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Posted: 6/1/2007 1:05:34 PM EDT
Recently got 2 cans of this stuff (SG sold out now).... It came in plain ammo cans (no writings) with a Lake City wire seal intact. The ammo was in bandoleers, strippers, had cip guides, etc... just like "Grade 1" stuff is described in the Ammo reviews and just like I remember it from "back in the day". Headstamps are 00 and 01, I beleive.SG sold this as Lake City M855 (nowhere in the ad were PD or XM mentioned) The rounds look pretty and it shoots great (240 rounds so far, zero probs out of a 20" and a pair of 16").... My curiosity is piqued, because Zhukov's post indicates this stuff should not exist. XM is boxed, and PD is loose...... The only 2 oddities I observed were these: 1. The can is unmarled in any way and it appears the usual stenciled painted writing had been removed. 2. The lot numbers on the bandos were crossed out with a fat Sharpie...... yet the Lake City seal appeared intact on both cans. What have I got here? Stolen Ammo? It was certainly NOT priced like any kind of reject..... |
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My first thought is that it sounds to me that someone at the ASP (Ammunition Supply Point) was in a position to do some substantial "midnight" trading. That would explain the destroyed lot numbers but not the manufacturer's lead seal being intact. Years ago I tried to remove the yellow nomenclature on an ammo can for whatever reason and I remember it was a bitch....plus the can wasn't pretty afterwards. I wonder, do these cans look pristine (as if they were never imprinted with nomenclature), or do they look like they've been messed with? The road I'm going down here is this: How difficult would it be for "someone" to take a given quantity of PD or any type of bulk seconds and sit down and put the ammo on good strippers and then pack it up nice and neat like a packing plant would? How hard would it be to duplicate a Lake City lead & wire seal? I would think any experienced, creative hand-loader who molds his own bullets could duplicate a factory seal with ease. Would the financial gain of selling "current issue" (or "true" USGI) be such that it would be well worth all this effort to replicate (implied) "Tier 1" USGI ammo? Hmmmmmmm.....inquiring Bears would be interested in knowing.....  I think we would all agree that there is plenty of like-new packaging material available out there to be able to pull this off. I myself have seen what appeared to be brand new unused ammo cans for sale at gun shows that were NOT imprinted with nomenclature. But again, the question remains; Are the financial rewards enough to offset the labor that would be necessary to pull this off? Just my thoughts folks (and for the record, I don't believe in Black Helicopters, Alien Abductions, or other wild-assed conspiracy theories, nor am I a member of the Tinfoil Hat Club......But I have stayed in a Holiday Inn  ).Bear 
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The yellow markings on the my most recently purchased ammo cans come right off with acetone, while leaving the green paint in good shape. |
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I bought 2 cans of this M855 from SG when I first got the new buyers club catalogue. I recieved it and 1 can had the markings removed on the outside and the other can was complete with markings. All seals were intact and I recieved exactly the way I would recieve it when I was in the Marine Corps. The internal packaging was perfect with lot numbers blacked out on the bandoliers. Each bandolier came with a speed loader. All the rounds are stamped LC with the date and NATO cross. I fired about 200 rounds of it so far and it is perfectly good for ball issue ammo. www.ammoman.com used to have this stuff alot. He hasnt had any for sale in a while. I emailed him about it and he said with the 2 wars going on it is tough to get this stuff. Everyone is buying it up. I saw this stuff on for sale at SG and jumped on it. The price was good for what it is. The plus side is the good brass you get to reload it. From what I read on this Forum...i had no idea it could not be purchased as a civilian thanks to freakin Clinton. Maybe I will take some pictures of it and post them |
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My cans definitely has markings at one time... you can still see faint traces of yellow on the side.... This packing was too "perfect" for someone faking it with PD in his garage. The bandos were wrapped all identical, the clip guides were in the same pocket of every bando, inserted with the same orientation.... all the carboard spacers were where they should be..... Trust me, I spent 20 years as a 1C2 in the AF -- I've cracked open plenty of M855 cans and I can tell you that this packing job is factory..... So, that still leaves a mystery...... Other than SG not being crooks (i.e. I'm not accusing them of being a part of any funny business) -- I think FreBear's on the right track.... except I think they swiped "real" M855 cans, opened them, crossed out numbers, carefully repacked, wiped paint off the can.... faking the seal too as you said.... hell, they could have stolen the sealer too -- its just a pliers-like tool with a die in the jaw. I hope this is it because it means then I have real M855.  I wonder if they got caught, then...and that's why its all gone...This is something I think Federal would want to keep quiet... It will be interesting to see if this stuff shows up again...... Of course, it could have been some mob guys hijacked a truck full of M855 cans bound for Uncle Sam and did all the above... in which case its probably all gone for good.... Think about it.... what else besides drugs can you steal that's in critically high demand (5.56 ammo is almost as liquid as cash now), is the size of an ammo can, and can yield you a guaranteed $350+ in profit, and is not too traceable or regulated like a weapon? Either way, its fun to speculate... I just wondered with all the people with "connections" hanging around here if anyone knew for sure.... |
| Ammoman was selling this ammo back in late 05 I believe. It was advertised as front line M855--Buy two cans and get them in the sealed crate. I bought a crate and it had a seal on it but the cans were cleaned of markings and the lot numbers on the bandos was blacked out with marker. The ammo looked fine and even though I have not shot any (it's in my stash) all the range reports on it at the time were fine. I really expected to get cans that were properly marked for M855 ammo etc. and properly marked bandos. I really cannot say what you got but I can say it's not stolen. I doubt if it's front line because of the lack of markings. This is one mystery that won't be solved. |
I bought a can of ammoman's stuff, no problems whatsoever. I saved some of it and now use the strippers loaded with some of that guat surplus. |
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I have three sealed wood crates of the stuff from Ammoman. I cracked one open to inspect it and the cans looked like they never had markings as opposed to markings having been removed. The bandoleers were not marked out, and the lot #'s match the paper lot # tag stapled to the outside crate. As for the rest, I too have cracked open many a crate of M855, and this stuff did not raise any suspicions with me. And speaking of sealed ammo, who here got in on the sealed cardboard cases packed only in sleeves and strippers from ADCO?  I got one and that stuff is very nice.
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Then go away, you don't belong here. 
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