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Posted: 1/1/2010 9:12:11 PM EDT
| See the poll... |
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Quoted:
Bad poll question. Factory Special Weapons vs "garage build" with BCM, Spikes, Colt, Noveske etc etc etc components? Or factory KAC, Noveske, Colt etc vs Blackthorne kit? and who is in the garage building it? Some douche or someone that knows what they are doing??? |
| I'd put money on a factory Colt over Fred the accountant's first build, no matter what parts he is using. Otherwise i'd call it a statistical dead heat. Many people who choose nicer stuff have already built up a few with lesser parts and by now have a better grasp on what works right for them and hopefully, how to assemble one |
| I own a factory-stock S&W M&P15 and a "built" RRA. The lower was a complete M4 style and the upper was bought assembled on EE with a PK Arms upper with A1 sights, fwd assist and brass deflector, gov't profile barrel, MP BCG, basically a complete upper. I took off the CAR buffer tube and put on an A2 stock, slapped that Frankengun mofo together and it shoots just as well as my stock M&P. Did I build it from parts? Not completely. But I consider it "built" because it wasn't purchased as a whole gun. |
| There seems to be plenty of dealers here that are putting out "garage builds". I mean if you really look at it. How many of the dealers here with their own parts actually mfg. those parts. So in essence, they are building up rifles using others parts, marked for their particular business, and doing what anyone with the proper tools and know how can do. Now, with this in mind, one would also need to consider warranties. |
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As was pointed out, one question really doesn't tell the whole story. Experience matters, picking the right parts matters. Also, how do you qualify a rifle as a "home built"? One guy goes through the used parts bin at a gun show fishing for the cheapest parts he can find while another buys a complete quality lower and upper from well respected vendors. Does that second rifle count as a "home built" because someone pushed two pins though?
Its a nice discussion to have however. It brings out a lot of issues and thoughts about just what "home built" really means and also the issue of the fact that all parts are not created equal. Good points here for the newer builders in the group to think about. |
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Like anything in life, it depends?
A "garage" built AR built by someone who knows what they are doing and using quality componants will generally run with or ahead of any "factory" built AR. On the other hand, a first time builder using M1S parts (or other low buck parts kit) will quite possible have less then stellar results. Building AR's is not hard but there are somethings you have to know\watch out for and make sure are done right. Beyond that, its all about the componants. Good parts will likely produce a good rifle. Shit parts make for a shitty rifle. The most critical part IMO is the barrel as it affects many aspects of the overall build (not just accuracy). |
If the (quality) upper came complete with barrel installed, dead-heat. It's REALLY hard to FUBAR assembling a lower. I installed a trigger for Chrissake  . But I've personally seen some really WECSOG upper assembling going on with family members that will remain unnamed.
Not to say that peeps on the sight don't know what they're doing (I know some of you REALLY do), but there's a lot of idiocy out there. |
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i roll my own with quality parts or buy a complete factory rig from a quality manufacturer. i wouldn't generally trust another guys *home* build based on HIS opinion of it's performance. i just don't trust that many people. if the *build* is a Noveske upper on an LMT lower i wouldn't really call it a build and it should be good to go. if it's a true kit gun with some parts from who knows where i would shy away from it. to answer the question: both could have issues, both could run just fine. the quality of the parts and the builder matter most in both cases. |
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I've said it before, but WHO, exactly, do you think is assembling your factory rifle? I'm sure some of the low volume custom rifles are lovingly assembled by expert personel, but my aquaintence with some "builders" from a Tier 1, high volume manufacturer serves only to reinforce my trust in ME! Your $2500 dollar rifles are being assembled by high school drop-outs with 0 gun knowledge, and no gun interest, for just over minimum wage. Here's your station, here's your parts bin, you do this part and pass it on. I'm quite sure the parts are A+, and there is certainly a quality control person inspecting the finished prouduct, but I see no reason to pay a premium price for their services. As long as I can buy suitible parts for my rifles intended purpose, I feel much more comfortable with my OWN building skill. I have a much greater interest in getting everything perfect than the factory guys I know.
Certainly my ancedotal and solitary experience is not definative or even representative of the industry, but ask WHY do you place faith in a factory rifle? Have you been to the factory? Met the builders? How's their quality control? Who supplies their parts? How much is in house and how much is outsourced? Whats the median experience of their assemblers? Why not yourself? Kinda like buying your meat at the grocery store, some people prefer not to think about the death, blood, stench of the warm gut pile, the messy cutting and chopping, but rather just purchase a nice, cold shiny package of someone elses dirty work. Now go eat your sausage and fondle your Colt! 
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Quoted:
There seems to be plenty of dealers here that are putting out "garage builds". I mean if you really look at it. How many of the dealers here with their own parts actually mfg. those parts. So in essence, they are building up rifles using others parts, marked for their particular business, and doing what anyone with the proper tools and know how can do. Now, with this in mind, one would also need to consider warranties. I agree.....that seems to be the norm.......I been in the AR-15 game for a little over twenty years now.......I have owned a ton of them and purchased only one complet rifle......a Colt 6601.......I bought for investment purposes before the clinton ban........the rest were all garage/kitchen table builds........... |
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It would depend on what you considered a good mfg. Also, there is very little that is difficult with assembling the gun, with proper tools, that can be screwed up if the end user can competently maintain it. Point being, if the builder is capable of maintaining a colt, from NIB to 6000 rounds down range, I dont see why there would be an issue with it. If the end user couldnt keep the brand new colt running after they maintained it, I wouldnt trust them to do much of anything. What astonishes me is the total lack of basic mechanical skills most people exhibit.
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Quoted:
All depends on who is doing the building and what parts are being used. Agree, does the factory lapp the front of the upper to be square with the bore? Don't think so. How particular are they with centering the gas tube? Not as picky as I am I'll bet. Every one of my builds has the extractor upgrade and a one piece gas ring. I know they all don't do that either. (some disagreement weather the one piece gas ring matters, but I like them) |
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Quoted:
I've said it before, but WHO, exactly, do you think is assembling your factory rifle? I'm sure some of the low volume custom rifles are lovingly assembled by expert personel, but my aquaintence with some "builders" from a Tier 1, high volume manufacturer serves only to reinforce my trust in ME! Your $2500 dollar rifles are being assembled by high school drop-outs with 0 gun knowledge, and no gun interest, for just over minimum wage. Here's your station, here's your parts bin, you do this part and pass it on. I'm quite sure the parts are A+, and there is certainly a quality control person inspecting the finished prouduct, but I see no reason to pay a premium price for their services. As long as I can buy suitible parts for my rifles intended purpose, I feel much more comfortable with my OWN building skill. I have a much greater interest in getting everything perfect than the factory guys I know. Certainly my ancedotal and solitary experience is not definative or even representative of the industry, but ask WHY do you place faith in a factory rifle? Have you been to the factory? Met the builders? How's their quality control? Who supplies their parts? How much is in house and how much is outsourced? Whats the median experience of their assemblers? Why not yourself? Kinda like buying your meat at the grocery store, some people prefer not to think about the death, blood, stench of the warm gut pile, the messy cutting and chopping, but rather just purchase a nice, cold shiny package of someone elses dirty work. Now go eat your sausage and fondle your Colt! Have you been there?? I have been to the Colt factory in 1999 and there staff was superb. The guys i have spoke to at BCM and DPMS all seem to know there stuff. Same at Larue. I am sure there are some exceptions but your description seems just as speculative as you yourself assume others to be. |
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To be fair.....we can say that garage built rifle can be amatuerish or professional grade.
However....many factory complete rifles come Pro-grade and built. Some come low-grade built. Companies matter too...as to what parts they use and how good they are at what they do, just like individuals who put things together by parts themselves. |
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It depends . . .
If you have above average mechanical aptitude, the willingness and ability to read and follow instructions and pay attentiion to detail, and you take your time, then you can do it as well as or better than an assembler at Colt, LMT, BCM, etc.––just not as quickly. I firmly believe that. That said, I think the data existed, it would show a lot more variability in the quality of home builds compared to ARs from any of the reputable manufacturers. There's a lot to be said for the standardized production and QC processes of Colt, LMT and the like. There are too many half assed hacks out there just slapping things together for the average garage build to compete with the average production gun. My $0.02, FWIW. YMMV. |
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