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Posted: 12/7/2013 4:56:36 PM EDT
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Gathering up the parts to put together a 22lr upper. Should I include a Taccom pressure plug in the build list or can I get by without one?
I would appreciate any advice you might have. |
| It adds 7 lbs of pressure to the bcg. The stainless conversion bolts will hit the interior of the upper. If you look inside an upper that has a 22 converted bcg, you will see the contact. This plug removes that issue and it also ensures that the bcg returns to battery every single time. |
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It's worth the $7 but I used a synthetic wine cork for a while until I got one. It worked just fine.  I did that also Colonel, but without the cone shape I had to fuss a bit to get the gun to break open. Once I had the real deal it was an open and shut case. 
Ted |
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I did that also Colonel, but without the cone shape I had to fuss a bit to get the gun to break open. Once I had the real deal it was an open and shut case.
Ted Quoted:
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It's worth the $7 but I used a synthetic wine cork for a while until I got one. It worked just fine. I did that also Colonel, but without the cone shape I had to fuss a bit to get the gun to break open. Once I had the real deal it was an open and shut case.
Ted I used a modified screwdriver handle section at first but had a little bit of trouble closing the upper & lower together because I didn't have the lip on the forward edge formed properly. Got the real deal Taccom plug for cheap insurance and my CMMG upper function is excellent. |
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No. The spring/plunger keeps the buffer from coming forward. The Taccom Pressure Plug is cone shaped and sits in front of the buffer. Dave N Thanks. I get some light strikes with one setup, I will give this a try. This is the cheapest thing I've ever bought because of arfcom! |
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It adds 7 lbs of pressure to the bcg. The stainless conversion bolts will hit the interior of the upper. If you look inside an upper that has a 22 converted bcg, you will see the contact. This plug removes that issue and it also ensures that the bcg returns to battery every single time. Not real sure what portion of the upper you're looking at or talking about. The plug puts forward pressure on the back plate of the conversion bolt group keeping it from shifting rearward during recoil. The back of the conversion will peen the thin portion of the lower where the buffer extension threads in. This peening will work harden the metal and eventually crack where the conversion makes contact. The plug does not eliminate all shifting but it does keep it from peening the lower. Also if you have a newer conversion with the brass lock collar to secure it in the chamber bolt lugs you don't need the plug. |
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Why pay money when a couple inches of broom handle (or anything roughly 1" in diameter) will do the same exact thing? Will your broom handle develop new technology? Will your broom handle lead to new accessories? Will your broom handle answer questions and provide answers to the myriad of problems that plague AR 22's? Will your broom handle sell you parts and accessories better than almost any on the market? Yeah, a length of broom handle can save you a few bucks, but every time I buy a product Tim offers I invest in the future of the sport and my satisfaction in owning and shooting free from problems I had in the past. Having Taccom in business is a good idea worth supporting. I give Taccom my money because I get so much more in return on my investment. Broom handles and synthetic corks can't do that. Thank you Tim, I hope you are around for the long haul. Ted |
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Will your broom handle develop new technology? Will your broom handle lead to new accessories? Will your broom handle answer questions and provide answers to the myriad of problems that plague AR 22's? Will your broom handle sell you parts and accessories better than almost any on the market? Yeah, a length of broom handle can save you a few bucks, but every time I buy a product Tim offers I invest in the future of the sport and my satisfaction in owning and shooting free from problems I had in the past. Having Taccom in business is a good idea worth supporting. I give Taccom my money because I get so much more in return on my investment. Broom handles and synthetic corks can't do that. Thank you Tim, I hope you are around for the long haul. Ted Very well stated....... |
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Will your broom handle develop new technology? Will your broom handle lead to new accessories? Will your broom handle answer questions and provide answers to the myriad of problems that plague AR 22's? Will your broom handle sell you parts and accessories better than almost any on the market? Yeah, a length of broom handle can save you a few bucks, but every time I buy a product Tim offers I invest in the future of the sport and my satisfaction in owning and shooting free from problems I had in the past. Having Taccom in business is a good idea worth supporting. I give Taccom my money because I get so much more in return on my investment. Broom handles and synthetic corks can't do that. Thank you Tim, I hope you are around for the long haul. Ted Quoted:
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Why pay money when a couple inches of broom handle (or anything roughly 1" in diameter) will do the same exact thing? Will your broom handle develop new technology? Will your broom handle lead to new accessories? Will your broom handle answer questions and provide answers to the myriad of problems that plague AR 22's? Will your broom handle sell you parts and accessories better than almost any on the market? Yeah, a length of broom handle can save you a few bucks, but every time I buy a product Tim offers I invest in the future of the sport and my satisfaction in owning and shooting free from problems I had in the past. Having Taccom in business is a good idea worth supporting. I give Taccom my money because I get so much more in return on my investment. Broom handles and synthetic corks can't do that. Thank you Tim, I hope you are around for the long haul. Ted I get where you are coming from, but it's still $13 for $2 worth of delrin. I'm a more hands-on kinda guy, and I've got delrin/nylon/uhmw scraps laying around, so I would use that over a broom handle, I was just pointing out the simplicity of the concept. Of course the simplicity is the beauty of it. If Tim is making money on it then more power to him, there will always be a market for .22 conversions and the things that go with them. |
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OP is talking a .22 upper, not a slide-in conversion unit. If I had a .22 upper that needed to use the pressure plug, I'd send the upper back. There is no way a .22 upper bolt assembly should be popping loose and sliding back. MHO, YMMV, etc. Most .22 BCG's will not have a "perfect" fit. All but the CMMG India kit can have movement forward and rear on recoil. Reason is tolerances. High and low ends. The Taccom Pressure plug puts forward pressure against the rear of the .22 BCG back plate, eliminating most all rearward movement. And yes, it is recommended in a CMMG dedicated upper. Dave N |
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I have a dedicated .22 CMMG upper/barrel/collar set up. Is it not recommended to use a plug in this application? I have one in mine currently. I just thought it was extra protection for the lower for the most part. Just curious. It is a legitimate accessory and of real value. While in theory there shouldn't be any play, the real world says different. The least play comes when a single maker (say CMMG) takes the time to fit all of their components, but one place that often has a problem despite best efforts is the rail notch that holds and locates the collar. It is often the culprit that induces a small amount of play. And that notch can open up over time, too. Also, despite MilSpec parts, tolerances do stack. Now take a Frankengun, say a Spikes' ST22 barrel and a CMMG BCG. Once you mix and match you'll find the Spikes collar is a tiny bit loose which can rob the bolt and FP of the inertia required for proper ignition. This isn't the only example, try enough combinations and you'll see what I'm talking about is real. But hey, no one is holding your feet to the fire over this. Do what you want to do, it's that simple. Ted |
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It is a legitimate accessory and of real value. While in theory there shouldn't be any play, the real world says different. The least play comes when a single maker (say CMMG) takes the time to fit all of their components, but one place that often has a problem despite best efforts is the rail notch that holds and locates the collar. It is often the culprit that induces a small amount of play. And that notch can open up over time, too. Also, despite MilSpec parts, tolerances do stack. Now take a Frankengun, say a Spikes' ST22 barrel and a CMMG BCG. Once you mix and match you'll find the Spikes collar is a tiny bit loose which can rob the bolt and FP of the inertia required for proper ignition. This isn't the only example, try enough combinations and you'll see what I'm talking about is real. But hey, no one is holding your feet to the fire over this. Do what you want to do, it's that simple. Ted Quoted:
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I have a dedicated .22 CMMG upper/barrel/collar set up. Is it not recommended to use a plug in this application? I have one in mine currently. I just thought it was extra protection for the lower for the most part. Just curious. It is a legitimate accessory and of real value. While in theory there shouldn't be any play, the real world says different. The least play comes when a single maker (say CMMG) takes the time to fit all of their components, but one place that often has a problem despite best efforts is the rail notch that holds and locates the collar. It is often the culprit that induces a small amount of play. And that notch can open up over time, too. Also, despite MilSpec parts, tolerances do stack. Now take a Frankengun, say a Spikes' ST22 barrel and a CMMG BCG. Once you mix and match you'll find the Spikes collar is a tiny bit loose which can rob the bolt and FP of the inertia required for proper ignition. This isn't the only example, try enough combinations and you'll see what I'm talking about is real. But hey, no one is holding your feet to the fire over this. Do what you want to do, it's that simple. Ted I get what you said but the direction of the thread was, in my comprehension of it, seeming to imply that the plug was of no value in a dedicated upper setup. I didn't run one for quite some time and then picked one up on a whim when ordering other stuff. Didn't notice any real difference upon using it, but it makes sense as to its purpose. Thanks |
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The pressure plug is a cheap little mod to make your dedicated 22lr more reliable.
I have one on my cmmg 22lr barrel/bolt. and Use to run an AGP folding stock that has a set screw for the same function. when that set screw would back itself up (didn't locktite it right away) the gun had light strikes and jams at least once a mag. once tightened back up it ran like a champ. So i'm a firm believer in that some pressure on the rear of the bolt assembly is a good thing and keeps it in place during recoil. |
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With all due respect "can move" have is not acceptable to me. "Should not move" is what I pay for. When the BCG moves excessively in a conversion unit or in a dedicated unit, the pressure plug, tape wrapping the chamber adapter, or whatever is done to stop the fore-aft play no longer is an accessory, it is a necessity and should be included with whatever is bought. If the manufacturers don't make parts that fit a mil spec upper, shame on them; if we, as a community, let them get away with it, and have to buy or make a fix, shame on us.
If it doesn't work as I paid for, I send it back. And, yes, I have sent back two .22 conversion units, and the third one fits too tight but tight is better than slop. The dedicated .22 upper has worked perfectly from day one. They can make good parts and generally do, but when I get bad parts, I send them back. (I have also sent back three out of spec hammers, one trigger, and one extractor on various AR-15 purchases or builds.) Call me picky - I am. I was a certified ISO 9000 auditor for a number of years, so I do know about tolerances and what should be and can be achieved. MHO, YMMV, etc. |
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What's the best way to slow down the bolt speed on a stainless CMMG bolt?
I get an occasional failure to reset the hammer/hammer follow and suspect that I'm getting "disconnector float" due to high bolt speed. I've tried different recoil springs, stretching them, etc, without success. |
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With all due respect "can move" have is not acceptable to me. "Should not move" is what I pay for. When the BCG moves excessively in a conversion unit or in a dedicated unit, the pressure plug, tape wrapping the chamber adapter, or whatever is done to stop the fore-aft play no longer is an accessory, it is a necessity and should be included with whatever is bought. If the manufacturers don't make parts that fit a mil spec upper, shame on them; if we, as a community, let them get away with it, and have to buy or make a fix, shame on us. If it doesn't work as I paid for, I send it back. And, yes, I have sent back two .22 conversion units, and the third one fits too tight but tight is better than slop. The dedicated .22 upper has worked perfectly from day one. They can make good parts and generally do, but when I get bad parts, I send them back. (I have also sent back three out of spec hammers, one trigger, and one extractor on various AR-15 purchases or builds.) Call me picky - I am. I was a certified ISO 9000 auditor for a number of years, so I do know about tolerances and what should be and can be achieved. MHO, YMMV, etc. If you understand tolerances, then you understand tolerance stacking. 10's of thousands of .22 bcg's have been made and sold. These are also made within a tolerance of the spec, high and low. Still in the manufacturers spec. So who do you send the part back too? The BCG for being on one end of the spec or the upper receiver for being on the other end? Slop between upper and lower receivers from the same manufacturer are common. You send those back? Maybe you do. But the fact is, they are still within tolerances. Understand, these are conversions that were made to adapt to a totally different original set up. Even the dedicated uppers. You want a built from scratch AR .22, then the M & P 15 is for you. Dave N |
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With all due respect "can move" have is not acceptable to me. "Should not move" is what I pay for. When the BCG moves excessively in a conversion unit or in a dedicated unit, the pressure plug, tape wrapping the chamber adapter, or whatever is done to stop the fore-aft play no longer is an accessory, it is a necessity and should be included with whatever is bought. If the manufacturers don't make parts that fit a mil spec upper, shame on them; if we, as a community, let them get away with it, and have to buy or make a fix, shame on us. If it doesn't work as I paid for, I send it back. And, yes, I have sent back two .22 conversion units, and the third one fits too tight but tight is better than slop. The dedicated .22 upper has worked perfectly from day one. They can make good parts and generally do, but when I get bad parts, I send them back. (I have also sent back three out of spec hammers, one trigger, and one extractor on various AR-15 purchases or builds.) Call me picky - I am. I was a certified ISO 9000 auditor for a number of years, so I do know about tolerances and what should be and can be achieved. MHO, YMMV, etc. Hate to say this.......Good luck with that. The tolerance build up of parts that could be from ALL over the country......some precision, some not so. A bolt rail that is laser cut and welded to maybe +/-.015, a barrel that sticks in the front of a receiver that has +/-.005, a receiver that for all practical purposes has an OAL of +/-.015....as BTW....it's a ref on the Mil Spec print I believe.....as for the original intended purpose was NOT the 22RF insert. AND who manufactures what? FYI.....you may have an insert that actually sticks out the back of the receiver.....RO...stick in as much as .020" (or more). NOW....lets take the other part into play....you have a STEEL tab....pounding into the back of your lower...EVERYTIME you pull the trigger. Steel vs Aluminum? My bet is on steel. The plug helps the aluminum out some in that respect. Yes.....I believe that ANY 22RF upper made with a Ceiner style bolt assy needs the plug to keep the bolt assy pushed forward and to act as a cushion to prevent wear and tear on your lower. And yes....you rolled the dice....found the perfect insert that for your set up (on the third try).....but it may not fit the next persons setup, was the insert at fault? or the set it went into? YMPMS Tim I understand ISO 9000, ISO 9001.....it works great for manufacturing. But it's more of a say what you are gonna do, and do what you are gonna say.....mainly....a documentation process, and encompasses more than merely tolerance....it defines complete process's. AND....it works for a company, but NOW....you are dealing with something that was retrofitted to work in an upper that was NEVER designed to do that.....OH....and the Ceiner style bolt assy was never engineered. It was more of a hold my beer and watch this bubba.....not good for ISO 9000 and you got lucky on your third try. |
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I mentioned once before somewhere, that if someone was thinking about getting the Extreme Extractor and/or the Enhanced Firing Pin, that they might as well get the Reliability Kit that has the Pressure Plug (and recoil spring) for not much more dough. I went ahead and bought the kit knowing the pin would not work with my problematic Spike's bolt conversion. But I was also planning on going with a CMMG if the problems with the Spike's didn't improve with just the extractor and recoil spring. Danged if they did.
My Ultra Lightweight Barrel showed up this past Saturday. I finished my dedicated .22 build today with that Spike's bolt. And the Pressure Plug. Can't wait to try it out. Thanks Tim! |
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I would like to see a photo of a lower that was cracked in this manner. Can you please point me in the right direction? Quoted:
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This peening will work harden the metal and eventually crack where the conversion makes contact. I would like to see a photo of a lower that was cracked in this manner. Can you please point me in the right direction? Personally.....I doubt that you will find one. This is a 'in theory' thing. It will happen......will you see it happen in your life time? probably not, but it will happen. It does pound on the lower, it will even dent it....it will look like crap. If you ask anyone I've ever explained this to....I may bring it up as a HUGE deal.....the day you start using aluminum, is the day it starts to fail. Then I also explain that while they may never see it happen.....your son, or your son's son may. I guess at that point....we aren't gonna be worring aboutit too much. It is the reason why I designed the plug.....but the other benefits (failure to feed, failure to fire) that it can help, far exceed the wear and tear issue......makes it like chicken soup for the flu; it's not gonna hurt, but it sure can help..... and that makes it a great low cost insurance policy. Tim |
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I would like to see a photo of a lower that was cracked in this manner. Can you please point me in the right direction? Quoted:
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This peening will work harden the metal and eventually crack where the conversion makes contact. I would like to see a photo of a lower that was cracked in this manner. Can you please point me in the right direction? My greatest concern is that as the BCG's tab pounds the lower, the gap condition that set things in play now becomes wider. As the gap becomes wider the inertia required for consistent ignition is diminished. When this happens then reliability goes out the window. Cracking is not an imminent concern. I first reported this gap situation back in 2009 when .22lr AR's became mix and match projects. Shooters were using CMMG bolts on Spikes barrels and vice versa making for some very unhappy members. My "fix" was to use shim material on the BCG locating tab to close the gap but this was just a temporary solution. Others expertly machined spring plungers that fit in the receiver extension and I suspect, those accessories are still up and running. Then along comes Tim and we get a workable, inexpensive solution to solve reliability issues that some shooters would never work out on their own. It's all good, but Tim put his into production and made it available to many, not just a few. Ted |
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My greatest concern is that as the BCG's tab pounds the lower, the gap condition that set things in play now becomes wider. As the gap becomes wider the inertia required for consistent ignition is diminished. When this happens then reliability goes out the window. Cracking is not an imminent concern. I first reported this gap situation back in 2009 when .22lr AR's became mix and match projects. Shooters were using CMMG bolts on Spikes barrels and vice versa making for some very unhappy members. My "fix" was to use shim material on the BCG locating tab to close the gap but this was just a temporary solution. Others expertly machined spring plungers that fit in the receiver extension and I suspect, those accessories are still up and running. Then along comes Tim and we get a workable, inexpensive solution to solve reliability issues that some shooters would never work out on their own. It's all good, but Tim put his into production and made it available to many, not just a few. Ted Quoted:
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This peening will work harden the metal and eventually crack where the conversion makes contact. I would like to see a photo of a lower that was cracked in this manner. Can you please point me in the right direction? My greatest concern is that as the BCG's tab pounds the lower, the gap condition that set things in play now becomes wider. As the gap becomes wider the inertia required for consistent ignition is diminished. When this happens then reliability goes out the window. Cracking is not an imminent concern. I first reported this gap situation back in 2009 when .22lr AR's became mix and match projects. Shooters were using CMMG bolts on Spikes barrels and vice versa making for some very unhappy members. My "fix" was to use shim material on the BCG locating tab to close the gap but this was just a temporary solution. Others expertly machined spring plungers that fit in the receiver extension and I suspect, those accessories are still up and running. Then along comes Tim and we get a workable, inexpensive solution to solve reliability issues that some shooters would never work out on their own. It's all good, but Tim put his into production and made it available to many, not just a few. Ted And yes.....the plug does apply an addtional 7# of force to cushion that impact, as it adds pre-load to the recoil spring in the buffer tube. Tim |
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or you could get a agp folding stock which has an adjustmend to hold the bcg foreward. 
http://www.agparms.com/agp-arms-ar15-folding-stock/ Interesting but it limits you to a dedicatd .22 lower. I keep my lowers set up for other calibers. The Pressure plug is a simple, pop in, pop out part. For what it cures, it's well worth the $7.00 Dave N |
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I believe that it can't fired more than one round folded. At least that is what I remember in testing, way back when.
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So as a right hander, it will lay flatter against your body when slung folded. It's low enough when folded that it shouldn't interfere with ejection. Quoted:
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Why does it fold the wrong way!!!!! So as a right hander, it will lay flatter against your body when slung folded. It's low enough when folded that it shouldn't interfere with ejection. |
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I believe that it can't fired more than one round folded. At least that is what I remember in testing, way back when. Quoted:
I believe that it can't fired more than one round folded. At least that is what I remember in testing, way back when. Quoted:
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Why does it fold the wrong way!!!!! So as a right hander, it will lay flatter against your body when slung folded. It's low enough when folded that it shouldn't interfere with ejection. I guess with most .22 conversions the ejection isn't quite 22.5 degrees like 5.56, but I could be wrong. |
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