AR Sponsor
Posted: 4/9/2013 10:15:02 AM EDT
|
I have most of the ingredients to build three, specific rifles. I want to hear some opinions about what I was planning to do so I can buy the rest of the stuff and finish the builds. I have amassed a small arsenal of AR rifles and parts, in it are three, complete, pre-ban rifles (I am in the state of CT where we are no longer Free, so this is important for during the builds and storage). I want to build those three lower receivers into three specific rifles:
1. An SBR with a barrel that is as short as I can legally make it in CT (I think it is 10", but I am waiting for my atty to confirm). A nice tubular rail (maybe Troy Alpha), a bayonet, a nice set of iron sights and a suppressor. (Maybe a red dot, but probably not.) 2. A mid-length rifle with a 16" 300 Blackout barrel (1:7 twist), front iron sight pushed out near the end of the barrel, nice tubular rail, carry handle rear sight, red dot mounted between the iron sights in the scout position for co-witness, scope mounted on the carry handle, bayonet and suppressor. 3. An SPR with a 18" barrel (223/556 with 1:7 twist), flat top receiver with a 1000 yard scope mounted on a tubular rail, red dot mounted at 1 o'clock and a suppressor. I have pretty much everything except those Specific barrels, suppressors and a scope. I have a pile of other barrels, but will probably just get rid of them if what I proposed above is the best way to go. Everywhere I go locally I get conflicting info about what I proposed above, so I hope enough of you guys chime in that I can reach some sense of consensus. I am not looking to get nit-picky crazy here either; I just want to get a good set-up for each of the rifles above and make sure that they can serve their respective roles very well. These rifles are not just for fun -- they may very well see real action. This is part of an arsenal that will be going onto a sailboat that will be sailing almost around the world (if you guys want to hear about the other firearms that are already purchased and planned let me know -- I want to get as much feedback and opinions as possible). The pirates off the coasts of Africa and other parts of the world have unfortunately started to kill people, including whole families with children. I want to make sure everyone on-board is armed and trained before we embark. Thank you |
|
Drop the bayonets.
SBR the 300 blackout and put a suppressor on that. 300BLK is far more effective out of shorter barrels and does well subsonic. Build a 14.5" carbine or 16" midlength with whatever optic (irons, red dot, 1-4x) you feel comfortable with for 1-200yards, If you really want a 1000 yard gun you are going to need atleast .308 and you'll be pushing that caliber. build out an AR-10 or pick up a decent budget bolt gun (remington 770, savage 10) If you really need to suppress everything look into a multi-cal can like the liberty mystic, it can handle all three of those loads. ETA: I have no experience in ship to ship combat but If you really plan on engaging pirates and using these for vessel security, I would build up as many identical AR-15s as possible with that budget, get a few spare parts and then buy loads of ammo. You aren't going to be making 1000 yard shots at sea and suppressors seem kind of pointless. Just build up some simple 14.5"-16" guns and load up on the ammo. It also seems as though you are after a few things that aren't even legal in CT, which is none of my business so do whatever makes you happy. Most NFA items aren't necessary. It personally makes my head want to explode that we have to pay our government for permission to own these items, and if they were easier to get I might look into them, but there is really no need for suppressors or SBRs unless you have a very particular goal you are trying to accomplish. And for what is sounds like you want to use them for (the AR-15s) I would probably go without them even if it wasn't a hassle. |
|
What do you know about:
CT laws regarding AR-15's, magazine capacity, NFA? NFA laws? Maritime law? I ask because you imply you want to be lawful however being from CT and having a desire for many things I believe that state does not allow you to have what you seek. A brief preview of the above laws regarding firearms, bbl. length, suppressors, etc.. will go far in helping you maintain your lawful status. |
|
OK, a couple things real quick so we don't get off track off the bat:
Don't worry about laws -- I have an atty here in CT that I will follow his advice. Maritime Law I am not planning to abide to; some of you may strongly disagree, but it is a choice I had to make. As my six year old son will be on board for a stretch in the Med, I am not taking any chances. I am also not willing to give up on a life-long dream because some human waste got their hands on AKs and fasties. There will be a .50 cal and a Remington 700 (or similar) along for the voyage. As well as, a couple Remington Mariner 870s with pistol grips and buffers (I can post pics later) and an assortment of pistols 9mm, .40 and .45. |
| I'll once again urge you to simplify and consolidate your gun collection. I would sell everything I can and build an arsenal of AR-15s and your caliber and model of choice in a pistol. Identical parts, identical mags, and identical ammo. Probably couldn't hurt to keep a shotgun or two on board as well. How big is your crew going to be? If you really need a high powered rifle (I'm sure you know better than I how nearly impossible it would be to snipe someone or something from your moving, rocky boat that is stationed on another moving, rocky boat. But if you're absolutely set I would pick one rifle in .308 or above and call it a day. Simplifying seems the best thing you can do here. Carrying 20 different types of weapons, parts, mags and ammo seems ridiculous. |
|
Clone 3-4 14.5''ers with red dots or 1-6's if you think you're going to be shooting at a little bit of distance. I'd actually go for a PTR91 or a FAL or Scar 17 strapped with some magnification if you're going to be shooting some distance at sea. I say this because .308, accurate enough, and semi automatic. If you had any kind of engagement at sea I'd just keep dumping rounds at distance until I could bring them in nice and close on the target. As for handguns I'd just get everything in 9 or 45 and go with a box of glocks tbh.
|
|
Quoted:
My only suggestion would be to combine 1 and 2. If you haven't already, see if you can find a way to shoot a suppressed SBR .300 blackout. The combination makes for an outstanding weapon. What do you mean by combine 1 and 2 exactly? Make two SBRs with 300 BO barrels and suppressors? Or, two rifles with 16" 300 BO barrels and suppressors? |
|
Quoted:
Drop the bayonets. SBR the 300 blackout and put a suppressor on that. 300BLK is far more effective out of shorter barrels and does well subsonic. Build a 14.5" carbine or 16" midlength with whatever optic (irons, red dot, 1-4x) you feel comfortable with for 1-200yards, If you really want a 1000 yard gun you are going to need atleast .308 and you'll be pushing that caliber. build out an AR-10 or pick up a decent budget bolt gun (remington 770, savage 10) If you really need to suppress everything look into a multi-cal can like the liberty mystic, it can handle all three of those loads. ETA: I have no experience in ship to ship combat but If you really plan on engaging pirates and using these for vessel security, I would build up as many identical AR-15s as possible with that budget, get a few spare parts and then buy loads of ammo. You aren't going to be making 1000 yard shots at sea and suppressors seem kind of pointless. Just build up some simple 14.5"-16" guns and load up on the ammo. It also seems as though you are after a few things that aren't even legal in CT, which is none of my business so do whatever makes you happy. Most NFA items aren't necessary. It personally makes my head want to explode that we have to pay our government for permission to own these items, and if they were easier to get I might look into them, but there is really no need for suppressors or SBRs unless you have a very particular goal you are trying to accomplish. And for what is sounds like you want to use them for (the AR-15s) I would probably go without them even if it wasn't a hassle. The suppressors are honestly sort of for fun, however, they do allow firing at night without giving away position. The SBR was going to be MY cabin weapon and everyone else was getting pistol trained. So maybe do two 14.5" carbines in 300 BO with suppressors and ditch the SBR (and keep the SPR)? Or two 10" SBRs in 300 BO with suppressors (and an SPR)? Thanks! |
|
Quoted:
I'll once again urge you to simplify and consolidate your gun collection. I would sell everything I can and build an arsenal of AR-15s and your caliber and model of choice in a pistol. Identical parts, identical mags, and identical ammo. Probably couldn't hurt to keep a shotgun or two on board as well. How big is your crew going to be? If you really need a high powered rifle (I'm sure you know better than I how nearly impossible it would be to snipe someone or something from your moving, rocky boat that is stationed on another moving, rocky boat. But if you're absolutely set I would pick one rifle in .308 or above and call it a day. Simplifying seems the best thing you can do here. Carrying 20 different types of weapons, parts, mags and ammo seems ridiculous. That was my original thought too about keeping everything the same. But, my thought was that if we carried a somewhat diverse arsenal we would have a better chance to find ammo or parts if something was to happen. I would rather have two 9mm pistols and down two .40s and two .45s VS down six .45s. That was my line of thinking anyway, I could be totally wrong. When we get to Nigeria, we were planning to grab a handful of AK-47s as well. I think those will be the bread and butter for most of the world's voyage. Would be a crew of eight adults at most times, with extra children and adults here and there during the trip. I have friends in Spain that are jumping on board to Greece, I have friends in Greece area jumping on board for another stretch. And, there a re a bunch of old high school buddies and their wives getting on board in the Pacific around Australia and New Zealand. The "core" crew will about six adults -- man/wife teams. The bayonets are for utility and fishing. I don't plan on ever letting anyone get close enough to use a bayonet, but I'd rather have and not need... I am guessing that a warning shot with the Remington 700 (or similar) will be the only deterrent we need (or the .50 to sink them). But, I have read stories on the sailing forums that have scared the shit out of me. I would rather be over-armed than dead. |
|
Quoted:
Clone 3-4 14.5''ers with red dots or 1-6's if you think you're going to be shooting at a little bit of distance. I'd actually go for a PTR91 or a FAL or Scar 17 strapped with some magnification if you're going to be shooting some distance at sea. I say this because .308, accurate enough, and semi automatic. If you had any kind of engagement at sea I'd just keep dumping rounds at distance until I could bring them in nice and close on the target. As for handguns I'd just get everything in 9 or 45 and go with a box of glocks tbh. Hmm. Glocks are the only brand of pistol going on board. So, 9mm and .45 -- I read that a lot. |
|
A warning shot will not scare off the Professional pirates and would be answered by a steady barrage of 7.62x39.
You obviously know this and is the reason for your arsenal and your questions. Sounds like a great trip! May I ask what size vessel you will be sailing? |
|
Quoted:
Clone 3-4 14.5''ers with red dots or 1-6's if you think you're going to be shooting at a little bit of distance. I'd actually go for a PTR91 or a FAL or Scar 17 strapped with some magnification if you're going to be shooting some distance at sea. I say this because .308, accurate enough, and semi automatic. If you had any kind of engagement at sea I'd just keep dumping rounds at distance until I could bring them in nice and close on the target. As for handguns I'd just get everything in 9 or 45 and go with a box of glocks tbh. 14.5" in 300 blackout? There is going to be a .50 cal Barret and something along the lines of a Remington 700 for reaching out. The thought behind an SPR type rifle and carbines is that if it is really turbulent we can all still fire out 200 to 1000 yards (more with the .50 cal of course). Just because a potential threat gets in close, doesn't mean the R700 and .50 are useless though. But, shooting off rounds out of a light-weight, semi-automatic is much easier than using a bolt action or huge .50 cal, in case things get close and the sea is angry. So, you guys think go with a .50 cal Barret, R700 (or similar), backed up by 2-3 ARs with 14.5", 300 blackout barrels with 1:7 twist? The AK-47s are on the agenda, but they are not guaranteed a done deal. So, we plan as if we won't have them, but are bringing some ammo in case we do. From what I gathered from other people making similar voyages, it is mostly a series of warning shots that is necessary to deter pirates and human waste. My buddies and I just happen to be of like mindset and would like to see the seas free of child murdering pirates. I am not saying we are going hunting, but we will be taking more of a stand your ground attitude. |
|
Quoted:
A warning shot will not scare off the Professional pirates and would be answered by a steady barrage of 7.62x39. You obviously know this and is the reason for your arsenal and your questions. Sounds like a great trip! May I ask what size vessel you will be sailing? We will probably be getting a BENETEAU 50, or something along those lines. I am ready to pull the trigger, but two of us (not me and mine) really want a catamaran. I understand why, but it is not what I want and I am the boss. Haha. But, their arguments are worth investigating. I have only sailed on smaller sized catamarans, so I need to get on board a larger vessel and really check it out. I have this sick feeling I am going to be sucked in by it's lazy-boy comfort. Gawd I hope not though. I want to sail an old school design done up with new technology. I just love classic style sailboats. This summer we will be preparing on whatever we get. Next summer we embark. My French, socialist friends did transatlantic voyages on 42 - 46' and I think even 52' sailboats and did quite well -- that is, besides all the puking during 40+ foot waves. They sailed both ways. I will be meeting up with them near Morocco. All the sailing in the Med will be easy. I am really only scared about the Atlantic crossing and some of the Pacific sailing. I hope we all have the balls to cross the Atlantic. If, at the end of this season, we chicken out on that portion, we will meet up with the boat probably in Spain. No poking fun about this unless you did it yourself! Yes, I am afraid of Mother Nature for sure. The force of the ocean is nothing to be reckoned with. A bunch a professional pirates, on the other hand, should be fun since we will be well trained and prepared. Luckily, we have a place here in CT that does real, 360 degree training, called King 33 -- including hand-to-hand. We are going to start simunition training pretty soon. I don't know if any of you guys have done simunition training, but this should be very helpful. I am looking forward to seeing what my five years of competition Jiu Jitsu and MMA looks like against a Green Beret too. I never did Krav Maga (but plan to soon), but a lot of the Jiu Jitsu techniques can be used for stand up CQC slightly altered same principles. Should be a lot of fun. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
My only suggestion would be to combine 1 and 2. If you haven't already, see if you can find a way to shoot a suppressed SBR .300 blackout. The combination makes for an outstanding weapon. What do you mean by combine 1 and 2 exactly? Make two SBRs with 300 BO barrels and suppressors? Or, two rifles with 16" 300 BO barrels and suppressors? Sorry for not being more clear... My suggestion was that a single rifle configured as a .300 BO SBR and suppressor would be a great choice. And should be able to perform all of the requirements of both your number 1 and number 2 descriptions. |
|
I honestly would forego the 300 Blackout altogether as part of a caliber consolidation and stockpiling. If you do decide to go with it, use it in the SBR where it is most advantageous, kind of a waste to use it in the 16" and 5.56 in the SBR.
Also, making the SBR and Mid-length bayonet capable is going to be tough, both of the setups you describe won't work with a bayonet. I would forego this and just have utility knives for everyone since your primary purpose for the bayonet is a utility knife. The SPR I would make a .308 as well so you can better utilize that platform for the purpose. A semi and bolt action .308 putting rounds on target will trump a 5.56 semi and .308 bolt. |
|
OK, I think this is starting to make sense to me. So, 300 BO would be good for SBRs, but anything reaching out to ranges past that would be better served by .223/5.56 and especially .308 and up.
So, my main concern based on scenarios I have read about is this: we are sailing along and a go-fast (or a go-faster than us) is approaching and we need to stop and/or deter them before they get into a range that their AK-47s can become any type of a serious problem (picking us off, not hitting our sails kind of threat). My thought was two of us that are trained on a .50 and .308 could handle the situation, but if it is really choppy, the ARs would really play a large part in backing up the longer reaching firearms, if for anything else just by sure quantity of ammo unloaded at the target(s) the odds are improved that something hits well and they fail. What range can a 300 BO SBR be accurate at? 200-300 yards? Maybe we would be better off with the other advice and go with the 14.5-16" 223/556 barrels and skip the BO all together? I mean if they get in as close as 200-300 yards and we have a .50 cal semi automatic Barret, they will be in a world of hurt. Kind of makes the SBRs pointless. If they get in to boarding range the SBRs would be good, but I am starting to think maybe the shotguns are the best solution for that situation. Thanks for the opinions and input guys. |
| It can be accurate up to 700 yards (if I remember right Travis Haley shows this in some video on youtube) but the bullet drop is insane and there just isn't much left at the end. While I love my 300blk I don't think that's what you need here. Ammo is hard to come by for the Blackout right now and unless you want to reload. Lets face it if a boat full of pirates comes close enough where you need an sbr your in trouble. I think what your wanting is for the person coming after you to realize that your not worth the trouble and nothing is going to say that better than high numbers of lead heading there way. That's why I think the 223/556 is the best option. Decent range, mags with high capacity and they are easy to maintain and modify. |
|
You pretty much nailed it on the head, SBRs and suppressors would be pointless. 300BLK works great and is a good equivalent to 5.56 but you need to have realistic expectations of 5.56 as well, it is not a long ranged round.
If I were on land (so expect your distances to be even lower I would break it down like this) 700-300 yards - some type of rifle (.308 or your .50) 300-25 yards - 14.5" to 16" 5.56 ar-15 25-0 yards - shotguns last line of defense - handguns |
|
Quoted:
You pretty much nailed it on the head, SBRs and suppressors would be pointless. 300BLK works great and is a good equivalent to 5.56 but you need to have realistic expectations of 5.56 as well, it is not a long ranged round. If I were on land (so expect your distances to be even lower I would break it down like this) 700-300 yards - some type of rifle (.308 or your .50) 300-25 yards - 14.5" to 16" 5.56 ar-15 25-0 yards - shotguns last line of defense - handguns .50 - 1500 - 100 yards (anything off the boat) 12ga. - 25-0 yards (anything on the boat) 9mm/45ACP handgun - fight way back to shotgun |
|
Quoted:
You pretty much nailed it on the head, SBRs and suppressors would be pointless. 300BLK works great and is a good equivalent to 5.56 but you need to have realistic expectations of 5.56 as well, it is not a long ranged round. If I were on land (so expect your distances to be even lower I would break it down like this) 700-300 yards - some type of rifle (.308 or your .50) 300-25 yards - 14.5" to 16" 5.56 ar-15 25-0 yards - shotguns last line of defense - handguns Thanks everyone for opinions and advice this was highly constructive. The above makes total sense to me -- and it sure is a helluva lot simpler as some of you said. |
|
Keep the SBR @ 10" ish. If you want 300blk then do it on this weapon but keep a short rifle to use below deck if it comes to that. (I'd keep it 5.56 for continuity of rounds)
Then do 2 16" mid length gas system weapons in 5.56 If you want a longer distance rifle go 7.62x51 in a 18-20" platform Look at the Remington 870 home defense models in 12ga (doesn't mossberg make a stainless steel maritime pump?) Look at Kevlar helmets and plate carriers with steel rifle plates |
AR Sponsor