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Posted: 2/5/2003 9:24:56 AM EDT
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I called the Colt customer service and talked to one of their reps. I asked him about the .223 vs 5.56. He said the Colt 6400c I have should only be used with .223. The LEO section of their online catalog has their rifles marked as 5.56(.223) and the "civilian" as .223.Are they different specs? Is it safe to use surplus 5.56 in the 6400c's chrome lined bore? Maybe nobody can give me a definite answer but has anyone used 5.56 in a postban Colt? Also is there a 62 grain FMJ in .223? Thanks Chris. |
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Sorry bigbushy. You should not fire 5.56x45mm from a barrel that is marked .223. Most folks make this common mistake. The .223 case is dimensionaly different than the 5.56x45mm. While you can fire .223 from a 5.56 chambered barrel, you cannot fire 5.56 from a .223 barrel. I'm not really sure what type of coating you are talking about. Only Wolf (and other European manufacturers) coat the outside of the case. If you use brass cased ammunition you should have no problems. Chupdog: If your barrel is marked 5.56 NATO in front of the sight tower, you're okay to fire both. If it says .223 you should stick to only .223. -REAPER2502 |
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Hmmm, I'm surprised they have reps - they can't even afford to maintain a decent website! I've got a Colt M4 (.223 stamped on the receiver and 5.56 Nato 1/7 stamped on barrel) and have shot a couple of thousand 5.56 SA surplus and several hundred Federal XM193 5.56; it's worked just fine - am I missing something? How did you get to them? I called the 800 number in the back of the manual and it refers you to a 900 number, which promptly tells you it's not in service, then switches to a recorded message that tells you you have to be 18 and pay $1.99 to talk to them???? |
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Quoted: do not use surplus ammo man that stuff has laqor coating that can cause alot of future jams and eject probs the heaver the bullet the faster twist in a barrel is better ...as far as i know u can use 223 and 556 out of any gun with those markings Surplus is fine, I have shot South African, British, Malaysia, and various other NATO surplus ammo with out any problem, It is that Wolff ammo from Russian that can cause problem because the steel casing require lacquer to function. I have shot 223 and 5.56 in 223 chambered gun with out any ill-effect. but some of the big wigs on this board suggest other wise. |
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Recurring issue. See [url]www.ammo-oracle.com[/url] for a discussion on your question. Bottom line: If the barrel says 5.56, it's OK to fire either 5.56 or .223. If the barrel says either .223 or contains no marking either way, then you CAN fire 5.56 but you assume SOME risk in doing so. Some .223 barrels can fire tens of thousands rounds of 5.56 without a hitch. All .223 barrels have slightly tighter chamber and throat dimensions than 5.56 barrels. Consequently, EVERY ammo mfgr cautions against firing 5.56 in a .223 barrel, because of the potentially excessive pressure buildup that can occur due to the shorter throat. (We're talking fractions of fractions of an inch here, but when you're also talking about high pressure military ammo, those small dimensional variances can lead to big kabooms.) Proceed at your own risk, but with the knowledge that the AR firing system was designed to be extremely robust and countless shooters have fired 5.56 through their .223 barrels without a single problem for years. If you're still worried, you can have your chamber honed out to 5.56 for a very nominal fee by Armalite, Kurt's Kustom Firearms (KKF), or perhaps even your local gunsmith. FWIW |
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Quoted: Quoted: The .223 case is dimensionaly different than the 5.56x45mm. This is false. External case dimensions are identical. The difference is that "5.56mm" ammo is loaded to higher pressures and velocities than commercial ".223Rem" ammo. -Troy Different chamber dimensions though........ |
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Quoted: both my colt MT6400C and my MT6700 barrels are stamped "5.56 NATO", and then the twist rate for each. that means i can safely use 5.56 or .223. the colt reps gotta know this. Thats where I would look too. you wont beleive it though, people read the side of the weapon. Some freak when I use a 7.62x39 lower and shoot .223 GG |
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Has anyone seen a Colt barrel marked .223? I have not. All the Colt barrels I have seen are marked 5.56 NATO. I lost a lot of respect for Colt at the Shot Show last year. I was checking out the then new 6400c. I over heard a guy asking one of the Colt reps a very simple AR related question. The rep had no idea what the guy was talking about. It was like he was asking a computer tech question to a welder (no offence to welders). Colt employs VERY few people who accually know anything about what they are selling. If they have an MBA they get the job. If you want a straight and accurate answer about a Colt AR call Ken Elmore at SAW LE SALES. He teaches the Colt Armorers school for a reason. Colt doesn't have anyone in house that knows more about the AR than he does. |
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In respect to Colt, they have seen better days. However, they are currently in the charge of one Lt. Gen William Keyes, USMC (Ret), who is now the CEO of the company. He loves Colt's heritage and has been working over the last two years to rebuild the company, bring it back from the brink of ruination, and restore the company to its previous place of honor in the firearms industry. In a recent article the general discussed his plans for diversifying the product line, bringing new firearms to the market, bringing back old favorites including the M1911 (original) and the high caliber wheel guns. He also indicated that they are continuing to place emphasis on their AR line of weapons, notably government and LE sales, but also his committment to civilian sales for the Sporters. My general impression is that Colt will be making a comeback in the coming months and years, and with that perhaps lower prices. Finally, then, I'll be happy to bring a Colt into the stable along side my Bushmasters. |
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What Luckystiff said. I, too, have never seen a Colt 6400C barrel marking other than 5.56 NATO, and they all are marked ".223" on the lower. Mine eats LC like there's no tomorrow. Luckystiff's advice about Ken Elmore is gold. I've talked with Ken several times after becoming frustrated by the Colt goons (and they ARE goons; it's amazing to me that they stay in business). Ken has an arrangement with Colt and is on their production floor regularly. He knows more about Colts than Colt does. In my opinion, he should be running Colt. |
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I have fired many brands of "5.56 NATO" ammo through my (supposedly) "tight match" .223 chambed Oly barrels, and have not had a problem. This is in about 15 years of shooting the Oly barrels. I have other rifles marked ".223 Rem", and fired 5.56 ammo through them also without mishap. It is an overblown "problem". As Troy says, 5.56 NATO ammo is loaded to slightly higher pressures than SAAMI .223 ammo. If you would look at reloading manuals and the Army ammo specs, you will see that the M193, for example, is loaded nearly 1 full grain higher with WC844 (which is H335) than shown in reloading manuals for SAAMI .223 Rem. The ammo has the same dimensions. But the chambers of military weapons are purposely looser to allow for smooth feeding with occasional out-of-spec, bent, dented, etc, round that may be fed into it during full auto fire. You CAN safely fire M193 and M855 ammo in your .223 marked barrels. |
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