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Posted: 4/15/2017 12:31:35 PM EDT
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Howdy,
Sorry if this question has already been addressed. I would like to get my 80% lower engraved for an M16A1 clone, but I am wondering about putting a serial number on it. Can I put a real M16A1 serial number on it, or do I have to make one up? I don't want to get mixed up with legality here, but I'm trying to make an accurate clone. Thanks |
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Quoted:
Howdy, Sorry if this question has already been addressed. I would like to get my 80% lower engraved for an M16A1 clone, but I am wondering about putting a serial number on it. Can I put a real M16A1 serial number on it, or do I have to make one up? I don't want to get mixed up with legality here, but I'm trying to make an accurate clone. Thanks Most of us have used serial numbers from the correct military range of weapons that we are building. Your build from an 80% receiver should not have a sear pin hole in it, nor should it have the shelf for the auto sear, so there should not be any confusing it with a REAL USGI receiver. For added security, I always photograph my engraved 80% receivers BEFORE I mill them out, so that I have proof showing that I used an 80% receiver for my build with those particular markings, and that particular serial number. |
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I have a demilled receiver and used the number from that receiver. This is not mine, but a good example.
Attached File |
| I've often wondered about serial numbers, and logos as well. Not so much about my own, but what if You engrave a logo and or serial number on an 80% lower for sale. I know guys do that, but can't you potentially get in trouble for doing that? At least for trademark infringement? |
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I've often wondered about serial numbers, and logos as well. Not so much about my own, but what if You engrave a logo and or serial number on an 80% lower for sale. I know guys do that, but can't you potentially get in trouble for doing that? At least for trademark infringement? That said, you cannot legally mark it with a Colt logo and sell it as a Colt if they didn't authorize or manufacture it. |
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If you are just selling a few here and there, then no, it will come under the free use rules, if you set up a manufacturing facility turning out thousands every week, then yes, it would be a trademark violation. That said, you cannot legally mark it with a Colt logo and sell it as a Colt if they didn't authorize or manufacture it. Quoted:
Quoted:
I've often wondered about serial numbers, and logos as well. Not so much about my own, but what if You engrave a logo and or serial number on an 80% lower for sale. I know guys do that, but can't you potentially get in trouble for doing that? At least for trademark infringement? That said, you cannot legally mark it with a Colt logo and sell it as a Colt if they didn't authorize or manufacture it. I work for a car manufacturer. Occasionally I see our logo being used without our permission. We send those violations to corporate and they usually send a cease and desist letter. |
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I have a demilled receiver and used the number from that receiver. This is not mine, but a good example. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/5313/M16A1-Demilled-Receiver-188108.JPG |
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Use a logo without permission and you are breaking the law. Will Colt go after a guy for making a replica for himself, probably not. Will they go after someone selling 80% lowers with their logo on it, maybe. I work for a car manufacturer. Occasionally I see our logo being used without our permission. We send those violations to corporate and they usually send a cease and desist letter. https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/when-is-unauthorized-use-not-trademark-infringement There is a case that was decided based on nominative fair use, that was decided based on Functional Fair Use. |
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Actually you are wrong, in the US it is called "nominative fair use" https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/when-is-unauthorized-use-not-trademark-infringement There is a case that was decided based on nominative fair use, that was decided based on Functional Fair Use. |
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So in English that means you can do it most likely without getting your tits hammered? I have a Ph.D. and that article still confused me. 
And with a Ph.D. I am sure you are to smart to understand why our courts decide things the way they do! 
I am a dumbshit and only have a FFL 7/SOT, so I have learned how to speak their language! And understand what we can and can't do! 
It basically says, you can do pretty much what you want, as long as you are not doing it to deceive others, in other words, if you are building a replica, or a clone, you can use the Colt logo as long as you don't try to sell it to another without telling them it is a replica or clone, you could get in trouble if you try to sell as a real colt. 
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Actually you are wrong, in the US it is called "nominative fair use" https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/when-is-unauthorized-use-not-trademark-infringement There is a case that was decided based on nominative fair use, that was decided based on Functional Fair Use. Quoted:
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Use a logo without permission and you are breaking the law. Will Colt go after a guy for making a replica for himself, probably not. Will they go after someone selling 80% lowers with their logo on it, maybe. I work for a car manufacturer. Occasionally I see our logo being used without our permission. We send those violations to corporate and they usually send a cease and desist letter. https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/when-is-unauthorized-use-not-trademark-infringement There is a case that was decided based on nominative fair use, that was decided based on Functional Fair Use. Even if you are right don't forget the courts will settle the argument. This means lawyers and lawyers mean lots of money. Somebody like Colt can certainly wear down the little guy with lawsuits. Enjoy! |
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It basically says, you can do pretty much what you want, as long as you are not doing it to deceive others, in other words, if you are building a replica, or a clone, you can use the Colt logo as long as you don't try to sell it to another without telling them it is a replica or clone, you could get in trouble if you try to sell as a real colt. |
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How am I wrong? I said make them for your own consumption you will be fine. Start selling 80% lowers you may wake a sleeping giant. Even if you are right don't forget the courts will settle the argument. This means lawyers and lawyers mean lots of money. Somebody like Colt can certainly wear down the little guy with lawsuits. Enjoy! You and I are probably saying the same thing. All is good.
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To get back to the original question, an unlicensed individual (that's you) is not required to ever put a serial number on any self made firearm.
You do have to do all the work yourself and you can't build with the intent to sell. If you later decide you don't want the darn thing you can legally sell it. If you do put a serial on you can engrave it any way you want. Or paint it on or scratch it in the receiver or whatever and you can put it anywhere you want. That's it. It's that simple. |
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To get back to the original question, an unlicensed individual (that's you) is not required to ever put a serial number on any self made firearm. You do have to do all the work yourself and you can't build with the intent to sell. If you later decide you don't want the darn thing you can legally sell it. If you do put a serial on you can engrave it any way you want. Or paint it on or scratch it in the receiver or whatever and you can put it anywhere you want. That's it. It's that simple. |
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... I have my bootcamp rifle's serial number handwritten on the cover of my databook from 1984. I've been dabbling with that idea Short of finding that, my thought was to just pick a number that would mean something to me. My date of entry, for instance. |
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