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Simple fix for the rear takedown detent spring blues.... (Page 2 of 6)
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Originally Posted By kaos:
Originally Posted By MetalGold:
I just received my "kit" yesterday and in a matter of 5 minutes, modified 2 of my guns. The hardest part is gauging how much spring to cut for that perfect detent/pin slippie-slidie-feel. It's the same with cutting 1.75 coils off one gun safety detent spring, and 1/2 coil off another safety detent spring so the safety glides smoothly. I imagine you can use this for the safety detent/spring also? Didn't think of that.. |
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Originally Posted By MetalGold: Originally Posted By kaos: Originally Posted By MetalGold: I just received my "kit" yesterday and in a matter of 5 minutes, modified 2 of my guns. The hardest part is gauging how much spring to cut for that perfect detent/pin slippie-slidie-feel. It's the same with cutting 1.75 coils off one gun safety detent spring, and 1/2 coil off another safety detent spring so the safety glides smoothly. I imagine you can use this for the safety detent/spring also? Didn't think of that.. No, 98% of that spring is in the grip. Plus, the set screw diameter is alot bigger. |
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Just finished mine...
Already had the 4-40 tap in my toolbox, I found a 4-40 setscrew at a local hardware store. But all they in 4-40 was stainless steel, and they were the only store in town that had any at all. One thing that has not been mentioned is that stainless steel and aluminum don't always play nice together, This is mainly a problem in marine environments, but it bears consideration in any project where SS and aluminum are involved. SS screws can seize in aluminum, and gall when removed. Probably a non-issue in this case. But just as a precaution, I slathered the setscrew with a thick milsurp gun grease ( the kind that comes in the little plastic cups) before installing it. Better safe than sorry. Marine antiseize compound would be better but I don't have any of that here at home. The heavy grease should be sufficient. |
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Originally Posted By THOLL223:
I do this with all my lowers. 
I just did another RRA lower about an hour ago.........with an 8 x 32 instead .......(I couldnt find my 4x40 tap  )
Works just as well , ya just need to drill a tad outa her first. 
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Tactical Innovations sells all their stripped lowers with this modification already done. $99.00 for their lower and it's a super quality unit. [:D
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Any one have the Fastenal part number. I want to do this but can find the screws on the website.
Thanks MAHA ETA Nevermind 
I found it after using less of a description.
Here is the info for others Fastenal Part No. (SKU) 1125024 UNSPSC 31161505 Manufacturer Fastenal Approved Vendor Category Fasteners > Set Screws > Socket Set Screws |
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What I like about this is when a build may take a few weeks or longer to acquire parts - you don't lose any. When those other parts do come in, these aren't forgotten, or broken. And when you do change something, they aren't lost or broken, and hang up what should have been an easy job.
Adjusting the tension to match the shape of the pin detent is a great plus.It's definitely an easy mod during a lpk assembly. |
| The selector spring would be awfully short by the time you got done closing it off behind a set screw. |
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| All of my AR's (except the retros) have this modification now. The only problem I have had is finging an allen wrench to fit the 4/40 screws. I have been using a fine jewelers flatbladed screwdriver that just fits into the allen screw hole in the 4/40 screw and have not had any problems. Does anyone know the size of allem wrench needed for the 4/40 allen screws?...Thanks....<><....:) |
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You are looking for a 0.050" Allen. Sears has them on a nice handle, same as the typical eye glasses screwdrive uses. You will have to look by all the other small speciality screwdrives to find them.
Here is a Link The Sears here was out of these, I bought a set with small bit that worke but it would have been nice to have this one. MAHA |
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I've been into RC trucks for some 20 years and as said above, Hobby shops are a great source for the set screws.
Q bore, great idea and thanks for sharing. |
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I'm interested in doing this, but I have never used a tap before.
Is it every bit as easy as it sounds, just use a lower receiver vice block so it doesn't move, use a bit of oil, then turn the tap like I would if I was screwing something in? I'm good with tools, I have no problem finishing an entire basement, but I have no experience with die taps and metal working, and I thought I would ask before do anything stupid. |
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Originally Posted By RABIDFOX50:
I've been into RC trucks for some 20 years and as said above, Hobby shops are a great source for the set screws. Q bore, great idea and thanks for sharing. Thanks for the tip. I went from Lowes to Home Depot, and finally took your advice and found it at my local Hobby Lobby along with the 0.050mm Allen wrench. The tap was at Sears just like y'all said. |
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Originally Posted By tel0004:
I'm interested in doing this, but I have never used a tap before. Is it every bit as easy as it sounds, just use a lower receiver vice block so it doesn't move, use a bit of oil, then turn the tap like I would if I was screwing something in? I'm good with tools, I have no problem finishing an entire basement, but I have no experience with die taps and metal working, and I thought I would ask before do anything stupid. Yes it's that easy. Just put the tap on a drill, and run it at low rpms; I used my Dremel tool. I forgot to oil mine during the tap. Oil isn't exactly necessary, but it's nice insurance against screwing up the threads. |
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Originally Posted By Gravity3694: ACK!!!Originally Posted By tel0004: I'm interested in doing this, but I have never used a tap before. Is it every bit as easy as it sounds, just use a lower receiver vice block so it doesn't move, use a bit of oil, then turn the tap like I would if I was screwing something in? I'm good with tools, I have no problem finishing an entire basement, but I have no experience with die taps and metal working, and I thought I would ask before do anything stupid. Yes it's that easy. Just put the tap on a drill, and run it at low rpms; I used my Dremel tool. I forgot to oil mine during the tap. Oil isn't exactly necessary, but it's nice insurance against screwing up the threads. I'm sorry sir, too much homebrew in your shadetree mechanicin', tonight? It may work for you, but it's not the advice to start a green noob off with.I wouldn't screw up your lower on a bet with a powertool and hardened (Read 'Brittle') steel tap and no lube. If you put a little sideways motion on that tap it'll snap off like an icicle, or a glass rod.. Get an approved tap vice, prolly no more than $6 at sears anymore, and use some oil. Hell, CLP will work. Dip the tip of the tap into your oil, and Slowly, 'screw' the tap in about 1.5 turns, stop, and back it out. Make sure you're going in straight and true. This aint no 'ream 'er out and it's good' kind of job. It's precision work. Clean out the millings and chips, and go again. That is a wee lil tap you're using, and a powerful pain in the ass to get out if you snap it off flush in the hole. You can't drill through it in an aluminum body without incurring the wrath of the Forging Goddess. You want a total of approx 1/8" depth for the set screw to go in far enough, and don't forget that you have to trim the spring by the corresponding length that the forward end of the screw depresses the spring. |
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Originally Posted By kaos:
Originally Posted By Gravity3694:
ACK!!!
Originally Posted By tel0004:
I'm interested in doing this, but I have never used a tap before. Is it every bit as easy as it sounds, just use a lower receiver vice block so it doesn't move, use a bit of oil, then turn the tap like I would if I was screwing something in? I'm good with tools, I have no problem finishing an entire basement, but I have no experience with die taps and metal working, and I thought I would ask before do anything stupid. Yes it's that easy. Just put the tap on a drill, and run it at low rpms; I used my Dremel tool. I forgot to oil mine during the tap. Oil isn't exactly necessary, but it's nice insurance against screwing up the threads. I'm sorry sir, too much homebrew in your shadetree mechanicin', tonight? It may work for you, but it's not the advice to start a green noob off with.
I wouldn't screw up your lower on a bet with a powertool and hardened (Read 'Brittle') steel tap and no lube. If you put a little sideways motion on that tap it'll snap off like an icicle, or a glass rod.. Get an approved tap vice, prolly no more than $6 at sears anymore, and use some oil. Hell, CLP will work. Dip the tip of the tap into your oil, and Slowly, 'screw' the tap in about 1.5 turns, stop, and back it out. Make sure you're going in straight and true. This aint no 'ream 'er out and it's good' kind of job. It's precision work. Clean out the millings and chips, and go again. That is a wee lil tap you're using, and a powerful pain in the ass to get out if you snap it off flush in the hole. You can't drill through it in an aluminum body without incurring the wrath of the Forging Goddess. You want a total of approx 1/8" depth for the set screw to go in far enough, and don't forget that you have to trim the spring by the corresponding length that the forward end of the screw depresses the spring. +1 on the ACK!!! Wow - use a drill ???
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Originally Posted By ew22hba:
Originally Posted By kaos:
Originally Posted By Gravity3694:
ACK!!!
Originally Posted By tel0004:
I'm interested in doing this, but I have never used a tap before. Is it every bit as easy as it sounds, just use a lower receiver vice block so it doesn't move, use a bit of oil, then turn the tap like I would if I was screwing something in? I'm good with tools, I have no problem finishing an entire basement, but I have no experience with die taps and metal working, and I thought I would ask before do anything stupid. Yes it's that easy. Just put the tap on a drill, and run it at low rpms; I used my Dremel tool. I forgot to oil mine during the tap. Oil isn't exactly necessary, but it's nice insurance against screwing up the threads. I'm sorry sir, too much homebrew in your shadetree mechanicin', tonight? It may work for you, but it's not the advice to start a green noob off with.
I wouldn't screw up your lower on a bet with a powertool and hardened (Read 'Brittle') steel tap and no lube. If you put a little sideways motion on that tap it'll snap off like an icicle, or a glass rod.. Get an approved tap vice, prolly no more than $6 at sears anymore, and use some oil. Hell, CLP will work. Dip the tip of the tap into your oil, and Slowly, 'screw' the tap in about 1.5 turns, stop, and back it out. Make sure you're going in straight and true. This aint no 'ream 'er out and it's good' kind of job. It's precision work. Clean out the millings and chips, and go again. That is a wee lil tap you're using, and a powerful pain in the ass to get out if you snap it off flush in the hole. You can't drill through it in an aluminum body without incurring the wrath of the Forging Goddess. You want a total of approx 1/8" depth for the set screw to go in far enough, and don't forget that you have to trim the spring by the corresponding length that the forward end of the screw depresses the spring. +1 on the ACK!!! Wow - use a drill ??? It worked. |
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Originally Posted By Gravity3694: I'm not doubting you a bit.Originally Posted By ew22hba: Originally Posted By kaos: Originally Posted By Gravity3694: ACK!!!Originally Posted By tel0004: I'm interested in doing this, but I have never used a tap before. Is it every bit as easy as it sounds, just use a lower receiver vice block so it doesn't move, use a bit of oil, then turn the tap like I would if I was screwing something in? I'm good with tools, I have no problem finishing an entire basement, but I have no experience with die taps and metal working, and I thought I would ask before do anything stupid. Yes it's that easy. Just put the tap on a drill, and run it at low rpms; I used my Dremel tool. I forgot to oil mine during the tap. Oil isn't exactly necessary, but it's nice insurance against screwing up the threads. I'm sorry sir, too much homebrew in your shadetree mechanicin', tonight? It may work for you, but it's not the advice to start a green noob off with.I wouldn't screw up your lower on a bet with a powertool and hardened (Read 'Brittle') steel tap and no lube. If you put a little sideways motion on that tap it'll snap off like an icicle, or a glass rod.. Get an approved tap vice, prolly no more than $6 at sears anymore, and use some oil. Hell, CLP will work. Dip the tip of the tap into your oil, and Slowly, 'screw' the tap in about 1.5 turns, stop, and back it out. Make sure you're going in straight and true. This aint no 'ream 'er out and it's good' kind of job. It's precision work. Clean out the millings and chips, and go again. That is a wee lil tap you're using, and a powerful pain in the ass to get out if you snap it off flush in the hole. You can't drill through it in an aluminum body without incurring the wrath of the Forging Goddess. You want a total of approx 1/8" depth for the set screw to go in far enough, and don't forget that you have to trim the spring by the corresponding length that the forward end of the screw depresses the spring. +1 on the ACK!!! Wow - use a drill ??? It worked. It can work dozens of times, even. Ever broken a tap? Ever broken a tap in a precision milled aluminum lower (that people fret over every last little detail of fit/finish/color/sheen/etc over)? Ever gotten a broken tap out of aluminum? (Hint: The smaller it is, the harder the retrieval is. In fact, the difficulty levels seems to increase logarithmically.) I'm sorry if I'm appearing to be a butt-head here. I'm not calling you out, We're still friends. I'm just saying that I think you were lucky, and luck is a harsh mistress. In my experience- luck frowns on the use of small brittle machine tool bits chucked up in hand-held powertools. |
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Excellent "mod" did it to a few lowers a while ago, and I've added enough screws to do any guns that come apart anywhere near my tool kit
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Originally Posted By kaos:
Ever gotten a broken tap out of aluminum? (Hint: The smaller it is, the harder the retrieval is. In fact, the difficulty levels seems to increase logarithmically.)
I'm sorry if I'm appearing to be a butt-head here. I'm not calling you out, We're still friends. I'm just saying that I think you were lucky, and luck is a harsh mistress. In my experience- luck frowns on the use of small brittle machine tool bits chucked up in hand-held powertools. And those are words to live by right there.
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| I mean do you really need to use a drill???? Turn your wrist a few times and your done. How Lazy are we? |
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Originally Posted By kaos:
Originally Posted By Gravity3694:
I'm not doubting you a bit.
Originally Posted By ew22hba:
Originally Posted By kaos:
Originally Posted By Gravity3694:
ACK!!!
Originally Posted By tel0004:
I'm interested in doing this, but I have never used a tap before. Is it every bit as easy as it sounds, just use a lower receiver vice block so it doesn't move, use a bit of oil, then turn the tap like I would if I was screwing something in? I'm good with tools, I have no problem finishing an entire basement, but I have no experience with die taps and metal working, and I thought I would ask before do anything stupid. Yes it's that easy. Just put the tap on a drill, and run it at low rpms; I used my Dremel tool. I forgot to oil mine during the tap. Oil isn't exactly necessary, but it's nice insurance against screwing up the threads. I'm sorry sir, too much homebrew in your shadetree mechanicin', tonight? It may work for you, but it's not the advice to start a green noob off with.
I wouldn't screw up your lower on a bet with a powertool and hardened (Read 'Brittle') steel tap and no lube. If you put a little sideways motion on that tap it'll snap off like an icicle, or a glass rod.. Get an approved tap vice, prolly no more than $6 at sears anymore, and use some oil. Hell, CLP will work. Dip the tip of the tap into your oil, and Slowly, 'screw' the tap in about 1.5 turns, stop, and back it out. Make sure you're going in straight and true. This aint no 'ream 'er out and it's good' kind of job. It's precision work. Clean out the millings and chips, and go again. That is a wee lil tap you're using, and a powerful pain in the ass to get out if you snap it off flush in the hole. You can't drill through it in an aluminum body without incurring the wrath of the Forging Goddess. You want a total of approx 1/8" depth for the set screw to go in far enough, and don't forget that you have to trim the spring by the corresponding length that the forward end of the screw depresses the spring. +1 on the ACK!!! Wow - use a drill ??? It worked. It can work dozens of times, even. Ever broken a tap? Ever broken a tap in a precision milled aluminum lower (that people fret over every last little detail of fit/finish/color/sheen/etc over)? Ever gotten a broken tap out of aluminum? (Hint: The smaller it is, the harder the retrieval is. In fact, the difficulty levels seems to increase logarithmically.)
I'm sorry if I'm appearing to be a butt-head here. I'm not calling you out, We're still friends. I'm just saying that I think you were lucky, and luck is a harsh mistress. In my experience- luck frowns on the use of small brittle machine tool bits chucked up in hand-held powertools. Fine, I'll call him on something then: "I used my Dremel tool." Did Dremel come out with a low RPM version that I missed? The variable speed low end is 5000rpm!!
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Originally Posted By ew22hba: (I don't own a Dremel. I've got to send my barrels out for fluting, too.) Originally Posted By kaos: I'm not doubting you a bit. It can work dozens of times, even. Ever broken a tap? Ever broken a tap in a precision milled aluminum lower (that people fret over every last little detail of fit/finish/color/sheen/etc over)? Ever gotten a broken tap out of aluminum? (Hint: The smaller it is, the harder the retrieval is. In fact, the difficulty levels seems to increase logarithmically.) I'm sorry if I'm appearing to be a butt-head here. I'm not calling you out, We're still friends. I'm just saying that I think you were lucky, and luck is a harsh mistress. In my experience- luck frowns on the use of small brittle machine tool bits chucked up in hand-held powertools. Fine, I'll call him on something then: "I used my Dremel tool." Did Dremel come out with a low RPM version that I missed? The variable speed low end is 5000rpm!!  |
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Fuck Obama
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Neat mod. Will these work?
http://www.mcmaster.com/#92695A105 |
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After wrecking a rear detent spring yesterday - this is the fix. I also knocked about 1/4 off the spring before install to compensate for set-screw and put a little lube in the hole. Problem solved in only a couple minutes. Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By TigerForce:
Originally Posted By Raven1911:
Do you have to loctite the screw? Does it come loose after firing some rounds are through it? Not unless you aren't affixing a stock or endplate to it. The endplate/front end of the rifle stock fits right up against the rear of the receiver, so that should stop the set screw from backing out. There's another thread somewhere which discusses someone's 4-40 tap breaking off in the hole- I've done a few of these and never had this problem. It's not a bad idea to first practice tapping threads on holes drilled in a piece of aluminum bar stock (from a hardware store). Use oil on the tap threads (I put a drop of ATF on the tap threads, and it trickles down to where it's needed), twist the tap in slowly and carefully, backing it back out after every couple of turns and cleaning off the aluminum cuttings. You just need to tap threads down to ~3/16" depth for a 1/8" set screw. I have machined and tapped a lot of aluminum, kerosene is by far the best cutting lube for aluminum, not that anything else won't work just fine. As for power tapping...How many of you know the difference between a hand tap and a gun tap. Don't go there. I am experienced and would not ever power tap a 4-40 with a hand drill, not to mention that we are only going to a depth of no more than 3/16". Not that it can't be done though. |
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Originally Posted By Gregch44:
Originally Posted By TigerForce:
Originally Posted By Raven1911:
Do you have to loctite the screw? Does it come loose after firing some rounds are through it? Not unless you aren't affixing a stock or endplate to it. The endplate/front end of the rifle stock fits right up against the rear of the receiver, so that should stop the set screw from backing out. There's another thread somewhere which discusses someone's 4-40 tap breaking off in the hole- I've done a few of these and never had this problem. It's not a bad idea to first practice tapping threads on holes drilled in a piece of aluminum bar stock (from a hardware store). Use oil on the tap threads (I put a drop of ATF on the tap threads, and it trickles down to where it's needed), twist the tap in slowly and carefully, backing it back out after every couple of turns and cleaning off the aluminum cuttings. You just need to tap threads down to ~3/16" depth for a 1/8" set screw. I have machined and tapped a lot of aluminum, kerosene is by far the best cutting lube for aluminum, not that anything else won't work just fine. As for power tapping...How many of you know the difference between a hand tap and a gun tap. Don't go there. I am experienced and would not ever power tap a 4-40 with a hand drill, not to mention that we are only going to a depth of no more than 3/16". Not that it can't be done though. +1 on the kerosene, but any thin oil, including your gun oil will work just fine, and i work with aluminum on a daily basis and as said above, power tapping is fine when set up in a mill or lathe, but unless i'm tapping a hundred 1/4" holes in an aluminum plate i never power tap with a hand drill, evn i still mess up a snap taps from time to time and, much less a 4-40 hand tap, just keep the tap straight and remember to back out every turn or 2 and you will be fine. |
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Thanks for the walkthrough!
I got a Magpul ASAP plate and sling for Christmas, and decided that I was going to do this mod when I put the plate on. Thanks to your intructions, and tips from the thread, it went off without a hitch. I have to say, though, I was a bit nervous doing this on my LaRue lower, but I just took it slow and made sure everything was lined up and it worked perfectly. Thanks again.
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Done all four of my six ARs.
My Aero Precision lower and my Spikes Tactical lower both came threaded. Spikes even capture the pin with a set screw
This should only be done by hand. NEVER any power tools. It's soft aluminum and you canot redo. Leave the power tools for those cranky rusty bolts on the car! 
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9mm, 10mm, 45 ACP - Pistol Caliber AR-15s Rock!
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Great mod. Being an experienced machinist/ applications specialist I have a couple comments:
Do not use a drill for soft aluminum. Considering the short depth the threads need to be (3/16" max) you can do that with hand tools. Not to mention, as people have said before, little bitty taps are unforgiving under stress. It it stops turning and feels caught, back it out, clean the area and try again, you should never have to force a tap it should cut like butter with lube. Use an thick grease compound or "swak" which is a teflon-style grease for SS/aluminum apllications when installing the set screw. Aluminum will gall (stick and the threads will come out with the screw) with most materials set screws are made of when installed dry. (Stainless steel is the most common due to its low carbon anti corrosive content) Some anit-seize compounds that contain copper or other fine metal powder can be too grainy and cause damage to the soft threads when taking the set screw in and out. I am sure most of you will not be taking the set screw in and out once it is installed, but Im just throwing my .02 cents. also, the reason why this isnt on all lowers is because of the military/leo field strip issues. Also, it probably has something to do with it affecting the functionality of your rifle if a part like your buttstock is installed incorrectly. |
Simple fix for the rear takedown detent spring blues.... (Page 2 of 6)
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