How many rounds until an AR15 is considered reliable?

Same as a pistol, 500 without failure.

What I go by

Soon as someone get's there we'll let you know.  

3-4 range trips which is normally about 4-500 rounds.

I do not count mag induced failures as long as i can prove it is the mag though.

IMO a well built rifle should at least go through 1000-1500rds with no additional cleaning or additional lube after the initial maintenance/lubing and after the "break in" period.
I don't personally believe in "break in" period since I've yet to have any guns that won't function well after unboxing...YMMV.

With my own experience/testing, I would say an AR15 should probably be fine after firing 3000-5000rds with no maintenance after initial maintenance.
Below is my SR15 Mod1 after 3350rd with no additional oil or care, and I've had another Mod1 with a bit over 5k with no care/no oil that performed flawless.
I am confident any well built AR15 rifle could do it.

Gross.

Not sure what exact standards to use for reliability except that if you have a gun you've shot a bit and expect it to always fire and it always does. And if it's 99.999% and I come across that .001, I'm actually fine with that too. Shit happens and I don't know of anything else with that great of odds.

To help ensure reliability... buy quality (real quality), ensure it runs optimally to the best of your ability, maintain it well (clean, oiled), use good mags and ammo, and test it initially with a decent amount of rounds out.

I know, I know. All these budget guns are as good or better than all the high dollar ones, etc etc. And they work much better when they aren't ever cleaned. Blah blah blah.

Honestly, a couple hundred rounds. Then I keep shooting it as time goes by. 200 rounds through a quality gun and I'm feeling confident.

Yep, run her 'till she stops.  Clean it, oil it. Good to go

Other factors include ammo quality, shooting conditions(weather humidity, temp), .cal, rate of fire, build, quality of parts etc.

mags


Break in periods are not necessary for AR's, you're more likely to have problems with ammo or mags than the rifle.  If the rifle is put together correctly and goes through the first 5 rounds fine, why would you have problems with any more rounds?

No firearm is 100% reliable, ever; if you have one you *think* is 100%, it just hasn't failed YET.
So with that said, if I can shoot 10 factory boxes of ammo through it without a failure, I'm good.
I also shoot what will sit in it for HD or carry.

Assuming you mean reliable enough to trust for home defense or other scenarios where lives are in the balance, I consider it to be "reliable" after it's been through a multi day carbine class or something of equal or greater challenge.

It is all personal preference.

I am fine with 60 rounds of perfect function. I am pretty sure chance of failure goes up the more rounds are put through the gun. There is no guarantee that it won't fail on the next round. Whether it is round 61 or round 6,001.

That is literally like buying a nice new car and then not changing the oil and filter for the first 50k miles because you want to see how tough the motor is.

TRUTH

Some of you guys are quoting some pretty low round counts.  There are many potential issues that will only show up once the weapon has gotten hot enough for parts to expand.  Other issues that won't show up until the parts have gotten hot enough to expand then allowed to cool down and contract.  Still other issues that will show up after it's done the above and gotten a little dirty inside.  

I don't consider a rifle reliable until I hit about 1k without any hiccups and this is with steel (various kinds) and brass.  I want to know my rifle will shoot anything I feed it and in any conditions and with no cleanings up to this point.

Is there evidence to support this theory?

It is a machine. At some point it will fail regardless of reliability. Periodic maintenance is much more important for reliability than arbitrary round expenditure.

My AR's have all been good. Some have more rounds than others.

Now my Sig 229 had issues that weren't very apparent initially. With these low round counts they wouldn't have realized there was a real problem with the gun.

Suppressed CQBR type rifle, 3000+ and counting and never a fail to feed or fire or eject.  Cleaned every 500 or so, and lubed using LSA

In his defense, if it starts to choke he can disassemble, clean, reassemble and lube.  The thing will function fine after that.  You wouldn't be able to do that with a car.

I also believe being that dirty will increase the probability of a failure.

Pretty cool pictures with all that being said.

Year 1 first AR- OMG I shot 20 rounds I get to clean my AR!

Year 2- fuuuuuck I don't want to clean this thing today.

But still, that's a little over the top, kiddsf.
I suppose if it's just a range gun it doesn't matter at all though.

I imagine there is a ton of truth to that, and consequently a large number of AR's
may or may not be "reliable" and their owners will never really know.
You see the same thing with most modified cars.  No real shame in it
imo, money is money.

Every time I build an AR I run it in a carbine class, after that I consider it reliable.

I've slowly gone the route of every 500-1000 rds before cleaning unless it's my CCW gun. I'll clean that after use typically.... typically...

some people use their ARs like tools and not porcelain to be polished.  Sometimes I get the feeling that many on this site are more interested in how 'pretty' their rifles are vs how effective/reliable they are.  It's like metrosexualism has infected the black rifle community.  What's next, 'should I get reduced wait take down pins?'  lol...not saying you, just an observation

in full disclosure, I'd clean that puppy

Thanks for both the positive and semi-negative comments.

I am simply curious to know how 'reliable' my rifles are without any cleaning and without any additional oil.
We've all seen that a well built AR will continue to function for a LONG TIME as long as it is lubed, but hardly do we see any information about a gun's reliability without oil.

I am a curious person...
Those rifles I tested are mine...
I can do what I like to things that belongs to me...
I took pics and shared my findings...

I respect your opinion, and perhaps you can at least value my 'opinion' and findings as well?

Pretty much this...
It is definitely a range gun/testing gun.
I got pretty lazy with my old cleaning schedule and decided to do the 'dry & dirty' test.

You know, I have heard that "it's a tool" thing before, a lot.
I have a lot of tools, way more than guns, have had them way longer too.
I also clean my tools.  I will drop an expensive ratchet on the concrete when
I need a hand free and I don't care if it gets scratched up, but I don't leave
it full of sand and crud for long either.  I oil them so they don't rust, etc, etc, etc.
I can't help but thinking when people say they use a gun "like a tool" that
they either don't have many tools, or they are a construction worker.
Cause those guys are so brutal on everything they are all just temporary tools
till it's time to buy another.  I've got tools I've had since I was eight years old and
still use them.  I have very expensive measuring devices that live in padded cases
that are technically tools, and they live in a tool-box even, but they don't get treated
even remotely like "tools" in the firearms-community sense of the word.  But they are
still tools.

All that said, I get a kick out of seeing dirty rifles, not like these are super rare or anything, it's
just another AR.  Rock on I say.  I treat mine like all my other guns except for my Fathers
.22 he had when he was a kid, much like my ratchet.  If it needs to get scratched in the
course of doing what it's made to do for a living, fine, but I'm not going to abuse the thing
with a lack of maintenance if I have a choice unless I have a reason to think a particular example
might behave differently than others.

I also think the ability to function dirty/dry is a totally different (but completely valid) kind of reliability from basic
functional "reliability".  This is a pretty universal machine thing, you hear "it's very reliable just don't forget to (insert
whatever caveat here for a given machine), which is totally different than say, a 77 chevy pickup that will rust out from
under you before anything of much note fails mechanically.  Another semi-related and interesting irony, is
the former of those two examples will be much easier to find in good condition for a longer time since they either
are maintained, or they don't function.  You see a lot of ratty old mercedes diesels and volvo's and chevy trucks
because they can be ratty and still function.  I can't think of a firearms related example but I'm sure there
is one.

sorry, you know sometimes intent and meaning doesn't translate well via message boards.  I did not mean anything negative to you at all, was more of an off the cuff observation in general.  I am one of those guys that does not clean some rifles after every trip and have on dissy at 3k plus with no cleaning (a beater I'm working till it stops) and looks like yours

no mean spirited anything by me meant my friend

It's as reliable as the asshole attachment on the stock. It's a machine. It will fail.  More importantly, what are you going to do about it?   Sure, you can mitigate failure rate with proper cleaning, lubrication, part/manufacturer  selection but the only way to keep it "failure free" is to never shoot it.  Learn how to manage through malfunctions and you won't have to fear it so much.

Your comment is the positive comment I previously quoted, I can definitely tell your comment is positive.
The 'semi-negative' comments are the two above your post.

Sorry about the confusion

no worries my friend

My personal "best" was 1800 rounds of straight wolf in a non-chrome lined RRA upper back when wolf was $1.5 a box. Not a single stoppage and it was really nasty

I rarely ever have reliability problems with AR15s, I've had a certain other rifle that is allegedly uber reliable go down more on me than AR15s.

When a weapon has malfunctions with any amount of frequency then its no longer reliable. I don't count rounds for my duty weapons but I generally expect them to perform flawlessly. I don't clean on X number of rounds. I inspect and clean when it appears to be dirty, it got wet, etc.


If I go to the range and put a few mags through my rifle I'll check the bolt and see what it looks like. Sometimes a quick wipe down with an oily rag then a few drops is all (hell same goes for my Glock). All in all I probably clean every 300-500 rounds on average. However under normal shooting conditions shooting decent ammo I expect both my guns to function flawlessly for the entire day. Regardless of if I'm shooting 2 round or 2000 rounds. I don't shoot crappy/dirty ammo though so  thats a factor as well I suppose.


Throughout my career I've been issued two Glock 40s and 2 AR's (Bushmaster's). I've never had a malfunction that wasn't purposely induced for training purposes with the AR's. With the Glocks I'd say same save some experimental stuff trying to see when it'd fail when limp-wristing. From what I've seen the vast majority of malfunctions are either user induced or are due to faulty mag.


I hate cleaning guns but also hate a rusty/nasty dirty gun.

I'm so met-rifle-sexual that I properly lubricate my guns.

As a side test out of curiosity, good work. As a testament to KAC firearms, good work.

Lots of bad shit happens to a hard use gun. Scrapes, drops, dirt, dust, mud, blood, explosions, gunshots, etc.

But I would challenge you to find a time outside of sustained automatic fire (that will melt the barrel first), that you wouldn't be able to squirt a bit of CLP into the BCG. Anything less would be pure operator negligence.

I would be more interested to see the level of wear compared to your rifle on a properly lubricated gun.

Well, I use to own 4 SR15 Mod1(1 for Monday, 1 for Tuesday, 1 for bathroom,etc), but I've since sold my 'worn out' Mod1 earlier this year to another KAC member, who then sold to GenofromReno, who is a big time KAC collector.... I wonder how the upper is doing...
Here is the post I've made of the rifle after it had 11,700rds

I did occasional lubing in the rifle mentioned in that thread, about every 2k-5k.... you can see the upper receiver really did hold up well.
I didn't take any pics of the lower since there's pretty not much to show.

The current test gun(as shown in the pics from last page) does show more finish wear inside the upper receiver due to lack of oil, however, IMO it is not that bad...

However, the barrel in that rifle is a bit worn out...
Almost all round fired through that rifle were rapid fire/mag dumps.
Of the 11,700rd(actually 12,500rds towards the end of the thread), exactly 4,000rds fired were steel case bimetal bullet Russian ammo, all mag dumps.

With my current 'testing' SR15 Mod1 already had 9350rds of brass cased copper jacketed ammo(M193 & Mk262 clones) fired through the barrel with no sign of rifling wear, I am certain it was the bimetal ammo in the previous test I did that killed the barrel... just like in LuckyGunner's ammo comparison test.

Again, this is a testament to KAC reliability. Were there any failures of any kind? Double feed, stovepipe, etc in all of those rounds? If not, very impressive.

I just want to make sure other people reading this thread realize that NOT lubing an AR is not a good idea and can adversely affect performance of the gun.

edit- I also want to add that reliability really comes from proper parts. Lubrication is just a way of protecting those parts from wear and to protect the firearm during operation. Just like how oil protects an engine by not allowing carbon to collect and to help the parts slide easier. An interesting test would be a side by side comparison of identical rifles, one with lube one without....until failure.

Neither the old Mod1 or the current Mod1 in their respective 'tests' had any failure.
All of the SR rifles I have had been flawless from day 1

I would like to mention again, I really do believe any quality AR15 will be able to do this...
The only main difference in a SR15 is the E3 bolt, which is well know for the durability.
In terms of reliability, I think it will be the same as any quality standard dimension AR15 bolt, just my opinion of course.