AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SPR or RECCE (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/8/2014 9:17:56 AM EDT
| I'm trying to figure out what kind of rifle to build. A SPR or RECCE. The rifle would be used at times to reach out and touch something while also having the possibility of something closer like urban/ hd uses |
|
Quoted:
I'm trying to figure out what kind of rifle to build. A SPR or RECCE. The rifle would be used at times to reach out and touch something while also having the possibility of something closer like urban/ hd uses Kind of apples and oranges. I'm more of everything through one-hole kinda guy, so I'd vote SPR, but if you like to run around and light up the place, an RECCE might be more your speed. If it were me, I'd build the SPR first, then put together a minimalist recon rifle (or maybe even an SBR) if you feel the SPR is too big to do the urban thing. |
|
That length barrel with carbine gas...the horror! 
Kidding aside, I know that many people love those barrels, but the combo does make little to no sense to me. 
|
|
Quoted:
I'm use to carrying around hunting rifles so think an SPR might be the same thing. Then put a 2.5-10x50 or similar scope on it and maybe a 45 degree offset with a red dot site or similar with BUIS iron sights? Pretty similar to what I'm doing on a Recce. 2.5-10x32 vortex and either an offset rmr or an rmr on top of the scope. Will have to mess around with it but the consensus on here seems to be that offset is quicker/easier since you don't have to raise your head. Then I'm rattle canning the shit out of it |
|
Quoted:
That length barrel with carbine gas...the horror!
Kidding aside, I know that many people love those barrels, but the combo does make little to no sense to me. Quoted:
That length barrel with carbine gas...the horror!
Kidding aside, I know that many people love those barrels, but the combo does make little to no sense to me. Agreed. The OCD side of me wants to go with that barrel but I think I'm going BCM SS410 for my build. |
|
Go RECCEE. I just built an spr and like it a lot, but would never want to try room clearing or running with it. It's a serious anchor. For that kind of thing, I have a 14.5 General purpose gun with an Aimpoint T-1.
If you can only have one rifle, a RECCEE is a good choice. |
|
Quoted:
That length barrel with carbine gas...the horror!
Kidding aside, I know that many people love those barrels, but the combo does make little to no sense to me. Quoted:
That length barrel with carbine gas...the horror!
Kidding aside, I know that many people love those barrels, but the combo does make little to no sense to me. I was merely trying to tell the OP to build a Recce. I prefer middy gas as well. |
|
Quoted:
Got damn. Are you using a suppressor and nightvision? OP "SPRs" can be light at 10lbs loaded if you use LW parts. Quoted:
Quoted:
My SPR build weighs about 13 pounds. I would never even consider carrying that sucker in an urban setting if I could help it. I would go recce. Are you using a suppressor and nightvision? OP "SPRs" can be light at 10lbs loaded if you use LW parts. The barrels and optics for SPRs pretty much negate the whole LW part reality as a whole. You can use a LW handguard, sure, but an SS 18" barrel alone makes a rig far from handy. You add a 10x plus optic to that, and weight just keeps adding up. |
|
Quoted:
The barrels and optics for SPRs pretty much negate the whole LW part reality as a whole. You can use a LW handguard, sure, but an SS 18" barrel alone makes a rig far from handy. You add a 10x plus optic to that, and weight just keeps adding up. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My SPR build weighs about 13 pounds. I would never even consider carrying that sucker in an urban setting if I could help it. I would go recce. Are you using a suppressor and nightvision? OP "SPRs" can be light at 10lbs loaded if you use LW parts. The barrels and optics for SPRs pretty much negate the whole LW part reality as a whole. You can use a LW handguard, sure, but an SS 18" barrel alone makes a rig far from handy. You add a 10x plus optic to that, and weight just keeps adding up. The barrel weighs almost three pounds on its own. The UBR stock doesn't help with the weight either. 
|
|
RECCE, here's why.
-Accuracy: It's a wash. It's the barrel quality, not length -Velocity: There is so little difference it, doesn't matter. If it's too far for the 14.5/16" RECCE, then the 18" SPR won't magically make it happen. -Weight: RECCE's should be lighter To me, there are more options with the RECCE. You can run the same optics on a RECCE as an SPR. The RECCE is shorter, lighter, and more maneuverable than the SPR. |
|
Quoted:
RECCE, here's why. -Accuracy: It's a wash. It's the barrel quality, not length -Velocity: There is so little difference it, doesn't matter. If it's too far for the 14.5/16" RECCE, then the 18" SPR won't magically make it happen. -Weight: RECCE's should be lighter To me, there are more options with the RECCE. You can run the same optics on a RECCE as an SPR. The RECCE is shorter, lighter, and more maneuverable than the SPR. These are solid points. I've actually long given up on 5.56 rifles over 14.5 inches. They're every bit as accurate as any other barrel length, and will do everything you'd want out of the 5.56 platform. I realize that RECCEs are traditionally 16 inches, but mine are 14.5s. They're lighter and handier, and as said, are capable of everything you'd want out of the 5.56 caliber. |
|
Quoted:
These are solid points. I've actually long given up on 5.56 rifles over 14.5 inches. They're every bit as accurate as any other barrel length, and will do everything you'd want out of the 5.56 platform. I realize that RECCEs are traditionally 16 inches, but mine are 14.5s. They're lighter and handier, and as said, are capable of everything you'd want out of the 5.56 caliber. Quoted:
Quoted:
RECCE, here's why. -Accuracy: It's a wash. It's the barrel quality, not length -Velocity: There is so little difference it, doesn't matter. If it's too far for the 14.5/16" RECCE, then the 18" SPR won't magically make it happen. -Weight: RECCE's should be lighter To me, there are more options with the RECCE. You can run the same optics on a RECCE as an SPR. The RECCE is shorter, lighter, and more maneuverable than the SPR. These are solid points. I've actually long given up on 5.56 rifles over 14.5 inches. They're every bit as accurate as any other barrel length, and will do everything you'd want out of the 5.56 platform. I realize that RECCEs are traditionally 16 inches, but mine are 14.5s. They're lighter and handier, and as said, are capable of everything you'd want out of the 5.56 caliber. I was going to post something along the same lines. While I do own a SPR, I've had it for quite some time now and really have no reason to let it go. My kids love shooting is suppressed so, I keep it around for them. If I were to build an all around general purpose rifle capable of MOA accuracy, I'd personally use a Noveske (or of similar quality) 14.5 SS Afghan barrel and use a 1-X variable powered optic. |
|
Quoted:
OP imo you don't need a heavy barrel for an "SPR" or a heavy stock. There are also scopes right under 20oz that are over 10x as well. I agree with this as well. For example, a 14.5" DD barrel will shoot lights out. And it's CHF CL instead of SS, so it's not only far lighter, but will also take much more abuse and a higher round count. You can then get an optic like a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP. It's a killer piece of glass, has every feature you'd want out of a 5.56 SPR optic, and even weighs less than many of the 1-6x optics on the market. And it's also very reasonably priced for what you get. That combo right there would yield a very quality, light, maneuverable and reliable SPR. |
|
Quoted:
I agree with this as well. For example, a 14.5" DD barrel will shoot lights out. And it's CHF CL instead of SS, so it's not only far lighter, but will also take much more abuse and a higher round count. You can then get an optic like a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP. It's a killer piece of glass, has every feature you'd want out of a 5.56 SPR optic, and even weighs less than many of the 1-6x optics on the market. And it's also very reasonably priced for what you get. That combo right there would yield a very quality, light, maneuverable and reliable SPR. Quoted:
Quoted:
OP imo you don't need a heavy barrel for an "SPR" or a heavy stock. There are also scopes right under 20oz that are over 10x as well. I agree with this as well. For example, a 14.5" DD barrel will shoot lights out. And it's CHF CL instead of SS, so it's not only far lighter, but will also take much more abuse and a higher round count. You can then get an optic like a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP. It's a killer piece of glass, has every feature you'd want out of a 5.56 SPR optic, and even weighs less than many of the 1-6x optics on the market. And it's also very reasonably priced for what you get. That combo right there would yield a very quality, light, maneuverable and reliable SPR. That optic is awesome. Just got mine yesterday for my 16" DD Recce I'm working on and I can already say I love it |
|
my $0.02 = I got it in my head that a precision AR needed to be long to work right. So, I bought a long barreled "varmint" style AR for some precision shooting - Glass, prs stock, bipod, etc. I shot if for about 2 years and it was a beast to carry around and a pain in the ass to shoot off anything but a bipod or bench.
Recently, I built a RECCE type rifle with a a 16" BCM barrel and KMR rail. It was drilling targets at the same level of accuracy as the varmint gun at distances that I shoot - typically 300 yards or less - and is a dream to handle. Offhand, standing, seated shooting positions are great and it will still do the bench work if I want. If I put a red dot on it, it would serve well as an HD carbine also. the old varmint gun was sold after the 3rd range trip for the RECCE and I don't miss it at all. |
|
Quoted:
Recce, or any 16" middy with a decent barrel/FF handguard, is a better all-round choice. SPR Mk 12 (I like the mod 0) with nice match grade 18" rifle gas barrel is the better long range gun, and sexy as hell. YMMV. A 16" SS barrel and 18" SS barrel with perform the same out to 600yds as far as accuracy is concerned- it's the bullet velocity that drops with the 16". |
|
Quoted:
A 16" SS barrel and 18" SS barrel with perform the same out to 600yds as far as accuracy is concerned- it's the bullet velocity that drops with the 16". Quoted:
Quoted:
Recce, or any 16" middy with a decent barrel/FF handguard, is a better all-round choice. SPR Mk 12 (I like the mod 0) with nice match grade 18" rifle gas barrel is the better long range gun, and sexy as hell. YMMV. A 16" SS barrel and 18" SS barrel with perform the same out to 600yds as far as accuracy is concerned- it's the bullet velocity that drops with the 16". Yes but you can run a rifle gas system on an 18" gun more reliably than on a 16", which equates to faster shot recovery through magnified optics. Also since the velocity is faster the max effective range is farther. |
|
Quoted:
Yes but you can run a rifle gas system on an 18" gun more reliably than on a 16", which equates to faster shot recovery through magnified optics. Also since the velocity is faster the max effective range is farther. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Recce, or any 16" middy with a decent barrel/FF handguard, is a better all-round choice. SPR Mk 12 (I like the mod 0) with nice match grade 18" rifle gas barrel is the better long range gun, and sexy as hell. YMMV. A 16" SS barrel and 18" SS barrel with perform the same out to 600yds as far as accuracy is concerned- it's the bullet velocity that drops with the 16". Yes but you can run a rifle gas system on an 18" gun more reliably than on a 16", which equates to faster shot recovery through magnified optics. Also since the velocity is faster the max effective range is farther. Eh...the milliseconds in 'shot recovery time' between 18" rifle gas and 16" mid gas is not fathomable by the every day shooter. If you're shooting at two legged animals, I would say yes the 18" is better at range due to the max effective range- with that said, a hunter will likely be shooting a 308 at any distance over 100yds at large game anyway. For paper punching 16" is becoming the new 'SPR' preferred length even on bolt guns. And heck, that one SFG that traded in their MK12's for the 16" noveske SS barrels for use in AFG tells you something there too... |
|
Quoted:
Eh...the milliseconds in 'shot recovery time' between 18" rifle gas and 16" mid gas is not fathomable by the every day shooter. If you're shooting at two legged animals, I would say yes the 18" is better at range due to the max effective range- with that said, a hunter will likely be shooting a 308 at any distance over 100yds at large game anyway. For paper punching 16" is becoming the new 'SPR' preferred length even on bolt guns. And heck, that one SFG that traded in their MK12's for the 16" noveske SS barrels for use in AFG tells you something there too... Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Recce, or any 16" middy with a decent barrel/FF handguard, is a better all-round choice. SPR Mk 12 (I like the mod 0) with nice match grade 18" rifle gas barrel is the better long range gun, and sexy as hell. YMMV. A 16" SS barrel and 18" SS barrel with perform the same out to 600yds as far as accuracy is concerned- it's the bullet velocity that drops with the 16". Yes but you can run a rifle gas system on an 18" gun more reliably than on a 16", which equates to faster shot recovery through magnified optics. Also since the velocity is faster the max effective range is farther. Eh...the milliseconds in 'shot recovery time' between 18" rifle gas and 16" mid gas is not fathomable by the every day shooter. If you're shooting at two legged animals, I would say yes the 18" is better at range due to the max effective range- with that said, a hunter will likely be shooting a 308 at any distance over 100yds at large game anyway. For paper punching 16" is becoming the new 'SPR' preferred length even on bolt guns. And heck, that one SFG that traded in their MK12's for the 16" noveske SS barrels for use in AFG tells you something there too... Not disagreeing; the differences are slight, but they do exist. |
|
Quoted:
Got damn. Are you using a suppressor and nightvision? OP "SPRs" can be light at 10lbs loaded if you use LW parts. Quoted:
Quoted:
My SPR build weighs about 13 pounds. I would never even consider carrying that sucker in an urban setting if I could help it. I would go recce. Are you using a suppressor and nightvision? OP "SPRs" can be light at 10lbs loaded if you use LW parts. LW SPR bbl? Uhhhhmmm no. |
|
Quoted: LW SPR bbl? Uhhhhmmm no. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My SPR build weighs about 13 pounds. I would never even consider carrying that sucker in an urban setting if I could help it. I would go recce. Are you using a suppressor and nightvision? OP "SPRs" can be light at 10lbs loaded if you use LW parts. LW SPR bbl? Uhhhhmmm no.  ETA: The term "SPR" is subjective unless your talking military clones just like a "Recce". |
| For a RECCE what scope do y'all recommend for quick target acquisition but still having the ability to reach out and touch if need be. I'm not building a toy. I'm building a tool to protect my family and I and maybe being food to the table or take out the occasional 4 legged fawn eater |
|
Quoted:
For a RECCE what scope do y'all recommend for quick target acquisition but still having the ability to reach out and touch if need be. I'm not building a toy. I'm building a tool to protect my family and I and maybe being food to the table or take out the occasional 4 legged fawn eater Depends on your budget and what you consider reaching out and touching. I'd look at the Vortex Viper PST line, you can't go wrong there for the money. I went with 2.5-10x32 FFP, but I'm also offsetting a RMR. I'd prolly recommend the PST 1-4 for your role |
|
Quoted:
For a RECCE what scope do y'all recommend for quick target acquisition but still having the ability to reach out and touch if need be. I'm not building a toy. I'm building a tool to protect my family and I and maybe being food to the table or take out the occasional 4 legged fawn eater 1-?x I'm going 2.5x I'm pretty damn fast with 3-9x, and wouldn't feel handicapped with 3x minimum, lots of guys running around the Middle East with ACOGs and what not. But obviously 1x or a RDS is your friend when in a possible CQB situation (AKA in your house!) Have you looked at the M4A1 SOPMOD Block II Clone thread??? That setup seems to be a pretty good balance between accuracy and CQB abilities 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/541606_M4A1_SOPMOD_Block_II_clone_picture_thread.html |
|
Quoted: For a RECCE what scope do y'all recommend for quick target acquisition but still having the ability to reach out and touch if need be. I'm not building a toy. I'm building a tool to protect my family and I and maybe being food to the table or take out the occasional 4 legged fawn eater ETA: Be prepared to pony out the cash though. |
|
Quoted: I suggest a 1-4 and if you want a very reliable/durable optic then get yourself a Nightforce NXS, Elcan SpecterDR, or an ACOG with a piggy back red dot. Quoted: Quoted: For a RECCE what scope do y'all recommend for quick target acquisition but still having the ability to reach out and touch if need be. I'm not building a toy. I'm building a tool to protect my family and I and maybe being food to the table or take out the occasional 4 legged fawn eater ETA: Be prepared to pony out the cash though. I have a 1.5-6X MTAC that is a very nice budget optic for a general purpose carbine. The eyebox is generous and on 1.5x behaves almost like a red dot when you index the rifle. Consistent index is of course needed, but its not too picky. This IMO is one of the largest factors when considering 1-4X or 1-6X optics. I haven't used the nightforce, but I've deployed with the Elcan and ACOG, both are good, but I like the Elcan better. |
|
Quoted:
ETA: Be prepared to pony out the cash though. I like the 1-6X scopes better. Can't go wrong with the nightforce, Elcan or ACOG, though I generally find the piggy back red dot to be a waste of time. Keep your optic on 1X (or even 3x with the ACOG) and they're pretty fast. If you want the piggy back red dot to be faster you have to train with the red dot as your primary position and then rotate/move for the magnification. I have a 1.5-6X MTAC that is a very nice budget optic for a general purpose carbine. The eyebox is generous and on 1.5x behaves almost like a red dot when you index the rifle. Consistent index is of course needed, but its not too picky. This IMO is one of the largest factors when considering 1-4X or 1-6X optics. I haven't used the nightforce, but I've deployed with the Elcan and ACOG, both are good, but I like the Elcan better. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For a RECCE what scope do y'all recommend for quick target acquisition but still having the ability to reach out and touch if need be. I'm not building a toy. I'm building a tool to protect my family and I and maybe being food to the table or take out the occasional 4 legged fawn eater I like the 1-6X scopes better. Can't go wrong with the nightforce, Elcan or ACOG, though I generally find the piggy back red dot to be a waste of time. Keep your optic on 1X (or even 3x with the ACOG) and they're pretty fast. If you want the piggy back red dot to be faster you have to train with the red dot as your primary position and then rotate/move for the magnification. I have a 1.5-6X MTAC that is a very nice budget optic for a general purpose carbine. The eyebox is generous and on 1.5x behaves almost like a red dot when you index the rifle. Consistent index is of course needed, but its not too picky. This IMO is one of the largest factors when considering 1-4X or 1-6X optics. I haven't used the nightforce, but I've deployed with the Elcan and ACOG, both are good, but I like the Elcan better. Shit... Get on the Back order for this... http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-Xtreme-Tactical-XTR-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P45511.aspx I had one... Bought it a few years ago at $900. The 1x of the 1-4x scope was so good, and fast enough for my needs, I sold the Fastfire II (It was a II before it was a III )
You can sell the FFIII RMR for $200, or use it for another firearm... And be into the whole scope/mount package for $400, and it's a great optic! My old rifle with the XTR-14 w/ RMR Factory configuration 
With Daniel Defense 1 O'clock offset mount 
|
|
My $0.02- Everything will ALWAYS be a trade off. You want distance capability but want something for close work too. Here's the decision tree I would think about:
How will this rifle primarily be used? Hunting, self defense, mid range precision, 3 gun? What is the max distance I realistically think I'll be shooting to? What is the realistic accuracy I expect at _____ distance? How far am I actually going to be carrying the rifle? Is it a vision of having to run around all day in a zombie scenario or do I just think I will and will actually only be practicing for a zombie attack by shooting 10-20 rounds at a time on a square range? Any time you start expanding the capabilities you want your 'one' rifle to accomplish, you'll add weight and cost. If your goal is precision at 400 and the possibility to be lethal at a reasonable max of 600, the 16" barrel with a 1-4/6x scope, possibly off set irons is an excellent way to go. If you are not going to run a suppressor primarily, the 18" barrel would be worth a look. It's only 2" more but that will be just that much more fps velocity which will add distance to the range that your ammo will reliably expand or add more ft/lbs of energy up close. Look at most 3 gun rifles. They are running a lot of 18" tubes even with collapsible stocks because they shoot fast up close and need accuracy at distance. 18" is a great length for that. You can clear your house just fine with an 18" barrel (with a rifle length HG, take your support arm in a chicken wing with your elbow pointing at your target. Lay the handguard across your chicken winged support arm at the elbow. Tuck the buttstock into your firing arm which is chicken winged too. You will be completely sideways but you can move quickly through a home and hit center mass just fine, even better if you've got a laser. If you need that precision shot, it would be fast to get back into proper shooting position and then it won't matter 16" or 18") If you are going to run suppressed, I'd go 16" just due to overall length. Either way figure out if you NEED more than a 4/6x max upper magnification scope. A 1-4x scope will be lighter but suffer at distance. It will be able to make torso hits at 600 I'm sure. If you want more magnification, a 2.5-10 scope and off set irons is the ticket. All my opinion but just put together a list of what you ACTUALLY, REASONABLY think you can do. Heck, I have walked for several miles with my 20" .308 AR with a 2.5-10 scope and found it to work just fine. Is it a run around, CQB rifle? No. But I got used to the weight and it packs a punch. |
|
Quoted:
My $0.02- Everything will ALWAYS be a trade off. You want distance capability but want something for close work too. Here's the decision tree I would think about: How will this rifle primarily be used? Hunting, self defense, mid range precision, 3 gun? What is the max distance I realistically think I'll be shooting to? What is the realistic accuracy I expect at _____ distance? How far am I actually going to be carrying the rifle? Is it a vision of having to run around all day in a zombie scenario or do I just think I will and will actually only be practicing for a zombie attack by shooting 10-20 rounds at a time on a square range? Any time you start expanding the capabilities you want your 'one' rifle to accomplish, you'll add weight and cost. If your goal is precision at 400 and the possibility to be lethal at a reasonable max of 600, the 16" barrel with a 1-4/6x scope, possibly off set irons is an excellent way to go. If you are not going to run a suppressor primarily, the 18" barrel would be worth a look. It's only 2" more but that will be just that much more fps velocity which will add distance to the range that your ammo will reliably expand or add more ft/lbs of energy up close. Look at most 3 gun rifles. They are running a lot of 18" tubes even with collapsible stocks because they shoot fast up close and need accuracy at distance. 18" is a great length for that. You can clear your house just fine with an 18" barrel (with a rifle length HG, take your support arm in a chicken wing with your elbow pointing at your target. Lay the handguard across your chicken winged support arm at the elbow. Tuck the buttstock into your firing arm which is chicken winged too. You will be completely sideways but you can move quickly through a home and hit center mass just fine, even better if you've got a laser. If you need that precision shot, it would be fast to get back into proper shooting position and then it won't matter 16" or 18") If you are going to run suppressed, I'd go 16" just due to overall length. Either way figure out if you NEED more than a 4/6x max upper magnification scope. A 1-4x scope will be lighter but suffer at distance. It will be able to make torso hits at 600 I'm sure. If you want more magnification, a 2.5-10 scope and off set irons is the ticket. All my opinion but just put together a list of what you ACTUALLY, REASONABLY think you can do. Heck, I have walked for several miles with my 20" .308 AR with a 2.5-10 scope and found it to work just fine. Is it a run around, CQB rifle? No. But I got used to the weight and it packs a punch. Pretty damned good post! I'd only snort a lil bit at the 18" vs. 16"... And that can be argued back and forth for eternity honestly. |
|
Quoted: Screw the x24... Unless you're going purely for clone status. Quoted: Quoted: I'm looking to run a 2.5-10x24 with a Aimpoint micro in an offset mount. It'll be interesting to see if I like the setup and transition. Screw the x24... Unless you're going purely for clone status. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SPR or RECCE (Page 1 of 2)
AR Sponsor