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Posted: 12/29/2011 5:02:54 PM EDT
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Ok first off, it would be a great help if anyone could answer some questions for me. I am helping my dad build a replica of the M16 he used at the Naval Academy from 1980-85. If anyone knows exactly what model this would have been id appreciate it. (I know the A2 came out during this time but im not sure if the Naval academy got it, or was still using Vietnam stuff). He cant seem to remember if his had the A1 stock and the shiny triangular hand guards, or the A2 fixed stock with the newer hand guards.
So for Christmas i bought a fixed stock thinking it was the A1, but it ended up being a GRAY A2 buttstock. We arent sure if we want to build a regular A2 which leads me to my first question... 1. Do they make black fixed A2 stocks and where can I find them? 2. All the A1 stocks im seeing dont come with the spring, buffer tube, buffer, will these parts from the A2 stock i bought transfer over to it? If not where can i get the other parts for the A1 stock because i cannot find anything but the actual bare stock. 3. Did the A1 have a black stock as standard issue, and the A2 have a grey stock as standard issue? Thanks guys! Ive read around but still cant find the answers im looking for! |
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Quoted:
Ok first off, it would be a great help if anyone could answer some questions for me. I am helping my dad build a replica of the M16 he used at the Naval Academy from 1980-85. If anyone knows exactly what model this would have been id appreciate it. (I know the A2 came out during this time but im not sure if the Naval academy got it, or was still using Vietnam stuff). He cant seem to remember if his had the A1 stock and the shiny triangular hand guards, or the A2 fixed stock with the newer hand guards. So for Christmas i bought a fixed stock thinking it was the A1, but it ended up being a GRAY A2 buttstock. We arent sure if we want to build a regular A2 which leads me to my first question... 1. Do they make black fixed A2 stocks and where can I find them? 2. All the A1 stocks im seeing dont come with the spring, buffer tube, buffer, will these parts from the A2 stock i bought transfer over to it? If not where can i get the other parts for the A1 stock because i cannot find anything but the actual bare stock. 3. Did the A1 have a black stock as standard issue, and the A2 have a grey stock as standard issue? Thanks guys! Ive read around but still cant find the answers im looking for! I'm not a retro expert but here goes: 1. Dunno. I know some guys have rubbed the gray A2 stock with CLP to darken it, but IMO I wouldn't want to do that. 2. The buffer tube, buffer, and spring are the same. You'll need an A1 length stock screw, though. (I believe it's 5/8" shorter than the A2.) I also don't know it the buttplates are the same. 3. Dunno. Let me know if you want to sell the A2 stock. 
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| Gooseboy, I was in Navy boot camp in 1984, and if the Academy was anything like our training, i would think they would have used the older leftover Vietnam stuff. Heck, we were still using M1 Garands up in Great Mistakes. Unless the "O,s" (Officers) got the "high speed low drag" stuff; i,ll stick to my guns and say they had the A1 gear. |
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Quoted:
Ok first off, it would be a great help if anyone could answer some questions for me. I am helping my dad build a replica of the M16 he used at the Naval Academy from 1980-85. If anyone knows exactly what model this would have been id appreciate it. (I know the A2 came out during this time but im not sure if the Naval academy got it, or was still using Vietnam stuff). He cant seem to remember if his had the A1 stock and the shiny triangular hand guards, or the A2 fixed stock with the newer hand guards. So for Christmas i bought a fixed stock thinking it was the A1, but it ended up being a GRAY A2 buttstock. We arent sure if we want to build a regular A2 which leads me to my first question... 1. Do they make black fixed A2 stocks and where can I find them? I've read that Armalite makes a black A2 buttstock 2. All the A1 stocks im seeing dont come with the spring, buffer tube, buffer, will these parts from the A2 stock i bought transfer over to it? If not where can i get the other parts for the A1 stock because i cannot find anything but the actual bare stock. The buffer tube, buffer and spring are the same for an A1 or A2. A2 uses a spacer and a longer buttstock screw to attach it. 3. Did the A1 have a black stock as standard issue, and the A2 have a grey stock as standard issue? All of the A1s I've seen have a black buttstock. I just bought 1976 vintage Colt Sporter 1 and it has the black buttstock, Thanks guys! Ive read around but still cant find the answers im looking for! Your dad was probably using an M16a1. The A1 was still the mainstay service rifle in the early to mid 80s. For example, in the Grenada invasion. |
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Hey. finally a topic on which I can speak with a reasonable level of expertise!
I was a firearms instructor and small arms gunner at the Severn River Naval Station (AKA NavSta Annapolis, across the river from the Academy) from 85-89. I trained more than 4,000 Mids during that time but if your dad was an '85 grad, he would have been leaving as I arrived. We may have passed one another on the range, though! In the late 80's, even our Marine detachment was just getting the A2s. We squids were stuck with M16A1s and M14s (and we liked it that way––we liked it, I tell ya!). If he was trained on the shotgun, it would have been a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500, and his pistol training would have been on God's own pistol, of course. We didn't start training with the 9mm abomination till around '87 or '88. Our M16A1s, however, had been re-arsenaled/refinished, so you might want to build a black A1. You'll want a parked BCG, A1 flash hider, type E stock, green cotton M1 sling...and there's probably a 50-50 chance his rifle had one of those aluminum tabs on it to keep the selector from accidentally being flipped to automatic. (We rarely trained anyone on full auto fire––it was almost entirely primary marksmanship stuff.) if you want to get really close, you could even add spraypaint a rack number on the stock using a small (1") stencil and a low-contrast color (medium gray or OD on the black stock would look about right). Below is an example, but the ones at Annapolis were more muted than this. Oh, and yes, the stock would have been black. 
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I appreciate all the help guys!
We were planning on doing kinda a half ass A1 clone and just buy a 20 inch upper and change out the hand guards and stock. Or is there someway i can still get the A1 upper with the A1 flash hider for just as cheap as a new upper? Basically an ECONOMICAL replica if we can.. Doesnt have to be PERFECT, just kinda close. |
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Or is there someway i can still get the A1 upper with the A1 flash hider for just as cheap as a new upper? Basically an ECONOMICAL replica if we can.. Doesnt have to be PERFECT, just kinda close
Gonna be hard to beat buying a new anything and switching a few cosmetic pieces to make it look kinda right (hand guards and stock). Will it be a true retro? No! Will it probably bug the crap out of you and you then change out pieces until it is close to being a retro? Very possibly and will cost additional coins! Can you build an A-1 upper cheaper than buying brand new? Yes or at least all of mine have been usually cheaper but it will take some additional time and knowledge of parts more than likely while searching for the deals. No one to my knowledge is selling a true A-1 retro configuration. Century is close and probably cheap to some at $650ish. Sure would be considerably cheaper and much easier to do an authentic looking A-2 clone. Figure $800 plus to do a true authentic looking A-1 retro clone if starting from scratch and this doesn't include any engraving or retro extras. If it was me I'd also consider buying a complete Colt SP-1 which in many ways is way more retro accurate than a NDS lower home built retro clone as it's a complete all Colt mfg retro style serial number rifle. These are realistically selling from $750-1000 in most any freestate right now due to our terrible economy and lack of demand for this type of AR configuration. Usually costs me around $650 to do a stripped A-2 lower receiver and the rest all Colt pieces but many of these parts I've had for some time and bought cheap. A surplus A-1 upper complete will run between $400-550 depending on condition. Good luck. It will be a great father and son project. |
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Quoted:
Or is there someway i can still get the A1 upper with the A1 flash hider for just as cheap as a new upper? Basically an ECONOMICAL replica if we can.. Doesnt have to be PERFECT, just kinda close Gonna be hard to beat buying a new anything and switching a few cosmetic pieces to make it look kinda right (hand guards and stock). Will it be a true retro? No! Will it probably bug the crap out of you and you then change out pieces until it is close to being a retro? Very possibly and will cost additional coins! Can you build an A-1 upper cheaper than buying brand new? Yes or at least all of mine have been usually cheaper but it will take some additional time and knowledge of parts more than likely while searching for the deals. No one to my knowledge is selling a true A-1 retro configuration. Century is close and probably cheap to some at $650ish. Sure would be considerably cheaper and much easier to do an authentic looking A-2 clone. Figure $800 plus to do a true authentic looking A-1 retro clone if starting from scratch and this doesn't include any engraving or retro extras. If it was me I'd also consider buying a complete Colt SP-1 which in many ways is way more retro accurate than a NDS lower home built retro clone as it's a complete all Colt mfg retro style serial number rifle. These are realistically selling from $750-1000 in most any freestate right now due to our terrible economy and lack of demand for this type of AR configuration. Usually costs me around $650 to do a stripped A-2 lower receiver and the rest all Colt pieces but many of these parts I've had for some time and bought cheap. A surplus A-1 upper complete will run between $400-550 depending on condition. Good luck. It will be a great father and son project. Hmm, well we already have the lower and LPK, and this is our first AR so im debating on whether or not to go through all that, or build an A2 and leave the A1 for a future project... |
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build an A2 and leave the A1 for a future project..
I don't know what you have for tools but building a stripped lower shouldn't require a major expense. Many tutorials for free on how to do this on www. Any problems with build ask someone here or on the A-2 forum before risking any damage. Do you want to build the upper as this will require a vise, either home fabbed or commercial receiver holding device, hi-temp grease and a barrel nut wrench above the required lower assembly tools. For me these are a set of roll pin punches, mallet, electrical tape, and a flat screwdriver? I recommend for the first timer, building and function testing a stripped lower receiver and purchasing a complete upper or rifle kit to install on your lower. This should have you shooting a brand new AR with a few mags and sling for probably $650ish if buying true milspec quality components. This site is really for models 604 and earlier with a few exceptions. The A-2 site may be better suited depended on the model you choose to replicate. Most here participate on both sites and own many different flavors of AR's. If I was doing my first build I'd look hard at PSA, one of our site vendors who probably had the highest quality components for the coins spent. Ice cream does come in different flavors for a reason. Good luck and the most important part is having fun. The advantage of doing it from scratch is you can pay as you go and only buy the parts you need. If you buy a rifle kit you can sell the LPK to get some coins back as this is usually the savings from paying kit price. Delton another site vendor had some decent stuff pretty reasonable and is considered by many a great starter option. I personally always used J&T (site vendor)but their pricing has increased over time and may be out of budget. As stated if I was starting from scratch I'd look hard at PSA. |
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