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Posted: 10/23/2006 4:47:30 PM EDT
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Bought a barreled upper today, and it's an interesting combination of parts. It certainly appears to have been factory assembled, but it doesn't make sense. I'll try to post pics later, but here's the description. I'm pretty certain it has a Model 601 1-14 twist barrel as it has an Armalite duckbill flashhider, cast FSB, bare steel sling swivel, the barrel is turned quite small in front of the FSB (haven't taken the calipers to it yet), and NO stampings on it that I can find. The outside of the flashhider lockwasher is even knurled! Definitely non chrome lined. I lucked out on it big time, the bore and chamber are minty except for a couple very tiny pits. Also has an Armalite gas tube. Handguards consist of one black bakelite early model w/o drain hole and one later injection molded one (replacement, obviously). The upper looks like it's an XM16E1 forward assist upper with the Colt counterbore front pivot hole. NO forge codes or inspection marks anywhere. All of the other uppers I looked at had the Colt and proof marking on the upper receiver. Maybe this one got missed? ETA: It has the *PRE* '64 Armalite port door. It sure doesn't appear that the barrel and upper have ever been apart. So...any ideas? Factory built or not? As I said, I'll post pics later. At the very least it's a good collection of parts. |
I'm already gonna have to compromise with an SP1 upper.
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The plot thickens. I double checked the upper and it has the PRE '64 Armalite port door. I thought the FA upper came after the 601 barrels were discontinued too. I got the upper from KY Imports. I usually drive past there on my way to work and knew they had some uppers. Anyway, I checked out 8 different uppers when I was there in person. 7 of the 8 had the Armalite duckbill flashhiders which were only supposed to be used on the 601 model barrels. The 1 of the 8 that didn't was a true XM16E1 upper with the later three prong and the "12" marking on the bottom of the barrel. All had early forward assist uppers with the counterbore front pivot hole and IIRC, Armalite pre '64 port doors. All had cast FSB's and plain steel sling swivels. Be forewarned, of the 8 uppers I looked at the one I bought had a great bore and appeared to be a nice shape original finish. The rest had bores that were heavily pitted, shot out, or both. Some of the upper receivers had a cheezy black refinish job as well. The saleman said they DID have more in the warehouse, but in what condition, I can't say. I'd only deal with them in person to see what you're getting first hand. From what I've heard, dealing mail order can be a crap shoot. They're asking $399 for the uppers w/ charging handle, and if this one hadn't been composed of rare parts and in really nice shape I would have passed. Plus, I'm kinda impatient. 
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www.kyimports.com They are right off of I-265 Gene Snyder Freeway on the east side of Louisville. |
Knurled lock washers were used up to the switch to the A2 comp in the 1980s. The early parts appear on the 603 and 604 uppers up to 1964. Colt used cast FSB to 1964 on the 603 and 604 There really isn't anything posted that would lead me to believe you have any Armalite parts except for the duckbill FH. Can you take some pics of the barrel? |
I'm going to try to get some pics in the next day or two. I still need to finish cleaning the cosmo off of it. Even if it's a VERY early 603 upper I'm still pleased. Thing that makes me think it's 1 in 14" twist is that the barrel is not marked with a "12". Anyone have a good place to host pics? |
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Sure are a bunch of XM16E1 uppers on the marked, sort of like all the 604 uppers that showed up about 2 years ago. Rather then taking this for granted, you do mean the 601 flash supprosor, like this:  US military rifles are rebarreled with the barrel in a vise, this leaves marks:   The odds that anyone would put a 601 barrel on a 603 barrel is rather low. Like Scott pointed out though, the flash suppressor is a good sign. Short of running a patch down the barrel to determine twist the next best way to ID a 601 barrel is by the diameter in front of the FSB. We had a suspected 601 barrel here last week that did not pass this measurement criteria, and was 1/12: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=298536 Here are some measurements of some barrels I had handy (between FSB and flash): 601: .562" (W M) 602: .574" (VP 12 C) 603/604/SP1: .577" (M VP 12 C) .578" (MP S 12) .578" (C MP B) .575" (C MP CHROME BORE) 1/12 barrels were first used on the Model 602 in 1963. These had cast FSB's as did the 601 prior, but the barrel was beefier infront of the FSB. When the 603/604/SP1 went into production in 1964 they used the same barrel as did the 602 (for a short time). There are five markings found on these early 1/12 twist barrels: 1) Colt's VP proof mark between the legs of the FSB 2) a "12" about an inch from the muzzle 3) on the front face of the barrel extention a "C" 4) just infront of the VP proof mark a "M" 5) a sideways "S", typically infront of the "12" 1 being the most likely to be observed, and 5 being the rarest. For instance, I don't know of any of these barrels that lack the VP proof mark, and have only had one with the "S" marking. |
I found that Photobucket sucks. Try Imageshack instead. |
Yup, sure does.... |
Great, then it sounds like it is an all original early 1964 XM16E1 upper. Save the flash suppressor, don't know what to make of that. BTW, the early ones went to SFG's, the 82nd, and the 101st. |
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For starters thanks to Scottmon for the tip, can't believe I could have missed those in my backyard! I scored 4 of the Uppers, 1 is a definite 1/12 barrel and looks like a XM16E1, not 100% sure on the others but I suspect they do have 1/14 barrels. If not I have no idea what they are?  XM16E1 with 1/12 Barrel   The size on this one is .575, and it has the improved 3 prong 1/14 Barrels?     The size on these ranges from .562 up to .570 depending on where the measurement is taken Unknown / Unmarked Barrel?  Not sure if this an actual mark, or just a ding in the barrel This has a Duckbill FH on it This one ranges from .570 to .575 All of the possible 1/14 barrels have very clear/obvious jaw/vise marks on the barrels. Sorry for the crappy pics and short info, I will be updating things as I get the time. Thanks, "Capt Richardson" PS: these are going in my safe or they are spoken for. Ky Imports did have some more Uppers left, but I believe they were all 1/12 barrels. |
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I thought these old barrels were a straight cylinder from the FSB to flash suppressor. With your data in hand I rechecked three barrels and found they are actually tapered. 601: .572-.545" 602: .579-.573" 603: .578-.574" So, based on your measurements, and the markings, those two barrels are highly suspected to be 1/14. Think you need to run patches through them and get a twist rate reading. |
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My barrel also has vice marks, I'm pretty sure. Only stamping on the barrel is I think a "VP". Or at least looks the same as the unknown / unmarked barrel CaptRichardson took the pic of. No "12" anywhere. And it has an Armalite duckbill FS. So...I still suspect a possible 1 in 14" twist. Guess it's time to get the cleaning rod out and check the twist rate to be sure. Capt. Richardson, did you find any other uppers with good bores? I ran the salesman back and forth to the warehouse a couple times before he found a nice one for me. Bore on mine cleaned up awesome. No pits and VERY little wear. |
Guys I want you both to know that you suck! Seriously though those are very nice finds. I would love to purchase a couple of those upper assemblies, however I do not want to take pig in a poke and either get a winner or a sewer pipe. Great find and I hope you enjoy em. 
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More sewer pipes than winners from what I saw.  Now I just need to figure out how to build the rest of the rifle to complement the upper, once we figure out WTF kind of uppers they are???? |
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Guess what guys? They're 601 barrels. I marked my cleaning rod, oiled up a patch and pushed it through. I did this three different times with three different oiled patches and was careful in my measuring. 1 twist in 14" each time. ETA: I guess the hunt for the rest of the 601 parts to build a clone is NOW on... |
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FYI, because I am sure KY Imports phone lines will be blowing up this morning. For starters the individuals I spoke with did not know they had 1/14 barrels, and did not know the difference between a duckbill and an improved 3 prong FH. So bear that in mind if you talk to them. From what I saw, I looked at 8 Uppers which was supposedly all they had, after I got done they would have 1 XM16E1 Upper left with a 1/12 barrel and improved 3 prong, and the others would all be M16A1 with chrome barrels and birdcage FH. This was supposedly a 1 time find, but can assure you that I will be checking back more frequently and if I run across anymore I will spread the word. Of course I may have to duke it out with Scottmon to get at them!  As I get the time I will post some info and pics for those who are interested in the academics / specs on them. Thanks, "Capt Richardson" PS: hey Scottmon drop me a line, I owe you a dinner or some beers after this one! |
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Scottmon, might post details and pics of your 1/14 twist barrel here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=304165 |
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