AR Sponsor
Posted: 9/14/2015 8:46:25 AM EDT
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Hello everybody, just bought an AR-15 and decided to post to ask a question.
Is it normal for the trigger to behave like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjyl91oF7Qo This is a low end AR15 from the Chinese Norinco. It should be all milspec. It's my first AR15 and this trigger seems pretty strange to me. Do you think there is a problem with this rifle? |
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No, not normal...
Make sure all the springs are correctly installed.... specifically the "Disconnector Spring". 
It is the little one in the top left corner..... one end is oversized, that end goes into the trigger. It also appears to be a very rough pull... a LITTLE GENTLE polishing would help.... ( You don't want to polish through the "Hardened" surfaces. ) Can you take a Video of the trigger being pulled from the top ... so we can see the action ? |
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No, not normal... Make sure all the springs are correctly installed.... specifically the "Disconnector Spring". http://www.ar15.com/content/guides/assembly/lower/trigger.gif It is the little one in the top left corner..... one end is oversized, that end goes into the trigger. It also appears to be a very rough pull... a LITTLE GENTLE polishing would help.... ( You don't want to polish through the "Hardened" surfaces. ) This, or it really is just a terrible quality trigger with bad sear geometry. |
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OP, drop me a PM. If you send me that defective trigger, and I'll send you a Mil Spec one. I have a bunch sitting around in the parts bin. I wouldn't mind seeing what the Chinese are screwing up nowadays, Thank you for the generous offer, but I live in Italy. No way I can send gun parts to US. Also thanks to everybody for the advices. Doing the video from top as soon as I can. |
| There is some serious jail time due if one starts shipping gun parts in or out of the EU without proper licenses and a ton of other paperwork. I have sent many small packages to my brother in Austria that contained little toys for his son. The customs over there teared each and every package I have sent him over the years open to see what's in them, and resealed it with a customs tape. My family also sent me many packages over the years to the US, and not one of them was ever opened. I am so glad that I moved away from there, it sucked so bad. |
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There is some serious jail time due if one starts shipping gun parts in or out of the EU without proper licenses and a ton of other paperwork. I have sent many small packages to my brother in Austria that contained little toys for his son. The customs over there teared each and every package I have sent him over the years open to see what's in them, and resealed it with a customs tape. My family also sent me many packages over the years to the US, and not one of them was ever opened. I am so glad that I moved away from there, it sucked so bad. That is interesting - especially when you compare your experience to European data privacy laws, which are supposedly very strong and where there is respect for privacy. |
| CyberIntel, even the possession of firearm parts of a semi-auto firearm for instance will get you into deep trouble if you don't have "waffenbesitzkarte" (weapon possession card). Also, one has to keep a pistol locked up in a safe. The cops come knocking at random times to see if you still have your gun, and if you locked it up properly. You don't have to let them in without a search warrant. But they will come back with one the same day. Most European countries are extreme socialist states where the sheep's listen good. Some "friends" I had over there are avoiding me since I moved to the states. Because I live in a war thirsty, resources stealing world police state now. These people fail completely to understand that there would be no more Europe without a world police. |
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Can you take a Video of the trigger being pulled from the top ... so we can see the action ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IduKhNNDn7g I hope the angle is right. |
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CyberIntel, even the possession of firearm parts of a semi-auto firearm for instance will get you into deep trouble if you don't have "waffenbesitzkarte" (weapon possession card). Also, one has to keep a pistol locked up in a safe. The cops come knocking at random times to see if you still have your gun, and if you locked it up properly. You don't have to let them in without a search warrant. But they will come back with one the same day. Most European countries are extreme socialist states where the sheep's listen good. Some "friends" I had over there are avoiding me since I moved to the states. Because I live in a war thirsty, resources stealing world police state now. These people fail completely to understand that there would be no more Europe without a world police. I know. I'm familiar with German weapons law - although not Austrian law. But it's the invasion of privacy (opening mail????) that's different and fucked up. |
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I know. I'm familiar with German weapons law - although not Austrian law. But it's the invasion of privacy (opening mail????) that's different and fucked up. Quoted:
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CyberIntel, even the possession of firearm parts of a semi-auto firearm for instance will get you into deep trouble if you don't have "waffenbesitzkarte" (weapon possession card). Also, one has to keep a pistol locked up in a safe. The cops come knocking at random times to see if you still have your gun, and if you locked it up properly. You don't have to let them in without a search warrant. But they will come back with one the same day. Most European countries are extreme socialist states where the sheep's listen good. Some "friends" I had over there are avoiding me since I moved to the states. Because I live in a war thirsty, resources stealing world police state now. These people fail completely to understand that there would be no more Europe without a world police. I know. I'm familiar with German weapons law - although not Austrian law. But it's the invasion of privacy (opening mail????) that's different and fucked up. Apparently not. If you mail packages to Europe, you have to fill out a customs form here in the states, where you have to list all items and the value of each item that are in the package. It was only a few dollars in my case, under 20 euros. If the value is over a certain amount (more than 22euros, excluding shipping and insurance), then you have to pay a duty-fee. They open your mail anyway, regardless if the value of the items do not exceed 22 euros. So basically, there is no privacy law when it comes to mail from a foreign non-EU country. And if there is one, it's being ignored. http://www.dutycalculator.com/country-guides/Import-duty-taxes-when-importing-into-Austria/ |
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Doing the video I've noticed this: http://oi60.tinypic.com/315jpuf.jpg can this be part of the problem? That hook on the hammer is there to engage the disconnector when the hammer is recocked with the trigger held to the rear during cycling. Releasing the trigger forward causes the disconnector to release the hook on the hammer allowing it to reengage the sear notch on the hammer with the nose of the trigger. |
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The FCG holes look to be oversize (or the pins undersized) allowing the trigger and hammer pins to move around. Check the diameter of the holes and pins. That's normal. What's normal? FCG pins rotating in the holes. |
| OP, the trigger not returning after you squeezed it is normal, and won't reset unless the hammer is cocked again, but the rough pull can be attributed to a couple of things. First, cock the hammer with your thumb, then press down slightly on the hammer and hold it, repeatedly squeeze and release the trigger to check that the receiver wall and pivot of the trigger are not binding and has smooth rotation (this will also rule out a possible pin binding). If this checks out, examine the trigger tail to verify clearance with the notch on the safety selector. Last, Check the trigger sear where it engages the hammer to ensure smooth surfaces on each, then perform a normal function check to see if there is any interference when the two surfaces attempt to re engage, if there is then more troubleshooting is necessary to determine what is out of spec (Pin hole placement, trigger sear too long etc..) |
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OP, the trigger not returning after you squeezed it is normal, and won't reset unless the hammer is cocked again, but the rough pull can be attributed to a couple of things. First, cock the hammer with your thumb, then press down slightly on the hammer and hold it, repeatedly squeeze and release the trigger to check that the receiver wall and pivot of the trigger are not binding and has smooth rotation (this will also rule out a possible pin binding). Quoted:
OP, the trigger not returning after you squeezed it is normal, and won't reset unless the hammer is cocked again, but the rough pull can be attributed to a couple of things. First, cock the hammer with your thumb, then press down slightly on the hammer and hold it, repeatedly squeeze and release the trigger to check that the receiver wall and pivot of the trigger are not binding and has smooth rotation (this will also rule out a possible pin binding). checked, the action is very smooth with the hammer held down If this checks out, examine the trigger tail to verify clearance with the notch on the safety selector. checked and ok Last, Check the trigger sear where it engages the hammer to ensure smooth surfaces on each, then perform a normal function check to see if there is any interference when the two surfaces attempt to re engage, if there is then more troubleshooting is necessary to determine what is out of spec (Pin hole placement, trigger sear too long etc..) I guess the sear could be the problem. It doesn't look really good. Will post a couple of photo as soon as I buy the punch needed to take down the trigger assembly. There's any risk involved in trying to polish the sear? I've never tried polishing any weapon part but I think this could be a good one to start with |
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Just curious, what's the price range for AR's in Italy? You can find cheaper starting from about 900€. Norinco like mine or S&W mp15 sport. For something better like a Sig M400 1300€. Piston driven like Ruger SR-556 2300€. Also parts are pretty expensive. And laws are pretty stupid. For example, you can't actually have more than 3 "common weapons" (armi comuni). And that includes any pistol and "what looks like a war firearm capable of full auto". And this ain't a simplification, the law is exactly this stupid. Also, you have to report to authorities any firearm, ammunition or high capacity magazine(!) you buy. And, yes, police can came knocking at your door at any time to check if everything is well kept. And they don't even need a search warrant in Italy. |
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checked, the action is very smooth with the hammer held down checked and ok I guess the sear could be the problem. It doesn't look really good. Will post a couple of photo as soon as I buy the punch needed to take down the trigger assembly. There's any risk involved in trying to polish the sear? I've never tried polishing any weapon part but I think this could be a good one to start with Quoted:
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OP, the trigger not returning after you squeezed it is normal, and won't reset unless the hammer is cocked again, but the rough pull can be attributed to a couple of things. First, cock the hammer with your thumb, then press down slightly on the hammer and hold it, repeatedly squeeze and release the trigger to check that the receiver wall and pivot of the trigger are not binding and has smooth rotation (this will also rule out a possible pin binding). checked, the action is very smooth with the hammer held down If this checks out, examine the trigger tail to verify clearance with the notch on the safety selector. checked and ok Last, Check the trigger sear where it engages the hammer to ensure smooth surfaces on each, then perform a normal function check to see if there is any interference when the two surfaces attempt to re engage, if there is then more troubleshooting is necessary to determine what is out of spec (Pin hole placement, trigger sear too long etc..) I guess the sear could be the problem. It doesn't look really good. Will post a couple of photo as soon as I buy the punch needed to take down the trigger assembly. There's any risk involved in trying to polish the sear? I've never tried polishing any weapon part but I think this could be a good one to start with There is no risk in polishing the surfaces if you do it correctly. In a worse case scenario, it might even require dressing and truing beforehand, but you won't know until you get a better look at each surface. Once you remove the fire control group, please post photos of the two contact surfaces and I can offer you some advice on which approach and technique I would use if it were my rifle. |
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Here are the pics of the fire control group
http://imgur.com/a/zEyVK |
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Ciao! one of my ar15s is also a norinco and the trigger is pretty much the same.. it has quite a bit of gritty creep.
i reckon its normal and its caused by the trigger parts not being very polished. Can you tell me what year it was made? mine is 2012.. supposedly the newer ones are better.. supposedly. Hint: buy lots of 30 rounders before november, thats when the mag law comes into effect. |
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The trigger may be normal but I really hate it! Ruins a good rifle. Mine is a 2012 too (if I'm interpreting correctly the registration number).
For the mags... you don't actually need to buy more 29ers than you need. You will still be able to buy them after november, but only new ones from the gun shop, not used ones from other people. This also means that you will have to keep the ones you bought. I've checked several sources and this interpretation seems the right one. And I'm writing this in english so other people can read and laugh at our stupid laws. |
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if yours is marked IT 2012 then youre out of luck. i have personally fired 2 from 2012 and they have aweful triggers, and i have also fired a more recent norionco that belongs to a friend of mine and the trigger was good. since yours is also bad and from 2012 then i assume they have since improved their triggers.
I have tried a colt trigger from a full auto m4 of the army SF and boy it sucked! wasnt shit like the norinco but it had a long mushy pull. my nuova jager ar15 has a short take up before it breaks. best ive tried so far.. i'm sure custom triggers are something on another level altogether. the ideal would be a two stage trigger. when i tried the colt i was surprised that it was so mushy.. mightve been an old and badly used weapon though. if you dont mind the not-so-great external finish of the norinco you can just start customizing it by buying a custom trigger and installing it. The internals (chromed barrel & chamber; phosphate outer barrel) are good quality and will not let you down. the bolt and carrier look horrible, machine marks all over, but they work. it even comes with ambi safety from the factory! XD as for the mags: if you have to register them you will be accountable for them. buying them now means you can just make them dissappear, so when they get banned altogether next year or so, you'll still have some. sadly USA aint so great on gun laws nowadays either i hear. many states have banned true ar15s entirely (cali; NY, that i know of) i assume you bought your m4 used? how much did you pay for it? |
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There is some serious jail time due if one starts shipping gun parts in or out of the EU without proper licenses and a ton of other paperwork. I have sent many small packages to my brother in Austria that contained little toys for his son. The customs over there teared each and every package I have sent him over the years open to see what's in them, and resealed it with a customs tape. My family also sent me many packages over the years to the US, and not one of them was ever opened. I am so glad that I moved away from there, it sucked so bad. Havent had many problems getting stuff in, at least on my end.. got a charging handle and 2 rifle optics from the US via ebay, didnt even pay customs the last time. unfortunately not many sellers ship internationally, their loss. |
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The reason that the pull feels so gritty and binding is due to friction between the engagement surfaces, being entirely phosphated at those areas. Normally, the components are phosphated, then dressed on the ends and polished to a mirror-like finish, but this is not the case on those Norinco parts. Personally, I would use 3000 grit wet/dry sandpaper, attached with double-sided tape to a flat piece of bar stock, then go over the ends very lightly by applying even pressure and making sure to keep it flush. ,,,,one stroke at-a-time and re check. The object here is to not remove any measurable material, but to simply smooth off the phosphate, which does not actually penetrate the metal. You want to get it shiny then stop. To finish, use blue (all-purpose) rouge, or similar, on a dremel tool with buffing wheel, then wipe it down. You will get a mirror finish, lubricate the two contact surfaces and reassemble. It doesn't take long since you only have to do this to the two engagement surfaces only. I polish all of mine to achieve super smooth action, unless I use Core 15 fire control components which are already smooth enough for my liking. |
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The reason that the pull feels so gritty and binding is due to friction between the engagement surfaces, being entirely phosphated at those areas. Normally, the components are phosphated, then dressed on the ends and polished to a mirror-like finish, but this is not the case on those Norinco parts. Personally, I would use 3000 grit wet/dry sandpaper, attached with double-sided tape to a flat piece of bar stock, then go over the ends very lightly by applying even pressure and making sure to keep it flush. ,,,,one stroke at-a-time and re check. The object here is to not remove any measurable material, but to simply smooth off the phosphate, which does not actually penetrate the metal. You want to get it shiny then stop. To finish, use blue (all-purpose) rouge, or similar, on a dremel tool with buffing wheel, then wipe it down. You will get a mirror finish, lubricate the two contact surfaces and reassemble. It doesn't take long since you only have to do this to the two engagement surfaces only. I polish all of mine to achieve super smooth action, unless I use Core 15 fire control components which are already smooth enough for my liking. Quoted:
The reason that the pull feels so gritty and binding is due to friction between the engagement surfaces, being entirely phosphated at those areas. Normally, the components are phosphated, then dressed on the ends and polished to a mirror-like finish, but this is not the case on those Norinco parts. Personally, I would use 3000 grit wet/dry sandpaper, attached with double-sided tape to a flat piece of bar stock, then go over the ends very lightly by applying even pressure and making sure to keep it flush. ,,,,one stroke at-a-time and re check. The object here is to not remove any measurable material, but to simply smooth off the phosphate, which does not actually penetrate the metal. You want to get it shiny then stop. To finish, use blue (all-purpose) rouge, or similar, on a dremel tool with buffing wheel, then wipe it down. You will get a mirror finish, lubricate the two contact surfaces and reassemble. It doesn't take long since you only have to do this to the two engagement surfaces only. I polish all of mine to achieve super smooth action, unless I use Core 15 fire control components which are already smooth enough for my liking. Thank you, will do and report. For sure things will get better. |
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if yours is marked IT 2012 then youre out of luck. i have personally fired 2 from 2012 and they have aweful triggers, and i have also fired a more recent norionco that belongs to a friend of mine and the trigger was good. since yours is also bad and from 2012 then i assume they have since improved their triggers....? I wasn't unlucky, I've found a good rifle for a great price. Seller was asking 550, was able to pay 500€ complaining about the trigger. The rifle is in good condition, I don't think he has used it a lot. He said just 200 rounds, but half the sellers says the same, these days. Also I don't mind polishing the trigger components a little if this is all that's needed to make it work. |
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I wasn't unlucky, I've found a good rifle for a great price. Seller was asking 550, was able to pay 500€ complaining about the trigger. The rifle is in good condition, I don't think he has used it a lot. He said just 200 rounds, but half the sellers says the same, these days. Also I don't mind polishing the trigger components a little if this is all that's needed to make it work. Quoted:
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if yours is marked IT 2012 then youre out of luck. i have personally fired 2 from 2012 and they have aweful triggers, and i have also fired a more recent norionco that belongs to a friend of mine and the trigger was good. since yours is also bad and from 2012 then i assume they have since improved their triggers....? I wasn't unlucky, I've found a good rifle for a great price. Seller was asking 550, was able to pay 500€ complaining about the trigger. The rifle is in good condition, I don't think he has used it a lot. He said just 200 rounds, but half the sellers says the same, these days. Also I don't mind polishing the trigger components a little if this is all that's needed to make it work. I read through the post rather quickly so I may have missed this ..... have you thought about buying another fire control group not made by Norinco? Would that be difficult? I know nothing about how Italy is with its firearm laws |
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I read through the post rather quickly so I may have missed this ..... have you thought about buying another fire control group not made by Norinco? Would that be difficult? I know nothing about how Italy is with its firearm laws Quoted:
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if yours is marked IT 2012 then youre out of luck. i have personally fired 2 from 2012 and they have aweful triggers, and i have also fired a more recent norionco that belongs to a friend of mine and the trigger was good. since yours is also bad and from 2012 then i assume they have since improved their triggers....? I wasn't unlucky, I've found a good rifle for a great price. Seller was asking 550, was able to pay 500€ complaining about the trigger. The rifle is in good condition, I don't think he has used it a lot. He said just 200 rounds, but half the sellers says the same, these days. Also I don't mind polishing the trigger components a little if this is all that's needed to make it work. I read through the post rather quickly so I may have missed this ..... have you thought about buying another fire control group not made by Norinco? Would that be difficult? I know nothing about how Italy is with its firearm laws OP, if the polish job doesnt work out, I would do this if you can. I'm not sure if you guys can modify rifles in Italy though. |
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OP, if the polish job doesnt work out, I would do this if you can. I'm not sure if you guys can modify rifles in Italy though. Quoted:
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if yours is marked IT 2012 then youre out of luck. i have personally fired 2 from 2012 and they have aweful triggers, and i have also fired a more recent norionco that belongs to a friend of mine and the trigger was good. since yours is also bad and from 2012 then i assume they have since improved their triggers....? I wasn't unlucky, I've found a good rifle for a great price. Seller was asking 550, was able to pay 500€ complaining about the trigger. The rifle is in good condition, I don't think he has used it a lot. He said just 200 rounds, but half the sellers says the same, these days. Also I don't mind polishing the trigger components a little if this is all that's needed to make it work. I read through the post rather quickly so I may have missed this ..... have you thought about buying another fire control group not made by Norinco? Would that be difficult? I know nothing about how Italy is with its firearm laws OP, if the polish job doesnt work out, I would do this if you can. I'm not sure if you guys can modify rifles in Italy though. we can, at least to a certain degree; provided we don't change basic characteristics.. i.e shorten the barrel or add silencers. changing triggers is okay. i've tricked out mine quite a bit in fact :) to OP: you got an ar 15 for the price of an AK.. not bad at all ! |
| Simply being dry can make a trigger behave like that. Make sure it is lubed and shoot it. When you pull the trigger, don't attempt to stage it like that, just give it a good steady pull. It should smooth out as the parts wear to each other and you will be able to stage it more easily. You can dry fire it a lot to help it smooth out. |
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I read through the post rather quickly so I may have missed this ..... have you thought about buying another fire control group not made by Norinco? Would that be difficult? I know nothing about how Italy is with its firearm laws Quoted:
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if yours is marked IT 2012 then youre out of luck. i have personally fired 2 from 2012 and they have aweful triggers, and i have also fired a more recent norionco that belongs to a friend of mine and the trigger was good. since yours is also bad and from 2012 then i assume they have since improved their triggers....? I wasn't unlucky, I've found a good rifle for a great price. Seller was asking 550, was able to pay 500€ complaining about the trigger. The rifle is in good condition, I don't think he has used it a lot. He said just 200 rounds, but half the sellers says the same, these days. Also I don't mind polishing the trigger components a little if this is all that's needed to make it work. I read through the post rather quickly so I may have missed this ..... have you thought about buying another fire control group not made by Norinco? Would that be difficult? I know nothing about how Italy is with its firearm laws Sure, that's plan b. I would love being able to make the trigger work like it should. If that's not the case, there's no problem buying a trigger assembly here in Italy. Also I think I already want to change the springs to make the pull lighter. |
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Simply being dry can make a trigger behave like that. Make sure it is lubed and shoot it. When you pull the trigger, don't attempt to stage it like that, just give it a good steady pull. It should smooth out as the parts wear to each other and you will be able to stage it more easily. You can dry fire it a lot to help it smooth out. Unfortunately I don't think this is the case. I've posted some pics of the fire control group (visible here http://imgur.com/a/zEyVK) and like Mike_Anthony pointed out there are phosphated areas on the engagement surfaces. Also, I've tried dry firing with a snap cap. Is a time consuming activity. Would you recommend dry firing without one? |
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Unfortunately I don't think this is the case. I've posted some pics of the fire control group (visible here http://imgur.com/a/zEyVK) and like Mike_Anthony pointed out there are phosphated areas on the engagement surfaces. Also, I've tried dry firing with a snap cap. Is a time consuming activity. Would you recommend dry firing without one? Quoted:
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Simply being dry can make a trigger behave like that. Make sure it is lubed and shoot it. When you pull the trigger, don't attempt to stage it like that, just give it a good steady pull. It should smooth out as the parts wear to each other and you will be able to stage it more easily. You can dry fire it a lot to help it smooth out. Unfortunately I don't think this is the case. I've posted some pics of the fire control group (visible here http://imgur.com/a/zEyVK) and like Mike_Anthony pointed out there are phosphated areas on the engagement surfaces. Also, I've tried dry firing with a snap cap. Is a time consuming activity. Would you recommend dry firing without one? You don't need snap caps in AR. In the Marine Corps, we dry fired hundreds and hundreds of times without snap caps for days, in preparation for learning to shoot. You will knock the phosphating off by dry firing. Don't waste your time loading and ejecting a dummy round or snap cap. Even if you want to use it, just pull the charging handle back far enough to reset the hammer. You don't have pull it all the way back to the point the snap cap is ejected. To be honest with you, I don't think the phosphating means anything away. I bought a two stage aftermarket trigger that is also phosphated over the engagement surfaces and it is the smoothest trigger I own. Your parts look completely dry. If you want to polish the phosphate off, put some polishing compound on the engagement surfaces and dry fire the shit of the thing. Even toothpaste will work. Not gel toothpaste, actual old fashioned regular white toothpaste. Put it on the surfaces and dry fire it a few dozen times. Clean it off and lube it. |
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You don't need snap caps in AR. In the Marine Corps, we dry fired hundreds and hundreds of times without snap caps for days, in preparation for learning to shoot. You will knock the phosphating off by dry firing. Don't waste your time loading and ejecting a dummy round or snap cap. Even if you want to use it, just pull the charging handle back far enough to reset the hammer. You don't have pull it all the way back to the point the snap cap is ejected. To be honest with you, I don't think the phosphating means anything away. I bought a two stage aftermarket trigger that is also phosphated over the engagement surfaces and it is the smoothest trigger I own. Your parts look completely dry. If you want to polish the phosphate off, put some polishing compound on the engagement surfaces and dry fire the shit of the thing. Even toothpaste will work. Not gel toothpaste, actual old fashioned regular white toothpaste. Put it on the surfaces and dry fire it a few dozen times. Clean it off and lube it. Well, the parts were actually completely dry. I cleaned them for the photos. But they were lubed before that. However, this toothpaste method seems really smart. Will try it and see if it works. Thanks. |
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You don't need snap caps in AR. In the Marine Corps, we dry fired hundreds and hundreds of times without snap caps for days, in preparation for learning to shoot. You will knock the phosphating off by dry firing. Don't waste your time loading and ejecting a dummy round or snap cap. Even if you want to use it, just pull the charging handle back far enough to reset the hammer. You don't have pull it all the way back to the point the snap cap is ejected. To be honest with you, I don't think the phosphating means anything away. I bought a two stage aftermarket trigger that is also phosphated over the engagement surfaces and it is the smoothest trigger I own. Your parts look completely dry. If you want to polish the phosphate off, put some polishing compound on the engagement surfaces and dry fire the shit of the thing. Even toothpaste will work. Not gel toothpaste, actual old fashioned regular white toothpaste. Put it on the surfaces and dry fire it a few dozen times. Clean it off and lube it. Quoted:
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Simply being dry can make a trigger behave like that. Make sure it is lubed and shoot it. When you pull the trigger, don't attempt to stage it like that, just give it a good steady pull. It should smooth out as the parts wear to each other and you will be able to stage it more easily. You can dry fire it a lot to help it smooth out. Unfortunately I don't think this is the case. I've posted some pics of the fire control group (visible here http://imgur.com/a/zEyVK) and like Mike_Anthony pointed out there are phosphated areas on the engagement surfaces. Also, I've tried dry firing with a snap cap. Is a time consuming activity. Would you recommend dry firing without one? You don't need snap caps in AR. In the Marine Corps, we dry fired hundreds and hundreds of times without snap caps for days, in preparation for learning to shoot. You will knock the phosphating off by dry firing. Don't waste your time loading and ejecting a dummy round or snap cap. Even if you want to use it, just pull the charging handle back far enough to reset the hammer. You don't have pull it all the way back to the point the snap cap is ejected. To be honest with you, I don't think the phosphating means anything away. I bought a two stage aftermarket trigger that is also phosphated over the engagement surfaces and it is the smoothest trigger I own. Your parts look completely dry. If you want to polish the phosphate off, put some polishing compound on the engagement surfaces and dry fire the shit of the thing. Even toothpaste will work. Not gel toothpaste, actual old fashioned regular white toothpaste. Put it on the surfaces and dry fire it a few dozen times. Clean it off and lube it. A two stage trigger has both a takeup and release stage, incorporating a completely different design in contact points. In a single stage trigger, there is no takeup, only trigger creep This is why yours feels smoother even though it is phosphated..These are not my photos, I just grabbed them to illustrate the difference in a two stage as well as how polishing makes a difference in surfaces.. 
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A two stage trigger has both a takeup and release stage, incorporating a completely different design in contact points. In a single stage trigger, there is no takeup, only trigger creep This is why yours feels smoother even though it is phosphated..These are not my photos, I just grabbed them to illustrate the difference in a two stage as well as how polishing makes a difference in surfaces.. http://d3cfki0l5o2ps6.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/547x800/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/g/e/geissele-automatics-2-stage-trigger-pi.jpg http://www.2acheck.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/AR-15-trigger-before-and-after.jpg Quoted:
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Simply being dry can make a trigger behave like that. Make sure it is lubed and shoot it. When you pull the trigger, don't attempt to stage it like that, just give it a good steady pull. It should smooth out as the parts wear to each other and you will be able to stage it more easily. You can dry fire it a lot to help it smooth out. Unfortunately I don't think this is the case. I've posted some pics of the fire control group (visible here http://imgur.com/a/zEyVK) and like Mike_Anthony pointed out there are phosphated areas on the engagement surfaces. Also, I've tried dry firing with a snap cap. Is a time consuming activity. Would you recommend dry firing without one? You don't need snap caps in AR. In the Marine Corps, we dry fired hundreds and hundreds of times without snap caps for days, in preparation for learning to shoot. You will knock the phosphating off by dry firing. Don't waste your time loading and ejecting a dummy round or snap cap. Even if you want to use it, just pull the charging handle back far enough to reset the hammer. You don't have pull it all the way back to the point the snap cap is ejected. To be honest with you, I don't think the phosphating means anything away. I bought a two stage aftermarket trigger that is also phosphated over the engagement surfaces and it is the smoothest trigger I own. Your parts look completely dry. If you want to polish the phosphate off, put some polishing compound on the engagement surfaces and dry fire the shit of the thing. Even toothpaste will work. Not gel toothpaste, actual old fashioned regular white toothpaste. Put it on the surfaces and dry fire it a few dozen times. Clean it off and lube it. A two stage trigger has both a takeup and release stage, incorporating a completely different design in contact points. In a single stage trigger, there is no takeup, only trigger creep This is why yours feels smoother even though it is phosphated..These are not my photos, I just grabbed them to illustrate the difference in a two stage as well as how polishing makes a difference in surfaces.. http://d3cfki0l5o2ps6.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/547x800/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/g/e/geissele-automatics-2-stage-trigger-pi.jpg http://www.2acheck.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/AR-15-trigger-before-and-after.jpg I know what how a two stage trigger works. I am not talking about the take-up. I am talking about the break. That is why I stated the engagement surfaces. They are not clean/polished/metal looking. They are black, just like the rest of the trigger parts. When I first bought it, I thought they screwed up the coating, but the trigger feels just like a Geissele SSA, if not a bit better. |
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I'm still trying to find the 3000 grit sandpaper, nobody seems to know that these things even exist, around here. Found some printing house selling small sheets of 2000 grit sandpaper and I think I will buy some as soon as I am in the area.
In the meanwhile I've took the rifle to the range (before doing anything to the trigger) to test reliability - and for some standard plinking fun. After that I've tried the "toothpaste method" from H53EXPERT. Disassembling the trigger I've noticed a bulge on the disconnector. (it is visible in this pic http://i.imgur.com/qK00xfK.jpg, the bottom part). Sanded it away, I've dry fired the rifle with toothpaste. Then, after thorough cleaning, I've reassembled everything with abundant grease and oil. The trigger already feels a lot better, lighter and smoother. There's still some creep and friction, though, as the engagement surfaces are still not finished. Will be polishing everything as soon as I can put all the tools needed together. |
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Finally I was able to do the whole sand and buff thing. The trigger really feels a lot better now. Only problem is that I wasn't able to reach all the surfaces with the buffing wheel, some small ones got only sanded. So there's still some binding, but a lot less noticeable now.
I was thinking about buying some lighter springs. Would that be safe on a trigger still not perfect? Could lighter springs cause reliability issues? |
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I'm still trying to find the 3000 grit sandpaper, nobody seems to know that these things even exist, around here. Found some printing house selling small sheets of 2000 grit sandpaper and I think I will buy some as soon as I am in the area. In the meanwhile I've took the rifle to the range (before doing anything to the trigger) to test reliability - and for some standard plinking fun. After that I've tried the "toothpaste method" from H53EXPERT. Disassembling the trigger I've noticed a bulge on the disconnector. (it is visible in this pic http://i.imgur.com/qK00xfK.jpg, the bottom part). Sanded it away, I've dry fired the rifle with toothpaste. Then, after thorough cleaning, I've reassembled everything with abundant grease and oil. The trigger already feels a lot better, lighter and smoother. There's still some creep and friction, though, as the engagement surfaces are still not finished. Will be polishing everything as soon as I can put all the tools needed together. Polish only the primary engagements on the trigger and hammer, don't mess with the disconnector action (ask me how I know). I like to take the sandpaper and fold it over a thin knife blade so I can reach inside the surface on the hammer. Like the others said, light polishing, don't remove very much metal, don't round off any edges. Don't try to do this with a buffer wheel, its not precise enough. As for springs, I like to use the JP yellow springs which are lighter than GI strength. With a polished GI trigger and JP yellows, my trigger pull was reduced to 3.75 lbs (1.7 kg) with a very smooth stroke. Not sure if you can get JP parts in Europe, but either way the GI hammer spring is heavier than necessary to pop commercial primers. When finished, apply moly grease to the engagement surfaces, molybdenum is one of most slippery substances known to man. good luck - CW http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.8.3_spring.php |
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Messing with the disconnect can cause issues with the hammer slipping and following the bolt. This can lead to multiple rounds being fired from one trigger pull.
2000 grit is very fine, and should be good enough for a smooth surface. Would take a while to get there if starting that fine. You can use a more coarse sand paper and work up to the finer stuff. Only the front nose of the trigger and the notch in the hammer that touches the trigger, need to be smoothed out. I also suggest a light grease for the sear surfaces, as that will make the trigger feel smoother than oil would. If the trigger is acceptable for you now, then no need to disassemble again, as some dry fire can help achieve the last little amount of smoothness. You can dry fire with the upper receiver removed, it's much faster. Just don't let the hammer swing freely and hit the receiver with full force, as that can cause damage. Cushion the hammer to prevent it from swinging the full amount. I use a cleaning rag, but a cotton swab or other object that can soften the blow would work too. |
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Sure, that's plan b. I would love being able to make the trigger work like it should. If that's not the case, there's no problem buying a trigger assembly here in Italy. Also I think I already want to change the springs to make the pull lighter. Quoted:
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if yours is marked IT 2012 then youre out of luck. i have personally fired 2 from 2012 and they have aweful triggers, and i have also fired a more recent norionco that belongs to a friend of mine and the trigger was good. since yours is also bad and from 2012 then i assume they have since improved their triggers....? I wasn't unlucky, I've found a good rifle for a great price. Seller was asking 550, was able to pay 500€ complaining about the trigger. The rifle is in good condition, I don't think he has used it a lot. He said just 200 rounds, but half the sellers says the same, these days. Also I don't mind polishing the trigger components a little if this is all that's needed to make it work. I read through the post rather quickly so I may have missed this ..... have you thought about buying another fire control group not made by Norinco? Would that be difficult? I know nothing about how Italy is with its firearm laws Sure, that's plan b. I would love being able to make the trigger work like it should. If that's not the case, there's no problem buying a trigger assembly here in Italy. Also I think I already want to change the springs to make the pull lighter. They buy and ALG branded Nickel Boron trigger group, enjoy, and be done with it. The only time I've ever had an AR-15 related problem after thousands and thousands of trigger pulls/rounds down the pipe is when fucking around with lighter trigger springs... A quality trigger doesn't need lighter trigger springs to be crisp and smooth. Hopefully you can source the aforementioned trigger to Italy. Here they go from $55-65 US dollars... LINK |
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