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Posted: 12/13/2011 6:35:42 AM EDT
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I see a ton of under 16" uppers/barrels being bought and sold. Are all these taxed sbr's? I'm not pointing finger or really care...just wondering if the short barrel thing is just ignored?
my stepson's friends dad pulled out his AR to show it off, it had a 12ish barrel and when my stepson asked if he sbr'd it, he kinda quickly put it away. just wonderin' |
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All NFA rules apply and if you aren't a BATFE Fishing for someone then you should know your friends dad is a moron looking for trouble.
The uppers for sale are legal as long as you put it on an SBR'd lower. They are pretty common these days since I think most people thing 200 bucks is fair enough to pay the government to own whatever barrel length you want. Dear ATF stop fishing like you do at gun shows. |
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There are a lot of AR pistols out there. A lot of people want the short barrel without messing with the NFA stuff, or legally a pistol is the only way to have a short barrel in their state. They do not ignore the barrel length thing. The BATFE would gladly charge you with the crime if you were to have an unregistered SBR and they found out about it.
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I see a ton of under 16" uppers/barrels being bought and sold. Are all these taxed sbr's? I'm not pointing finger or really care...just wondering if the short barrel thing is just ignored? my stepson's friends dad pulled out his AR to show it off, it had a 12ish barrel and when my stepson asked if he sbr'd it, he kinda quickly put it away. just wonderin' Just a very bad idea, seriously. $200 vs atty fees. Simply not cost effective use of the brain. |
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So the lower itself is what gets registered as an SBR? Could I register it once and the swap back and forth between say, 2 short barrel uppers and a 16"? I guess what I'm asking is do you have to pay the $200 for every upper, or just once for the lower? you pay one stamp for the existing firearm (using the lower's S/N) if you plan on building via Form 1 you list the inital SBR configuration, so one barrel length, and one caliber on the form 1. pay the $200. wait. once you get the approved form 1 with stamp, you can swap whatever barrel lengths and calibers you want onto that lower. the ATF asks that if you permanently change the configuration from what you listed on the form 1, that you write them and let them know, so they can keep the NFRTR up to date |
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Just out of curiosity...Does anyone know someone who has been prosecuted for not following NFA procedures? Not that I advocate deviating in any manner, but the paranoia on this site doesn't seem to correlate with any stories of real imprisonment. Probably not very many..... But like others have said not worth it to break the law. Personally I do not want to take showers with dudes and worry about dropping soap when I can take a shower with my g/f. Abide by the law and do not advocate breaking this law it is what the anti-gunners want so they have ammo to ban more stuff. |
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Your friend's dad is a dumb a$$, plain and simple.
Anyone can buy <16" barrels/uppers, even your 14yo sister if she had the money. They're just machined parts in the eye of the BATFE. As explained above, you can have 1 SBR lower and 20 uppers(SBR and non). You only have to notify the BATFE if you permanently change it i.e. registered as 10.5" 5.56 barrel and no longer own a 10.5" 5.56 barrel/upper. Even if you live in a ban state, you can buy as many <16" barrels uppers as you want. The assumption is that you're going to pin a brake/FH on them. Thankfully, I don't know anyone who takes NFA, or any firearms laws for that matter, lightly. |
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Just out of curiosity...Does anyone know someone who has been prosecuted for not following NFA procedures? Not that I advocate deviating in any manner, but the paranoia on this site doesn't seem to correlate with any stories of real imprisonment. I was stopped at a gun show with what the ATF believed was a unregistered short barrel shotgun a couple years ago, though I knew it wasn't. While waiting for a measuring tape to arrive, the ATF agent said if it was under legal length, they would allow me to surrender the gun, or face charges. I was freed once the measuring tape arrived, and I was legal length by 1/4". The ATF agent then bought the gun from me. My GUESS is that if its a first offense, they may go easy on you, but it would probably also be dependant on the agent. |
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So to clarify, it sounds like the stamp belongs to the lower? Do subsequent lowers intended for complete sbr's require an additional application and $200 stamp each and every time for multiple builds?  yes. when I formed a trust for my wife and I back in 2009, I submitted 5 Form 1's at the same time. the form 1 is tied to a serial number (which is why if you build from an 80% lower, you need to assign a s/n of your choosing). |
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I rarely hear about people getting nailed for an un-registered SBR, but then again –– you definitely don't want me to be one of the unlucky few .
I would think the gunshow scenario listed a couple of posts above would be a real good way to get caught if a person was a) silly enough to build one and b) even sillier by taking it out in public to a place where people can call him out One scenario would be a guy who lives in the sticks who builds an unregistered sbr –– shoots at remote locations, and never encounters LEO –– that person may very well go his whole life without an issue Another scenario would be driving home from a range at dusk , you drop something in the floorboard and start weaving around trying to get it ––- bingo, blue and reds on a suspected DUI –– cop sees ammo, gets nervous - searches your car , then doesn't know about your guns legality so calls his supervisor, etc etc –––– bingo, you lose your rifle , the ATF gets notified, then you have some :'splaining to do" 3rd scenario ––- same as above , but cop doesn't care at all as long as its not FA ––- you get a stern warning about fishing around for your MArty Robbins CD in the dark while driving –– and thats it 4th –– (i'll quit here because we could go on and on) –– you have a break in and shoot a burglar with your bedside revolver or whatever ––- while the cops are there later, they notice your illegal rifle standing in the corner ––- look it over , get concerned and the rest is history –– you saved your life, but have a felony inquiry , or worse to show for it too The second scenario happened to me ––- only my rifles were totally above board ––- a handful of sporting firearms and an 16" M-4 copy that the young officer didnt know was legal or not –– held me up for 30 minutes while waiting for his supervisor WAs also pulled over for speeding once –– when approached by the officer, i very calmly told him i have been to a shooting range and there are several firearms in cases behind the seat of my truck –– he looked in the bed and saw my target paraphernalia and jug full of range brass and basically said "HAve a nice day, drive slower" –– attitude is everything sometimes –––– bottom line i guess is that when the rifles are over a grand at a minimum for nice builds, an extra $200 and waiting a couple months is cheap insurance –––– your friends dad needs to solder on a long flashhider to stay above board |
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Just out of curiosity...Does anyone know someone who has been prosecuted for not following NFA procedures? Not that I advocate deviating in any manner, but the paranoia on this site doesn't seem to correlate with any stories of real imprisonment. Well, about 2 months ago, I went to a local gun show to buy a 10.5" 9mm AR upper. I bring my registered SBR lower into the show, buy the upper, and slap it on right there. I go about my business and leave the show. I get to my car, lock the action open, remove the mag, and place the rifle on my passenger seat (legal to do in Ohio). About a mile from the gun show, I get pulled over by two patrol officers and a detective. The detective said that someone had called in that I had an illegal SBR at the gun show. After showing the detective a copy of my form 1, they said everything was good to go and let me go. I've also seen people walking around the same gun shows with unregistered SBRs as well (started asking friendly questions about their gun, and they admitted it to me) and nothing happened to them. |
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Just out of curiosity...Does anyone know someone who has been prosecuted for not following NFA procedures? Not that I advocate deviating in any manner, but the paranoia on this site doesn't seem to correlate with any stories of real imprisonment. Well, about 2 months ago, I went to a local gun show to buy a 10.5" 9mm AR upper. I bring my registered SBR lower into the show, buy the upper, and slap it on right there. I go about my business and leave the show. I get to my car, lock the action open, remove the mag, and place the rifle on my passenger seat (legal to do in Ohio). About a mile from the gun show, I get pulled over by two patrol officers and a detective. The detective said that someone had called in that I had an illegal SBR at the gun show. After showing the detective a copy of my form 1, they said everything was good to go and let me go. I've also seen people walking around the same gun shows with unregistered SBRs as well (started asking friendly questions about their gun, and they admitted it to me) and nothing happened to them. Creepy that they had someone following you long enough to identify your car in the parking lot –––––– they wanted to separate you from a place where you could potentially harm a ton of other people |
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Just out of curiosity...Does anyone know someone who has been prosecuted for not following NFA procedures? Not that I advocate deviating in any manner, but the paranoia on this site doesn't seem to correlate with any stories of real imprisonment. Well, about 2 months ago, I went to a local gun show to buy a 10.5" 9mm AR upper. I bring my registered SBR lower into the show, buy the upper, and slap it on right there. I go about my business and leave the show. I get to my car, lock the action open, remove the mag, and place the rifle on my passenger seat (legal to do in Ohio). About a mile from the gun show, I get pulled over by two patrol officers and a detective. The detective said that someone had called in that I had an illegal SBR at the gun show. After showing the detective a copy of my form 1, they said everything was good to go and let me go. I've also seen people walking around the same gun shows with unregistered SBRs as well (started asking friendly questions about their gun, and they admitted it to me) and nothing happened to them. Hmm...I am curious if just seeing an SBR is enough to legally stop someone. ~Norinco |
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Just out of curiosity...Does anyone know someone who has been prosecuted for not following NFA procedures? Not that I advocate deviating in any manner, but the paranoia on this site doesn't seem to correlate with any stories of real imprisonment. Well, about 2 months ago, I went to a local gun show to buy a 10.5" 9mm AR upper. I bring my registered SBR lower into the show, buy the upper, and slap it on right there. I go about my business and leave the show. I get to my car, lock the action open, remove the mag, and place the rifle on my passenger seat (legal to do in Ohio). About a mile from the gun show, I get pulled over by two patrol officers and a detective. The detective said that someone had called in that I had an illegal SBR at the gun show. After showing the detective a copy of my form 1, they said everything was good to go and let me go. I've also seen people walking around the same gun shows with unregistered SBRs as well (started asking friendly questions about their gun, and they admitted it to me) and nothing happened to them. Hmm...I am curious if just seeing an SBR is enough to legally stop someone. ~Norinco Apparently it's not... After the whole ordeal, the officer that pulled me over said he originally pulled me over because I didn't use my turn signal leaving the gun show, but he wasn't going to ticket me for that. I could tell something was fishy, only because when he first pulled me over, he said that a detective had a few questions for me, and the detective showed up about 2 minutes after I was stopped. I don't think the patrol officers knew why he needed to talk to me, just that they had to stop me for some reason. Even so, they were pretty professional and calm about it. |
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