AR Sponsor
Posted: 12/20/2012 11:37:03 AM EDT
|
Ok, I have a Bushmaster AR15. (XM15E2S)
It came with an HBAR barrel, but with the handguards on looks like a regular 20" barrel with bayonet lug. I bought a new barrel for it, and took it to my local gunsmith to swap out the barrel. After about a week, my gunsmith called telling me that he could NOT remove the barrel. He said that the barrel nut would not come off. It was too tight. He said he could try freezing it in a freezer to see if shrinking the metal would help it come loose. I got a call from him the next day saying that even after the AR was very frozen, it would still NOT come off. He said he even feared damaging the upper receiver if he would use anymore force. He even said some of the "fingers" or ribbing on the barrel was starting to break off or bend. Any ideas about what I should do? I'm really worried this can be a major problem. |
|
I'm not going to take my AR to another
gunsmith only to have him tell me the same thing or worse, destroy my AR trying to remove the barrel. My gunsmith is a pretty competent guy. Idk what to do. I'm certainly not going to send it back to the factory only to wait a year to get it back. |
|
They may have used lock tight instead of moly grease. Has he tried HEATING the nut and removing it?
If I REALLY wanted to get a barrel nut off and it was impossible to get off, I would hit it with a dremel cut off wheel VERY carefully on each side and try to essentially cut it in half with a whack of a chisel. But I am a redneck. ETA or just buy a new upper and install the new barrel in it and have two uppers on one lower. |
|
Quoted:
I'm not going to take my AR to another gunsmith only to have him tell me the same thing or worse, destroy my AR trying to remove the barrel. My gunsmith is a pretty competent guy. Idk what to do. I'm certainly not going to send it back to the factory only to wait a year to get it back. not being able to get the barrel nut off says otherwise |
|
Quoted:
Does anyone have any other suggestions? Sending it back to the factory is my last resort. When I removed my RRA barrel nut it was probably around 90lbs and was a bitch to remove. With a good solid wrench and a quality clam shell your smith should be able to remove it. If it is a case where the maker did not use any moly or anything that it may be EXTREMELY hard to remove. My vote is still lock tight. This thread may give some insight. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone have any other suggestions? Sending it back to the factory is my last resort. When I removed my RRA barrel nut it was probably around 90lbs and was a bitch to remove. With a good solid wrench and a quality clam shell your smith should be able to remove it. If it is a case where the maker did not use any moly or anything that it may be EXTREMELY hard to remove. My vote is still lock tight. This thread may give some insight. It is a brand new AR that was made in Bushmaster's factory. I don't think Bushmaster puts lock tight on their factory ARs. |
|
Quoted:
I'lll call him tomorrow and ask him to use heat. If that doesn't work, then I don't know what options I have left. If these were "normal" times I would say leave it and buy a new upper (use your old one for another project some day)…. How much is your guy charging? By the time you pay him to deal with this stubborn nut it probably wouldn't be much more for a new stripped upper…. Then you could see if a member was around you to help put your new barrel together. Unfortunately with the current climate good luck finding an upper and if you do its probably not going to be a reasonable price…But you could look I guess…. I too would be careful with the nut. If the upper breaks its not like you can just order a new one. You will be shit out of luck at least for a little while…. 
|
(and that would be a good excuse to build another lower)
had same issue with my friends bushmaster about a month ago , honestly i used a HUGE set of channel lock pliers and turned that sucker right off , i say get a new barrel nut and rip that old sucker right off , if i can do it you can to my friend !!!!!
the pliers i used werent quite this big but hey it got the job done , GL bud |
|
Quoted:
Did he apply heat to it? That should have been the first thing to try, not freezing it. +1, cold will shrink the nut, heat will cause it to expand, plus soften any thread locker inside. If you can't break it loose with heat and 60 lbs or so of torque, then its time to cut it off. Barrel nuts are expendable and if you install a new handguard, it will likely come with its own nut. - CW |
|
Well, I called him today and he
told me he already tried applying heat. He told me that he is out of options. I don't know what to do. I seem to have no choice than to send it back to Bushmaster to have them remove it. I just bought the damn thing. I'm gonna have to wait who knows how long to get it back. |
|
Quoted:
Again, he said it would not budge. He said he even broke off one of the teeth on the barrel nut it was so tight. He was lifting his body off the ground trying to get the barrel wrench to loosen the nut. If he's breaking off teeth, sounds like he's using an old 3-pronged GI barrel wrench - 
Use a wrench that looks like this - 
and there's no way you're going to break off or round teeth. First post was correct. Winniethepooh gave you good advice - get a new gunsmith before he does any more damage.. |
|
I just picked up my AR
from my gunsmith. After looking at the damage to the barrel nut, I am loathe to subject my AR to anymore damage at anther gunsmith. Sorry, but my AR is my baby. I'm gonna have to send it to Bushmaster so they can swap out the barrel for me. I called them and they said this should never have happened. They use no locktite or any other thing to fix the barrel into the upper. I really don't want to send my AR away right now with all this political stuff going on. It could take eons to get it back. I'll just have to bite the bullet for now and keep using the barrel that is attached it. :( |
|
i had a stuck barrel nut once. After busting off a lot of teeth from the nut, I broke down and borrowed an 18" pipe wrench. Then I put the upper in the freezer for 30 minutes before cinching it down on the vise. The nut came off smoothly, though not "easily" - it still took a lot of pressure to get it started.
The freezer bit works because steel and aluminum react differently to temperature changes. Steel contracts slower than aluminum, so the upper microscopically pulls in from the nut, making it (marginally) easier to loosen. I'll also point out that I twisted the upper doing this, holding the upper in a DPMS Panther Claw vise block. I STRONGLY recommend use of a set of aluminum barrel vise blocks to hold the BARREL while working on the barrel nut. Hopefully Bushmaster will swap out that barrel quickly and easily, and then fill you in on what your 'smith did wrong. I further hope that he did not tweak your upper in his failed attempts to loosen that barrel nut. |
| Sounds as if the barrel was installed without any anti-sieze on the threads and they have galled and locked together. More than likely there will be damage to the reciever threads, best to find a stripped upper reciever for your new barrel at this point and leave this upper as it is. |
|
Quoted:
I'll also point out that I twisted the upper doing this, holding the upper in a DPMS Panther Claw vise block. I STRONGLY recommend use of a set of aluminum barrel vise blocks to hold the BARREL while working on the barrel nut. No barrel vice blocks if it is stuck. Barrel vice blocks will put ALL the torque into the barrel extension pin! Use a clamshell holder. The claw is best used for clean assembly if anything. |
|
I really don't know what I'm going to do now.
After all the issues that occurred while having a qualified gunsmith work on it, I'm really hesitant to have anyone do any work on it besides a qualified Bushmaster armorer. I know sending it in to Busmaster could take a while to get back. Bushmaster told me probably atleast 5-8 week turn around time minimum. With possible new gun laws coming, I am tending to be on the paranoid side about sending my AR to any corporation. I worry about even the most remote possibility that instead of receiving my AR back from them in the mail, I instead find a cheque made out to me by the Federal Govt for MSRP of my AR because of some new law. Who knows what will happen. I guess I'm just gonna wait and see what happens in congress before I decide sending off my AR for even a few weeks or even months. I would totally let an ordinary person who is familiar with the AR swap it out for me if I was certain that the individual could do a good job without doing any damage. Hell, I'd pay them well and take em out for a nice dinner out at a decent restaurant if they could do that. But after seeing the marred teeth on the barrel nut after getting it back from a qualified gunsmith, I just wouldn't be able to risk or stomach the chance of having a totally ruined AR. It sure as shit wouldn't be feasible to replace the upper right now with the way guns are going today. I'm waiting just to buy a new Ruger 10/22 because they have been flying off the shelves. My local gun dealer said the price of AR15s from his distributors have jumped like three times since the Connecticut incident. He said AR magazines have been flying off the shelves. Big surprise, right? Everything firearm related is backorder right now, and very much more expensive. Guns and gun parts are getting scarce right now. FMJ .223 ammo is getting harder to find. |
|
Since you said the barrel came with a new nut... Stop obsessing over it and do as a previous poster suggested.
Use a Dremel with a cutoff disc to cut 2 or 3 slots across the nut. (not so deep as to hit the threads of the upper) A couple of hits with a hammer and chisel will split the nut. Eureka! If I were your gunsmith, I would have done this and told you afterwards. |
|
Quoted:
Since you said the barrel came with a new nut... Stop obsessing over it and do as a previous poster suggested. Use a Dremel with a cutoff disc to cut 2 or 3 slots across the nut. (not so deep as to hit the threads of the upper) A couple of hits with a hammer and chisel will split the nut. Eureka! If I were your gunsmith, I would have done this and told you afterwards. This I dont know why you would even consider sending it back with times the way they are now. Get a dremel and cut the stupid thing off might take an hour if your very, very carefull. |
|
I am just shocked to hear this.
I am the store manager at a large gun shop that is also a manufacturer / SOT. We custom build build AR-15 rifles and have certified armorers working there. We are builders and are very close to Black Rain Ordnance. We have very good working ties with them and I am also a builder. We could do the job for you in 20 minutes, you would only have to ship the upper (just a part) to us. We are not hurting for work, we have sold over 50 AR's in the last week and have 20+ custom builds we are lined up for, but this would a very easy quick job and we would have it flipped and sent back same day. We have worked on or built for over 15 federal and state departments. If you are interested, IM me. |
|
Quoted:
I really don't know what I'm going to do now. After all the issues that occurred while having a qualified gunsmith work on it, I'm really hesitant to have anyone do any work on it besides a qualified Bushmaster armorer. I know sending it in to Busmaster could take a while to get back. Bushmaster told me probably atleast 5-8 week turn around time minimum. With possible new gun laws coming, I am tending to be on the paranoid side about sending my AR to any corporation. I worry about even the most remote possibility that instead of receiving my AR back from them in the mail, I instead find a cheque made out to me by the Federal Govt for MSRP of my AR because of some new law. Who knows what will happen. I guess I'm just gonna wait and see what happens in congress before I decide sending off my AR for even a few weeks or even months. I would totally let an ordinary person who is familiar with the AR swap it out for me if I was certain that the individual could do a good job without doing any damage. Hell, I'd pay them well and take em out for a nice dinner out at a decent restaurant if they could do that. But after seeing the marred teeth on the barrel nut after getting it back from a qualified gunsmith, I just wouldn't be able to risk or stomach the chance of having a totally ruined AR. It sure as shit wouldn't be feasible to replace the upper right now with the way guns are going today. I'm waiting just to buy a new Ruger 10/22 because they have been flying off the shelves. My local gun dealer said the price of AR15s from his distributors have jumped like three times since the Connecticut incident. He said AR magazines have been flying off the shelves. Big surprise, right? Everything firearm related is backorder right now, and very much more expensive. Guns and gun parts are getting scarce right now. FMJ .223 ammo is getting harder to find. He may be qualified with shotguns and bolt guns be he is certainly not qualified with Black Rifle. I wonder what his tools were. It is a different discipline and some just don't get it. Send it to a qualified Black Rifle Smith and move on. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll also point out that I twisted the upper doing this, holding the upper in a DPMS Panther Claw vise block. I STRONGLY recommend use of a set of aluminum barrel vise blocks to hold the BARREL while working on the barrel nut. No barrel vice blocks if it is stuck. Barrel vice blocks will put ALL the torque into the barrel extension pin! Use a clamshell holder. The claw is best used for clean assembly if anything. I respectfully disagree. While the nut is stuck, there is no stress on the pin. Once it is broken loose, there is no stress on the pin, and it will go from stuck to loose in milliseconds when it comes loose. With the barrel firmly held in a set of vise blocks, the stress is concentrated on the bararel's flange and the threads of the upper [i]along the axis of the upper/i]. The only way the index pin can be stressed is if you are twisting the upper and the barrel in opposite directions, which does not happen when properly installing a barrel nut. On the other hand, with a Panther Claw, ALL of the stress is between the front end of the upper and the pivot lug, which is exactly how I twisted my upper. |
AR Sponsor