, etc...So, in essence, it isn't something that you can do or have done without the actual entity(who's name is going to be on the receiver) being involved.
Steve/RRA



Those laws/regulations only apply to manufacturers.  I don't get the idea Pakieser is a manufacturer, so no worries there.

Far as Federal law goes, you can engrave “illegal firearm” on it, or weld up the silly animal logo, or drill it full of holes, and all this on the Sabbath if you so wish.  But, you may not mess with the serial number, or risk violating 18 USC Section 922(k).  Unlike others, say for example USC Section 922(r) this is a law that is enforced, and there are people in jail for violating it.

What you need to check is state and local laws.  In many states it is illegal to “deface” a firearm,

6/2/2006 6:17:31 AM EDT
[#8]
The first thought that comes is that, if you use a lower in which the manufacturers marking is further back on the side, like Bushmaster or DPMS, you could get rid of the logo portion up over the serial No, and put anything you wantind to on as a replacement.  And anything would be better than that damned snake or the sick looking cat.
6/2/2006 6:32:35 AM EDT
[#9]
you could get Tom Sawyer, Mfg. to make something up for you.  from what i hear his work is top notch.
6/2/2006 6:36:34 AM EDT
[#10]
It's probably illegal for Sawyer to do it. The owner might could do it hisself no problemo. A business entity doing for him probably breaks all the laws discussed above.

rj
6/3/2006 4:46:00 PM EDT
[#11]
While we're on the subject, I think it would be pretty neat to whip up a batch of Mattel A1 receivers.

I would have added the link to the rollmark section, but it appears that its not up yet.
6/3/2006 6:08:17 PM EDT
[#12]

From Black Rifle

I will buy one of those!

"Capt Richardson"
6/4/2006 5:31:01 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ATFE regs require that the name, location, etc... of the original manufacturer be on the receiver.  To mark any lower with a name other than the original manufacturer requires a variance from ATFE to the actual manufacturer, who has to be the entity that puts the other entity's name on it....and the other entity has to have it go across their books, etc...So, in essence, it isn't something that you can do or have done without the actual entity(who's name is going to be on the receiver) being involved.
Steve/RRA



Those laws/regulations only apply to manufacturers.  I don't get the idea Pakieser is a manufacturer, so no worries there.

Far as Federal law goes, you can engrave “illegal firearm” on it, or weld up the silly animal logo, or drill it full of holes, and all this on the Sabbath if you so wish.  But, you may not mess with the serial number, or risk violating 18 USC Section 922(k).  Unlike others, say for example USC Section 922(r) this is a law that is enforced, and there are people in jail for violating it.

What you need to check is state and local laws.  In many states it is illegal to “deface” a firearm,




I could be wrong here (I know that Ekie has much more experience in this area than me, and I respect his knowledge), but as I understand it, serial numbers do not stand alone - they go with a manufacturer ( e.g.,any manufacturer may have SN "0001" on their receiver, and there are probably dozens of receivers out here with this number on them). if the mfr's name and city/state are changed, the weapon is no longer identifiable in BATF's records, and I don't think they would like this!!  (If I am ignorant in this regard, I stand ready to be properly flamed).
6/4/2006 5:42:50 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
ATFE regs require that the name, location, etc... of the original manufacturer be on the receiver.  To mark any lower with a name other than the original manufacturer requires a variance from ATFE to the actual manufacturer, who has to be the entity that puts the other entity's name on it....and the other entity has to have it go across their books, etc...So, in essence, it isn't something that you can do or have done without the actual entity(who's name is going to be on the receiver) being involved.
Steve/RRA



Those laws/regulations only apply to manufacturers.  I don't get the idea Pakieser is a manufacturer, so no worries there.

Far as Federal law goes, you can engrave “illegal firearm” on it, or weld up the silly animal logo, or drill it full of holes, and all this on the Sabbath if you so wish.  But, you may not mess with the serial number, or risk violating 18 USC Section 922(k).  Unlike others, say for example USC Section 922(r) this is a law that is enforced, and there are people in jail for violating it.

What you need to check is state and local laws.  In many states it is illegal to “deface” a firearm,




I could be wrong here (I know that Ekie has much more experience in this area than me, and I respect his knowledge), but as I understand it, serial numbers do not stand alone - they go with a manufacturer ( e.g.,any manufacturer may have SN "0001" on their receiver, and there are probably dozens of receivers out here with this number on them). if the mfr's name and city/state are changed, the weapon is no longer identifiable in BATF's records, and I don't think they would like this!!  (If I am ignorant in this regard, I stand ready to be properly flamed).



Correct, ATF would not "like this", but no Federal law stopping you from doing it.

You can look it up yourself, the law is 18 USC Section 922(k), and it only mentions serial numbers, nothing else.
6/4/2006 5:46:46 PM EDT
[#15]
18 U.S.C. § 922(k): It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, anyfirearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive anyfirearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
6/4/2006 6:36:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Okay, so you can do it, but you just can't ship it across state lines after it's done.  It's the old interstate commerce BS all over again.  Similar to the restrictions on machine guns and other NFA weapons.
6/4/2006 7:13:43 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:
Okay, so you can do it, but you just can't ship it across state lines after it's done.



How you figure that?
6/4/2006 7:29:58 PM EDT
[#18]
So then, How bout a 100% self built Colt M4 clone lower?
6/4/2006 7:31:42 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
So then, How bout a 100% self built Colt M4 clone lower?



Please, no clones in the retro forum
6/4/2006 7:40:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Sorry!
How bout one of my 100% built lowers made into M-16 A1 style,including full markings? Thats retro, Isn't it?
6/4/2006 7:42:03 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:
Sorry!
How bout one of my 100% built lowers made into M-16 A1 style,including full markings? Thats retro, Isn't it?



I was just joking about the clones.... and that sounds realy cool. I want one.
6/5/2006 8:46:07 AM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sorry!
How bout one of my 100% built lowers made into M-16 A1 style,including full markings? Thats retro, Isn't it?



I was just joking about the clones.... and that sounds realy cool. I want one.



It's alot of work & I am probally going recountor a RRA lower for my next retro.
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