AR Sponsor
Posted: 9/10/2011 4:03:56 PM EDT
Got a new BCG recently, staking looked okay to me but wanted to verify. If you guys think it needs work I'll probably just hammer it a few times myself. |
| Its fine remember it doesnt take an extreme amount of displaced metal to stop the fasteners from turning it just takes enough to be pushed into the knurled sides of the fastener to keep it from moving...also just as important is tourqing the fasteners because if thats not donr no matter how well staked a fsatner can still loosen because it hasnt been tourqed right. |
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I ran an M16 clone without staking at all for several thousand rounds and it didn't budge. Anyone ever had a carrier key come loose on them? I'm curious because I tend to think the staking thing is taken way out of proportion. I haven't but I've seen it. I do most all the repairs on customers that bring ARs into the store and I've seen it a couple times with carriers that weren't staked, or were staked poorly. Possibly not torqued to the right spec either since one shortcut often means another was taken. |
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Quoted:
I ran an M16 clone without staking at all for several thousand rounds and it didn't budge. Anyone ever had a carrier key come loose on them? I'm curious because I tend to think the staking thing is taken way out of proportion. I have had a carrier key come loose. The staking looked better than what is showing in that picture, but after several thousand rounds it worked its way loose. I started to notice it when I began reloading my own ammo. My rifle was not always cycling the bolt far enough to pick up a new round and I thought it was because the load was too weak. I finally decided to check the carrier key and I could wiggle it with my hand 
Since people will ask, the brand is LMT. I am not talking crap on any manufacturer, just stating my experience. I have shot enough rounds through the rifle that it was time for something to work its way loose, I am just glad it was a simple fix. |
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Quoted:
I ran an M16 clone without staking at all for several thousand rounds and it didn't budge. Anyone ever had a carrier key come loose on them? I'm curious because I tend to think the staking thing is taken way out of proportion. I have had a carrier key come loose. The staking looked better than what is showing in that picture, but after several thousand rounds it worked its way loose. I started to notice it when I began reloading my own ammo. My rifle was not always cycling the bolt far enough to pick up a new round and I thought it was because the load was too weak. I finally decided to check the carrier key and I could wiggle it with my hand
Since people will ask, the brand is LMT. I am not talking crap on any manufacturer, just stating my experience. I have shot enough rounds through the rifle that it was time for something to work its way loose, I am just glad it was a simple fix. Of all carriers I have had, only one Colt carrier has came loose and it was after less than 1k rnds. I love Colt stuff too (and LMT) but it happens I guess. I cleaned it all up, lock tighted it all, re-torqued it down, and punched the staking in better. I have several thousand rnds through it now without a hitch. Mine was wiggling around just like the above one did too. Just goes to show that you should always inspect your gear when you clean your weapons. I check it now on them all. |
| If fasteners come loose with a good staking its because they were not tourqed to the proper foot lbs before staking..thats a QC issue.I wonder besides Colt and maybe BCM what companies actually use a sealer under the key before tourqing or staking the like the way its supposed to be to help prevent gas leakage and makes for a stronger key to carrier seal. |
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What is up with ARFcom's obsession with staking? An unstaked carrier key will function just fine, and probably will never exhibit any problems. Staking is insurance just in case something tries to rattle itself loose. OK, I'll bite... Maybe it is paranoia, insurance, or all of the first hand evidence of non-staked keys coming loose. Either way it is what is called for on that part. Not having properly staked bolts would be like not properly torqing head bolts on an engine. Just my 2 pennies. Do it, don't do it... Who cares, but if you want to know how it is "supposed" to be done, then there you go. If not, read other threads. |
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What is up with ARFcom's obsession with staking? An unstaked carrier key will function just fine, and probably will never exhibit any problems. Staking is insurance just in case something tries to rattle itself loose. Vendors selling staking tools, services, and parts that are "properly staked". Quoted:
If fasteners come loose with a good staking its because they were not tourqed to the proper foot lbs before staking..thats a QC issue. Why on my personal rifles, I prefer to just buy unassembled parts, and put them together myself. |
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Quoted:
What is up with ARFcom's obsession with staking? An unstaked carrier key will function just fine, and probably will never exhibit any problems. Staking is insurance just in case something tries to rattle itself loose. OK, I'll bite... Maybe it is paranoia, insurance, or all of the first hand evidence of non-staked keys coming loose. Either way it is what is called for on that part. Not having properly staked bolts would be like not properly torqing head bolts on an engine. Just my 2 pennies. Do it, don't do it... Who cares, but if you want to know how it is "supposed" to be done, then there you go. If not, read other threads. Staking and torquing are two different things. When you torque a fastener you are applying a preload, actually stretching the fastener. Too little and it can come loose, to much and it can break. Carrier screws can and do come loose. Probably from not being correctly torqued. Staking aids improperly torqued screw from coming loose. Never reuse carrier key screws, use only new grade eight fasteners torqued to 58 in lbs. Threads need to be clean and dry. I do stake the screws (insurance) on my shtf rifles but not on my precision rifles. Staking has been used on military rifles for over one hundred and fifty years (oldest rifle I own with staking) originally it was used to mark the slot in the screw head and act as a visual indication of the screw moving. |
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Quoted:
What is up with ARFcom's obsession with staking? An unstaked carrier key will function just fine, and probably will never exhibit any problems. Staking is insurance just in case something tries to rattle itself loose. OK, I'll bite... Maybe it is paranoia, insurance, or all of the first hand evidence of non-staked keys coming loose. Either way it is what is called for on that part. Not having properly staked bolts would be like not properly torqing head bolts on an engine. Just my 2 pennies. Do it, don't do it... Who cares, but if you want to know how it is "supposed" to be done, then there you go. If not, read other threads. Staking and torquing are two different things. When you torque a fastener you are applying a preload, actually stretching the fastener. Too little and it can come loose, to much and it can break. Carrier screws can and do come loose. Probably from not being correctly torqued. Staking aids improperly torqued screw from coming loose. Never reuse carrier key screws, use only new grade eight fasteners torqued to 58 in lbs. Threads need to be clean and dry. I do stake the screws (insurance) on my shtf rifles but not on my precision rifles. Staking has been used on military rifles for over one hundred and fifty years (oldest rifle I own with staking) originally it was used to mark the slot in the screw head and act as a visual indication of the screw moving. First of all.... Yes I understand that staking and torquing are not the exact same thing, but as was meant by the analogy (not direct comparison) is that it is done for a reason. Same as torque specs, torque patterns, bolt tabs, locking keys, locking pins, and locking screws. We could go through the whole gamut of crap that exists to keep fasteners in place but I would rather not. Simply put, if nothing else then yes, it is good insurance and an action that is so easy to do that it is a big freaking "why not?" Biggest reaso. To do it though is because that it is the spec for the part. That means that someone in the design chain had a valid reason for doing it other than "that's just how it's done" or else every screw and pin on the rifle would have it done. Seeing as their are plenty of reports of these things working lose from factory assembled parts, and even from staked carriers then maybe a valid reason does exist for this to be done. I understand that their exists properly torqued key bolts out there that are not staked and have not come loose, but anecdotal evidence is what it ammounts to. I have seen cars with the majority of their lug nuts missing off of one tire that have clearly been driving around for a long time with no problem. That does not convince me to go take off every other lug nut from my tires just because they "ain't needed". |
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