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Posted: 11/5/2015 1:30:37 AM EDT
| Is it acceptable to reuse taper pins? As in, take the front sight base off the barrel and put it back on using the same pins, provided you didn't demolish them during removal? |
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Is it acceptable to reuse taper pins? As in, take the front sight base off the barrel and put it back on using the same pins, provided you didn't demolish them during removal? Common, though not officially recommended. Long as it's all tight and good after reinstallation, everything should be fine. If things turn out sloppy, the official recommendation is to ream and reinstall wtih oversized pins. |
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Taper pins are a one time use item, just like crush washers, roll pins, carrier keys and their screws, pistol grip lock washers, end plates and Nylok screws. Reuse these items at your own risk. No, they are not. The aerospace industry reuses them in things more important that gas blocks. Lathes tapers are really just taper pins, and they have, theoretically an infinite life.  http://www.lathemaster.com/images/jacobs_-_mt3_-_s.jpg
Same goes for roll pins (provided the have the proper OD), screws (provided they are not cracked), lockwashers (provided they have the spec height), carrier keys (provided the are not cracked) and end plates (provided you can still stack the castle nut). The only reason not to use them is if it is not cost efficient to inspect them.... |
It's nice to know that I have higher standards than the aerospace industry. 
I have never seen a taper pin or a roll pin that was not damaged in some way after removal. Reusing any of these parts is not really worth the risk since replacing them is not expensive. |
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Quoted: It's nice to know that I have higher standards than the aerospace industry. I have never seen a taper pin or a roll pin that was not damaged in some way after removal. Reusing any of these parts is not really worth the risk since replacing them is not expensive. Screw it, I reused them. These taper pins were absolutely pristine after removal. I was surprised at how easily they came out. Gas tube roll pin was perfect too but I agree with you on roll pins so I didn't reuse that. Thanks for the replies, everybody. |
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It's nice to know that I have higher standards than the aerospace industry.
I have never seen a taper pin or a roll pin that was not damaged in some way after removal. Reusing any of these parts is not really worth the risk since replacing them is not expensive. Well, you don't have the same magnitude of a parts bill most aerospace repair facilities have. Maybe it's your technique? This is part of the whole 'cost of time and effort', for you, your time and effort to inspect a carrier key is not worth the $10.00 they cost.... |
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Well, you don't have the same magnitude of a parts bill most aerospace repair facilities have. Maybe it's your technique? This is part of the whole 'cost of time and effort', for you, your time and effort to inspect a carrier key is not worth the $10.00 they cost.... Quoted:
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It's nice to know that I have higher standards than the aerospace industry.
I have never seen a taper pin or a roll pin that was not damaged in some way after removal. Reusing any of these parts is not really worth the risk since replacing them is not expensive. Well, you don't have the same magnitude of a parts bill most aerospace repair facilities have. Maybe it's your technique? This is part of the whole 'cost of time and effort', for you, your time and effort to inspect a carrier key is not worth the $10.00 they cost.... As for the carrier keys I use a MOACKS tool for staking them, so it's not really a good idea to reuse a key since the stakes would end up in the same place as they were before. I could skip the MOACKS tool and do the tech manual field staking method of using a center punch to make three stakes around the top of the head of each screw but that is not worth the trouble to me. For my own rifles I also don't reuse castle nuts or barrel nuts either. You guys would probably love looking through my scrap metal buckets. I know my brother sure does... He actually ended up building a rifle that way. 
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As for the carrier keys I use a MOACKS tool for staking them, so it's not really a good idea to reuse a key since the stakes would end up in the same place as they were before. I could skip the MOACKS tool and do the tech manual field staking method of using a center punch to make three stakes around the top of the head of each screw but that is not worth the trouble to me. For my own rifles I also don't reuse castle nuts or barrel nuts either. You guys would probably love looking through my scrap metal buckets. I know my brother sure does... He actually ended up building a rifle that way. Quoted:
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It's nice to know that I have higher standards than the aerospace industry.
I have never seen a taper pin or a roll pin that was not damaged in some way after removal. Reusing any of these parts is not really worth the risk since replacing them is not expensive. Well, you don't have the same magnitude of a parts bill most aerospace repair facilities have. Maybe it's your technique? This is part of the whole 'cost of time and effort', for you, your time and effort to inspect a carrier key is not worth the $10.00 they cost.... As for the carrier keys I use a MOACKS tool for staking them, so it's not really a good idea to reuse a key since the stakes would end up in the same place as they were before. I could skip the MOACKS tool and do the tech manual field staking method of using a center punch to make three stakes around the top of the head of each screw but that is not worth the trouble to me. For my own rifles I also don't reuse castle nuts or barrel nuts either. You guys would probably love looking through my scrap metal buckets. I know my brother sure does... He actually ended up building a rifle that way. Do you replace the lug nuts on your wheels when you rotate your tires?
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Do you replace the lug nuts on your wheels when you rotate your tires? Quoted:
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It's nice to know that I have higher standards than the aerospace industry.
I have never seen a taper pin or a roll pin that was not damaged in some way after removal. Reusing any of these parts is not really worth the risk since replacing them is not expensive. Well, you don't have the same magnitude of a parts bill most aerospace repair facilities have. Maybe it's your technique? This is part of the whole 'cost of time and effort', for you, your time and effort to inspect a carrier key is not worth the $10.00 they cost.... As for the carrier keys I use a MOACKS tool for staking them, so it's not really a good idea to reuse a key since the stakes would end up in the same place as they were before. I could skip the MOACKS tool and do the tech manual field staking method of using a center punch to make three stakes around the top of the head of each screw but that is not worth the trouble to me. For my own rifles I also don't reuse castle nuts or barrel nuts either. You guys would probably love looking through my scrap metal buckets. I know my brother sure does... He actually ended up building a rifle that way. Do you replace the lug nuts on your wheels when you rotate your tires? No, but you have given me something to think about. 
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You won't reuse a barrel nut??? What's wrong with that? Especially if it goes back on the same upper with the same barrel. Not reusing barrel nuts was mostly a result of bad barrel wrench designs (DPMS/Smith Enterprises/3 pin GI) that would bend the teeth on a standard barrel nut at the low end of the torque spectrum. Believe it or not, the 3 pin GI barrel wrench is a better barrel wrench than the DPMS or the Smith. Now that I am using the BRDEngineering and 2UniqueLLC line of wrenches bending barrel nut teeth has not been an issue. |
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Quoted: Not reusing barrel nuts was mostly a result of bad barrel wrench designs (DPMS/Smith Enterprises/3 pin GI) that would bend the teeth on a standard barrel nut at the low end of the torque spectrum. Believe it or not, the 3 pin GI barrel wrench is a better barrel wrench than the DPMS or the Smith. Now that I am using the BRDEngineering and 2UniqueLLC line of wrenches bending barrel nut teeth has not been an issue. Quoted: Quoted: You won't reuse a barrel nut??? What's wrong with that? Especially if it goes back on the same upper with the same barrel. Not reusing barrel nuts was mostly a result of bad barrel wrench designs (DPMS/Smith Enterprises/3 pin GI) that would bend the teeth on a standard barrel nut at the low end of the torque spectrum. Believe it or not, the 3 pin GI barrel wrench is a better barrel wrench than the DPMS or the Smith. Now that I am using the BRDEngineering and 2UniqueLLC line of wrenches bending barrel nut teeth has not been an issue. Gotcha. Well, yeah, you have to be careful. I prefer the 3-pin GI barrel wrench. Haven't messed up a tooth yet! |
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Gotcha. Well, yeah, you have to be careful. I prefer the 3-pin GI barrel wrench. Haven't messed up a tooth yet!
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You won't reuse a barrel nut??? What's wrong with that? Especially if it goes back on the same upper with the same barrel. Not reusing barrel nuts was mostly a result of bad barrel wrench designs (DPMS/Smith Enterprises/3 pin GI) that would bend the teeth on a standard barrel nut at the low end of the torque spectrum. Believe it or not, the 3 pin GI barrel wrench is a better barrel wrench than the DPMS or the Smith. Now that I am using the BRDEngineering and 2UniqueLLC line of wrenches bending barrel nut teeth has not been an issue. Gotcha. Well, yeah, you have to be careful. I prefer the 3-pin GI barrel wrench. Haven't messed up a tooth yet!
I found that with the GI wrench I could reach 40 foot pounds without any damage to the barrel nut but it would start bending teeth somewhere around 50 to 60 foot pounds. The DPMS and Smith wrench wouldn't make it to 30 foot pounds without bending teeth. The barrel nuts that I was using at the time were from Bushmaster around 2003/2006. At the time people suspected that the Bushmaster barrel nuts were soft, possibly incorrectly heat treated. All the frustration I had with those wrenches led to > this < thread (started in 2007) trying unsuccessfully to get Mark at LaRue Tactical to build a good wrench. That thread is still going today, though it's less about barrel wrenches than it is about.... Well, I really don't know what it's about anymore. 
Sorry for hijacking your thread... Getting back to taper pins, I know that ADCO reuses them unless you specifically request that they don't and you are willing to pay for a new set. |
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I found that with the GI wrench I could reach 40 foot pounds without any damage to the barrel nut but it would start bending teeth somewhere around 50 to 60 foot pounds. The DPMS and Smith wrench wouldn't make it to 30 foot pounds without bending teeth. The barrel nuts that I was using at the time were from Bushmaster around 2003/2006. At the time people suspected that the Bushmaster barrel nuts were soft, possibly incorrectly heat treated. I've torqued dozens of barrels, many over-spec, with a DPMS wrench and have yet to damage either a nut or the wrench. |
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I've torqued dozens of barrels, many over-spec, with a DPMS wrench and have yet to damage either a nut or the wrench. Quoted:
I found that with the GI wrench I could reach 40 foot pounds without any damage to the barrel nut but it would start bending teeth somewhere around 50 to 60 foot pounds. The DPMS and Smith wrench wouldn't make it to 30 foot pounds without bending teeth. The barrel nuts that I was using at the time were from Bushmaster around 2003/2006. At the time people suspected that the Bushmaster barrel nuts were soft, possibly incorrectly heat treated. I've torqued dozens of barrels, many over-spec, with a DPMS wrench and have yet to damage either a nut or the wrench. I had to look pretty close sometimes but those two wrenches (DPMS and Smith) would always leave behind bent barrel nut teeth. Most of the time the damage would be minimal enough that I suspect most wouldn't even notice. FWIW, the Smith wrench was a little worse than the DPMS wrench due to it's powder coat finish. Yes, I am anal to an extreme with a case of OCD that would be easily diagnosable. |
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I don't think I've ever had to crank over 50lbs or so, luckily. My problem with the DPMS style wrenches is that they always seem to slip. Or maybe it's because they were bending teeth... I have never slipped using any of the wrenches I mentioned, that would be a sure way to cause damage. Though with the DPMS or Smith style wrenches it would be very easy to slip off the barrel nut because the teeth engagement depth on those wrenches is very shallow. |
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Quoted:Though with the DPMS or Smith style wrenches it would be very easy to slip off the barrel nut because the teeth engagement depth on those wrenches is very shallow. Bingo. Way back when I built my first AR and didn't know any better, I bought a DPMS wrench. |
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Bingo. Way back when I built my first AR and didn't know any better, I bought a DPMS wrench. Quoted:
Quoted:Though with the DPMS or Smith style wrenches it would be very easy to slip off the barrel nut because the teeth engagement depth on those wrenches is very shallow. Bingo. Way back when I built my first AR and didn't know any better, I bought a DPMS wrench. I originally bought the Smith wrench and then the DPMS wrench based off of all the good reviews that they received here... At the time it kind of surprised me that they sucked. Shockingly, I see that the DPMS/Smith style combination wrenches still get good reviews. 
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Not reusing barrel nuts was mostly a result of bad barrel wrench designs (DPMS/Smith Enterprises/3 pin GI) that would bend the teeth on a standard barrel nut at the low end of the torque spectrum. Believe it or not, the 3 pin GI barrel wrench is a better barrel wrench than the DPMS or the Smith. Now that I am using the BRDEngineering and 2UniqueLLC line of wrenches bending barrel nut teeth has not been an issue. Quoted:
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You won't reuse a barrel nut??? What's wrong with that? Especially if it goes back on the same upper with the same barrel. Not reusing barrel nuts was mostly a result of bad barrel wrench designs (DPMS/Smith Enterprises/3 pin GI) that would bend the teeth on a standard barrel nut at the low end of the torque spectrum. Believe it or not, the 3 pin GI barrel wrench is a better barrel wrench than the DPMS or the Smith. Now that I am using the BRDEngineering and 2UniqueLLC line of wrenches bending barrel nut teeth has not been an issue. I am using the cheapest wrench I could find and have not had this issue |
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I am using the cheapest wrench I could find and have not had this issue Quoted:
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You won't reuse a barrel nut??? What's wrong with that? Especially if it goes back on the same upper with the same barrel. Not reusing barrel nuts was mostly a result of bad barrel wrench designs (DPMS/Smith Enterprises/3 pin GI) that would bend the teeth on a standard barrel nut at the low end of the torque spectrum. Believe it or not, the 3 pin GI barrel wrench is a better barrel wrench than the DPMS or the Smith. Now that I am using the BRDEngineering and 2UniqueLLC line of wrenches bending barrel nut teeth has not been an issue. I am using the cheapest wrench I could find and have not had this issue Like I said before, most of the time the damage would be minimal enough that I suspect most wouldn't even notice. I also suspect that if people did notice that most wouldn't care, since any damage is hidden under the handguards. Sadly, I was not blessed with that non-perfectionist personality trait that most people seem to have been blessed with. Also, There is no reason to settle with a cheap low quality barrel wrench since you can get a quality barrel wrench and not spend more than $35.00 plus shipping. |
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Like I said before, most of the time the damage would be minimal enough that I suspect most wouldn't even notice. I also suspect that if people did notice that most wouldn't care, since any damage is hidden under the handguards. Sadly, I was not blessed with that non-perfectionist personality trait that most people seem to have been blessed with. Also, There is no reason to settle with a cheap low quality barrel wrench since you can get a quality barrel wrench and not spend more than $35.00 plus shipping. Quoted:
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You won't reuse a barrel nut??? What's wrong with that? Especially if it goes back on the same upper with the same barrel. Not reusing barrel nuts was mostly a result of bad barrel wrench designs (DPMS/Smith Enterprises/3 pin GI) that would bend the teeth on a standard barrel nut at the low end of the torque spectrum. Believe it or not, the 3 pin GI barrel wrench is a better barrel wrench than the DPMS or the Smith. Now that I am using the BRDEngineering and 2UniqueLLC line of wrenches bending barrel nut teeth has not been an issue. I am using the cheapest wrench I could find and have not had this issue Like I said before, most of the time the damage would be minimal enough that I suspect most wouldn't even notice. I also suspect that if people did notice that most wouldn't care, since any damage is hidden under the handguards. Sadly, I was not blessed with that non-perfectionist personality trait that most people seem to have been blessed with. Also, There is no reason to settle with a cheap low quality barrel wrench since you can get a quality barrel wrench and not spend more than $35.00 plus shipping. Maybe it's your mechanical skills and not the wrench |
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Maybe it's your mechanical skills and not the wrench Quoted:
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You won't reuse a barrel nut??? What's wrong with that? Especially if it goes back on the same upper with the same barrel. Not reusing barrel nuts was mostly a result of bad barrel wrench designs (DPMS/Smith Enterprises/3 pin GI) that would bend the teeth on a standard barrel nut at the low end of the torque spectrum. Believe it or not, the 3 pin GI barrel wrench is a better barrel wrench than the DPMS or the Smith. Now that I am using the BRDEngineering and 2UniqueLLC line of wrenches bending barrel nut teeth has not been an issue. I am using the cheapest wrench I could find and have not had this issue Like I said before, most of the time the damage would be minimal enough that I suspect most wouldn't even notice. I also suspect that if people did notice that most wouldn't care, since any damage is hidden under the handguards. Sadly, I was not blessed with that non-perfectionist personality trait that most people seem to have been blessed with. Also, There is no reason to settle with a cheap low quality barrel wrench since you can get a quality barrel wrench and not spend more than $35.00 plus shipping. Maybe it's your mechanical skills and not the wrench I've heard that before, though if it were my my mechanical skills the damage would have been caused by the wrench slipping or not being held perfectly flat against the barrel nut face. I can assure that it was neither of those two possibilities, that leaves either the low quality wrenches or soft barrel nuts. Also, I have experienced no damage using my new set of barrel wrenches on the same Bushmaster barrel nuts. So even if the problem was caused by the barrel nuts being soft the new wrenches made a difference. |
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