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Posted: 3/14/2007 10:04:51 AM EDT
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I've seen a lot of people talking about Red Box Hornady TAP ammo and Black Box Hornady TAP ammo. What is the difference? How can you tell which bullet you're getting other then just the weight. Why is it that Hornady only list .223 and not 5.56mm in their website? Are any of these cases crimped primer cases? All the black cases I see at the range look really rough, is there an advantage to the nickle plate cases? Just looking for some guidance. -DK |
Red box is the 5.56X45 LEO ammo, Black box is the 223 civie ammo. |
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So why doesn't Hornady list their 5.56 on their web site? If there is no difference between the two please tell me now and ignore the rant to follow. Does LEO ammunition mean that it works better or that the rest of their ammo doesn't work at all? Does anyone know what the real difference is between the LEO stuff and the civi stuff? If it's just velocity tell me which bullet they use and I'll buy Hornady brass (or better yet Lapua) and hand load it. If its a proprietary bullet design then why can't I buy it too? My old complaint with government only products is either they are better then civilian equivalents or they are cheaper then civilian. If Cheaper I don't care, I just want better. If they are better then why am I not allowed access to the same product if I'm willing to pay the going rate for the same amount? If they say, "Well we only sell it by the metric ton", ok I'll get a few guys together and we'll get it. But if it’s because they don't want the good ammo from falling into the "wrong" hands, THAT makes me mad. It should make you mad too. They are saying we are not responsible citizens. Just because I want good ammo doesn't mean I'm a bad person. Anyone agree with me? |
This has only been gone over about 100 times and yet we still have people posting misinformation. It is sooo aggrivating. A simple search of the last 30 days posts would answer the question. There is Red Box Civilian .223 (old no longer made) Black Box FPD (same as above with nickle case for marketing purposes and supposedly easier extraction but I doubt that) There is .223 LE only ammo (red box) There is 5.56 LE only ammo (red box) All use the same bullet save the 5.56 bullet which is its own special ogive designed for reliable feeding from M4 feed ramps. LE ammo is less expensive and deletes the needless "marketing" plating to save money. The 5.56 is LE only and requires both LE credantials and a signed waiver you wont shoot it in .223 chambers. It is not offered to civilians because someone would sue Hornady after having a problem shootig it in .223 chambers and they cant force all America to sign the waiver. You cant buy the T2 bullet as a reloading component. You cant get the accuracy and velocity of the Hornady 5.56 load by reloading and using commercial powders. All the others are the same velocity pretty much (.223 pressure loads) and you can get the regualr cannelured 75 grain OTM easily. I really could care less if you get pissed off at a company who does not want to deal with the liability concerns of the high pressure ammo. It is the comany's decision and it is understandable. They dont care if other compaines sell 5.56 pressure ammo. Perhaps it will change. The only reason Hornady does not offer the 5.56 ammo to people who would sue them. So be pissed at people who are stupid and lawsuit happy, not Hornady. Oh, and the 5.56 ammo has a crimp on the primer as all 5.56 ammo does. The members here bought some pallets of the 5.56 ammo through an LE officer and the cost was less than you can currently find the .223 pressure ammo for. Sorry you missed out. Here is one of the pallets.  Feel free to get an LE officer to order up many thousands of rounds and IM us if you can get some at a good price. LE price is about $110 per 200. |
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Well that answered my questions. I did a 30 day search for TAP, but only two posts were listed and neither addressed my questions. I guess I need to have much wider search parameters. I can understand the need to keep magnum loads in magnum chambers, but I should be able to sign the waiver if I take responcibility. It's a matter of personal pride. I'm not giving it up but at least I see there is a point. Final question and this thread can die. What is a LEO? Only individuals with arrest powers? Do retired officers count? Probation Officers? What about District Attorney's? in Georgia they are considered LEO's but not nationally. Military, retired military? Does a department have to order or can Officer Bob have them sent to his house? Hornady's web site ask for a badge number just to get a catalogue. I'm used to jumping through hoops, what gun owner isn't... One final point, if Hornady is so concerned about people blowing up their guns with the wrong ammo why are they the worlds leader of reloading compnents? Surely that is more risky then selling ammo labled for a particular chamber and used in the wrong chamber... (I'm not trying to be obnoxious, it just bugs me honest.) |
Because they have absolutely no control of how their components are used. When the lawyers figure out how to blame them, goodbye to that too. And it has nothing to do with "magnum" loads. |
I wonder, if at that point, an LEO can then sell privately to the public. That's what happened in the deal referenced above. I'd assume the "liability" would then rest with the LEO since Hornaday has such a policy in place... ....Sad part is, someone would put this stuff through their new Bushmaster Predator. |
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