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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Trijicon vs Vortex (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 5/13/2017 12:57:22 AM EDT
| on my 16" Larue stealth build i've narrowed down my optics to several choices. I've been a fan trijicon and owned several of their optics, (accupoint 3x9, MRO, ACOG). I'm looking at extending to the 300-600 range. Looking at the trijicon accupower 1-8, and the Vortex PST gen 2 2.5-10, pst gen 2 1-6, and if i can find a decent deal, a Trijicon VCOG (long shot). I can use military discount on Vortex, which would drop the cost substantially lower on the 2.5-10, and 1-6 PST. I've never owned a vortex. I'm looking at a significant savings going vortex. I will not displace prices but somewhere in the 400-600 dollar range. Is the glass on the vortex up to par with the accupower glass? This is also not just bench rest shooting and would need to be able to be used in a moderate CQB manner, as well as going the distance. I'm open to other suggestions as well. Budget is 1,000 maybe 1,300. |
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Not personally familiar with any of those except the VCOG (just don't), but you can find the Razor HD II 1-6x for sub $1300 (with a .mil discount at a few places).
It is a phenomenal LPV, if that's what you're looking for, and it really excels at close range stuff. I have heard great things about the Accupower 1-8x, and based upon the reticle and turret options, it would seem to be better suited for more precise longer range stuff. Obviously your 2.5-10x options will be better at longer range as well, so you really have to answer for yourself what tradeoffs are you willing to accept? A lot of your listed choices excel at different things. |
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You like that VCOG? I have not had the chance to play with one. Glass quality was nowhere near the Elcan that it replaced. VCOGs suffer from diopter shift, so if you set the diopter at 1x, when you flip up to 6x the reticle would be fuzzy. Same for the opposite. My compromise was setting it at 3x and just dealing with the slight fuzziness. Illumination is nowhere near daytime bright, although I guess it isn't really that big of a deal, since the reticle is so large/bold. Should be daytime bright for what Trijicon is charging, though. I'd personally take the Razor 1-6x any day of the week over the VCOG. Similar weights (only downside to the Razor) and the Razor beats or ties the VCOG in pretty much every other category, all at about $1k less street price. |
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I owned one and it had quite a few issues that I wasn't really happy with, especially at that price point. Glass quality was nowhere near the Elcan that it replaced. VCOGs suffer from diopter shift, so if you set the diopter at 1x, when you flip up to 6x the reticle would be fuzzy. Same for the opposite. My compromise was setting it at 3x and just dealing with the slight fuzziness. Illumination is nowhere near daytime bright, although I guess it isn't really that big of a deal, since the reticle is so large/bold. Should be daytime bright for what Trijicon is charging, though. I'd personally take the Razor 1-6x any day of the week over the VCOG. Similar weights (only downside to the Razor) and the Razor beats or ties the VCOG in pretty much every other category, all at about $1k less street price. |
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Unreal topic, really. Trijicon is one of the best optic manufacturers in the world. Vortex is third rate. Accupoints are some of my favorite scopes.  .... You just cant help yourself just like the other thread that got locked
You are stuck years in the past .... That mentality will never allow you to move forward The razors really are top tier optics But you also may be a troll 
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Unreal topic, really. Trijicon is one of the best optic manufacturers in the world. Vortex is third rate. Accupoints are some of my favorite scopes. 
Care to refute any of my observations about the VCOG vs Razor with actual facts? |
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Unreal topic, really. Trijicon is one of the best optic manufacturers in the world. Vortex is third rate. Accupoints are some of my favorite scopes. I've seen the Razors pop up on the EE for 1100-1200 For just the optic and sometimes with a mount. Might be selling mine off as well, as it slows me down on a carbine(it has a T1 now), and it's currently on the SPR which I think I'm going to top with a 2-10 instead. If I had a Scar 17 it'd go on that though, it's that tough of a scope. |
| Trijicon all day man. The 1-8 is daylight bright in red I can't vouch for the green. I love my vcog and honestly it is not daylight bright mine shows as a dark green on a cloudless day at noon but I still like it. I had no diopter shift with mine. Razor is good value for the dollar but only the razors are worth anything but that being said I would roll with 1-8 I got mine for 1285 with shipping. I would look at the TR26 2.5-12.5 if you're wanting an SPR scope. The TR25 1-6 can be had for under a grand and is light and has great glass |
| Just got a red MOA Trijicon 1-8. Don't have it mounted yet due to still waiting for my Geissele mount but it is definitely daylight bright and the glass is great. Not sure how close you are to dropping the hammer but Optics Planet has a 15% off riflescope sale ( code 15VPRS ) going on right now. That puts the trijicon at $1179. That's the best price I've seen on one. |
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Thanks for all the input fellas. I love the accupoint 3x9 I have and you can really use the bindon method with it and dot. I just suck at math and the mil reticle with moa adjustments really throws me off. I think I've narrowed it down to the trijicon 1-8, and the vortex 2.5-10 pst . I like the idea of the zero stop on both. I've been researching for a while and just couldn't seem to settle on anything for a 16" with a fixed stock that could fill the roll of minute cqb, with primarily 100 and out.
Need to find somewhere that stocks both of these and compare. |
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Just got a red MOA Trijicon 1-8. Don't have it mounted yet due to still waiting for my Geissele mount but it is definitely daylight bright and the glass is great. Not sure how close you are to dropping the hammer but Optics Planet has a 15% off riflescope sale ( code 15VPRS ) going on right now. That puts the trijicon at $1179. That's the best price I've seen on one. OP might might to consider the Bushnell 1-8. With that 15% off code and the 25% off rebate Bushnell is offering its right at $1000. Great optic, imho. |
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Vortex. So third rate, even SMUs use them! http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e5/tigerstr/various/scope/cag-use_zpsrzr54rpb.jpg http://i.imgur.com/4taGzt5.jpg Care to refute any of my observations about the VCOG vs Razor with actual facts? |
| For what you're looking for the PST or Razor Vortex lines are awesome. The Accupowers are nice too, but I prefer my Trijicon optics more for closer range or combat-level accuracy. I usually look at Trijicon for my ACOGs and them/Aimpoint for red dots, and Vortex for more precision oriented shooting. Though each have lines that do the other niches well, I find that's where they're best suited. |
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Most of the Vortex products are Asian junk. I get it, the Razor is built in Japan, using Japanese glass. But it's only similar to any old Nikon scope, nothing more. It's decent. And because it's decent and priced low enough, it clouds many judgements. Like comparing a Japanese scope to state of the art American scopes such as Leupold and Trijicon. Or European scopes, such as Hensoldt, Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, etc. It becomes ludicrous.
Razor is middle of the road. The company is still young. Their engineering is not up to par yet. Scopes are heavy. Lots of optical problems like double image. Reticles made by marketing department. There's nothing wrong with Eotech, if one likes crappy red dots. They make more interesting optics than Aimpoint. All this talk of POI shift while in the oven is again ludicrous. |
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Most of the Vortex products are Asian junk. I get it, the Razor is built in Japan, using Japanese glass. But it's only similar to any old Nikon scope, nothing more. It's decent. And because it's decent and priced low enough, it clouds many judgements. Like comparing a Japanese scope to state of the art American scopes such as Leupold and Trijicon. Or European scopes, such as Hensoldt, Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, etc. It becomes ludicrous. Razor is middle of the road. The company is still young. Their engineering is not up to par yet. Scopes are heavy. Lots of optical problems like double image. Reticles made by marketing department. There's nothing wrong with Eotech, if one likes crappy red dots. They make more interesting optics than Aimpoint. All this talk of POI shift while in the oven is again ludicrous. |
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion. That being said the complaints are mounting up and this has been sent up to the staff level. If this one cannot contribute anything of value to a tech discussion then he outta shut his hole. My opinion, but it is shared. |
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Opinions are valid. This posting of shit with the intent of derailing the thread or inflaming the discussion is bullshit and getting real old. If this one cannot contribute anything of value to a tech discussion then he outta shut his hole. My opinion, but it is shared. |
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Most of the Vortex products are Asian junk. I get it, the Razor is built in Japan, using Japanese glass. But it's only similar to any old Nikon scope, nothing more. It's decent. And because it's decent and priced low enough, it clouds many judgements. Like comparing a Japanese scope to state of the art American scopes such as Leupold and Trijicon. Or European scopes, such as Hensoldt, Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, etc. It becomes ludicrous. Razor is middle of the road. The company is still young. Their engineering is not up to par yet. Scopes are heavy. Lots of optical problems like double image. Reticles made by marketing department. There's nothing wrong with Eotech, if one likes crappy red dots. They make more interesting optics than Aimpoint. All this talk of POI shift while in the oven is again ludicrous. BTW I own/previously have owned tons of high end glass (Swaro, Khales, S&B, Steiner Military, NF ATACR/Beast) The Vortex gives nothing up and I prefer my Razor Gen II 4.5-27 over my ATACR but it's really splitting hairs IMO Check out this NF and Trijicon .... Both made in Japan 
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Wow, Vortex Razor, Trijicon, Nightforce, Leupold (MK4), Aimpoint, we are really bitching about some mighty good stuff here!
A guy offered me a grand from my old Nightforce NSX 3.5-15X50, I laughed and said I don't know if I can get anything better for twice that, so you keep your money. It's a perfect scope, period. I think I bought it off WES (MSTN) for less than that nearly 20 years ago. To me, it beats anything I've compared it to, even the USO costing nearly 3 times as much. Really, it's noticeably sharper. Kills the MK4 Loopy! Only my TA55 ACOG is sharper and brighter, it's only 5.5X but it's more like 8 or 9 power in use because it's definition is fantastic. |
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Yup, several Trijicons and NFs are made in Japan. But I'm guessing these are the inexpensive Accupowers? They're similar in build quality to Vortex Razors, but with better engineering. But Vortex is not even in the same universe as VCOG. Once again, can you provide any actual evidence to back up any of your claims? |
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Seems to be a whole lot of "guessing" in everything you post. Once again, can you provide any actual evidence to back up any of your claims? |
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Seems to be a whole lot of "guessing" in everything you post. Once again, can you provide any actual evidence to back up any of your claims? |
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I get stuff. Fondle it. Play with it. Examine it. Compare to others. Shoot with it. Then voice my opinion. That's all I can offer. I have an engineering background, so some of this stuff fascinates me. |
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I get stuff. Fondle it. Play with it. Examine it. Compare to others. Shoot with it. Then voice my opinion. That's all I can offer. I have an engineering background, so some of this stuff fascinates me. ETA: I also asked if you had any facts/evidence. If they're so poorly engineered and you have an engineering background, you can surely describe exactly how and where they're lacking, right? |
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His arguments and claims have no merit due to him not owning or using the Vortex ..... Most of us in here have used everything being mentioned so our opinions hold true more so than someone who is just guessing and assuming ..... Don't knock it until you try it |
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So you've owned Vortex Razors and have disassembled them to the point where you can offer a professional opinion as to how they were engineered? ETA: I also asked if you had any facts/evidence. If they're so poorly engineered and you have an engineering background, you can surely describe exactly where they're lacking, right? |
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You're the one doing the assumption. Vortex has a fair share of my money. As recent as 3 days ago I bought some Vortex rings. And didn't like them, go figure. I've owned many of their products and have access to just about any of their scopes, including Razors. I'm also not a fan of red dot and especially Aimpoint. But I still have some of them. So I guess I'm guilty. But I will always voice my opinion fairly. |
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Have you? Quoted:
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So you've owned Vortex Razors and have disassembled them to the point where you can offer a professional opinion as to how they were engineered? ETA: I also asked if you had any facts/evidence. If they're so poorly engineered and you have an engineering background, you can surely describe exactly where they're lacking, right? |
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Have I what? You're the one making the claims about lackluster engineering, not me. It's up to you to provide the evidence to back your claim. Should be relatively easy for someone so convinced in their opinion. Especially for a guy with a "background in engineering." |
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You're the one doing the assumption. Vortex has a fair share of my money. As recent as 3 days ago I bought some Vortex rings. And didn't like them, go figure. I've owned many of their products and have access to just about any of their scopes, including Razors. I'm also not a fan of red dot and especially Aimpoint. But I still have some of them. So I guess I'm guilty. But I will always voice my opinion fairly. Quoted:
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His arguments and claims have no merit due to him not owning or using the Vortex ..... Most of us in here have used everything being mentioned so our opinions hold true more so than someone who is just guessing and assuming ..... Don't knock it until you try it
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. |
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Well at least you are starting to move in the right direction.... What models of the Razor did you own/use? I ask because the Gen II we are discussing here is much better on ever level over the Gen 1 .... So it would be like using a NXS NF vs the ATACR I've handled Gen II many times. For example, I find the AccuPoint a better scope. To me it has cleaner glass and is significantly lighter. Lighter scope shows better engineering. |
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And you're claiming Vortex is top notch stuff. You must be a paid professional engineer, who has taken them apart and must have a mountain of evidence to share with the rest of us. Right? Wouldn't it be easier to put me on ignore? Quoted:
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Have I what? You're the one making the claims about lackluster engineering, not me. It's up to you to provide the evidence to back your claim. Should be relatively easy for someone so convinced in their opinion. Especially for a guy with a "background in engineering." YOU are the one claiming them to be poorly engineered and "middle of the road Japanese scopes no different than Nikon." Either provide some evidence to support that claim or admit you're talking out of your ass. |
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Most of the Vortex products are Asian junk. I get it, the Razor is built in Japan, using Japanese glass. But it's only similar to any old Nikon scope, nothing more. It's decent. And because it's decent and priced low enough, it clouds many judgements. Like comparing a Japanese scope to state of the art American scopes such as Leupold and Trijicon. Or European scopes, such as Hensoldt, Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, etc. It becomes ludicrous. Razor is middle of the road. The company is still young. Their engineering is not up to par yet. Scopes are heavy. Lots of optical problems like double image. Reticles made by marketing department. There's nothing wrong with Eotech, if one likes crappy red dots. They make more interesting optics than Aimpoint. All this talk of POI shift while in the oven is again ludicrous.
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It is what it is. I find it funny how all of a sudden you're finally starting to elaborate on your past trollish responses in the very thread where a mod says your "case" has been forwarded up to site staff. |
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So, no evidence to back up your engineering claims? I find it funny how all of a sudden you're starting to elaborate on your past trollish responses in the very thread where a mod says your "case" has been forwarded up to site staff. |
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So, no evidence to back up your engineering claims? I find it funny how all of a sudden you're finally starting to elaborate on your past trollish responses in the very thread where a mod says your "case" has been forwarded up to site staff. attackers, maybe the mods will give you a time out? I only speak about products. You take it personal and attack other members. This will be my last reply to you. |
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So it would be like using a NXS NF vs the ATACR I've used S&B and didn't like it enough better than the NSX to justify the big $ difference. I was't satisfied with the USO till I used it, then bought another. You can't really tell till after you've shot it. |
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As one of the biggest confrontationists and personal attackers, maybe the mods will give you a time out? Quoted:
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So, no evidence to back up your engineering claims? I find it funny how all of a sudden you're finally starting to elaborate on your past trollish responses in the very thread where a mod says your "case" has been forwarded up to site staff. attackers, maybe the mods will give you a time out? With that said, still waiting on your evidence of poor engineering. At the very least, fill me in on some of the issues you've experienced with the Razor line of scopes. |
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Is the ATACR that much better than the NSX, I've never seen one. I've used S&B and didn't like it enough better than the NSX to justify the big $ difference. I was't satisfied with the USO till I used it, then bought another. You can't really tell till after you've shot it. |
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Yup, several Trijicons and NFs are made in Japan. But I'm guessing these are the inexpensive Accupowers? They're similar in build quality to Vortex Razors, but with better engineering. But Vortex is not even in the same universe as VCOG. |
| So I got to run my 1-8 in a 3 gun match today. The day started off cloudy and then became super bright out and the 1-8 RED MOA WAS IN FACT DAYLIGHT BRIGHT and that's with a battery I accidentally left on overnight after I zeroed it. Glass quality was superb no flicker while moving like a leupold mk6, forgiving eye box. On 1x it's fast it's like an Eotech. When he had our distance stage that pushed out to 400 the Moa marks were useful and made things easier than my 1-4 TR green triangle. For a 3gun scope it's baller, for a cqb and reasonable distance for an AR it's great. |
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So I got to run my 1-8 in a 3 gun match today. The day started off cloudy and then became super bright out and the 1-8 RED MOA WAS IN FACT DAYLIGHT BRIGHT and that's with a battery I accidentally left on overnight after I zeroed it. Glass quality was superb no flicker while moving like a leupold mk6, forgiving eye box. On 1x it's fast it's like an Eotech. When he had our distance stage that pushed out to 400 the Moa marks were useful and made things easier than my 1-4 TR green triangle. For a 3gun scope it's baller, for a cqb and reasonable distance for an AR it's great. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Trijicon vs Vortex (Page 1 of 3)
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