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Posted: 9/5/2011 2:17:03 PM EDT
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Picked up a couple hundred rounds of Tula 55 grain FMJ .223 at a gunshow a while back as it was very cheap. I have fired the usual assortment of combloc .223 with no real previous issues (Wolf black box, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, and LOTS of Monarch). Only previous issues with any of these was dirt....
Anyway, today went to check a new rear sight for zero and and fired first round, but jam and NO extraction. Performed usual drill and case was stuck in chamber. That will teach me to forget about bringing a full size cleaning rod! Got home and the round tapped right out, but it looks like the extractor pulled part of the rim off. Will continue to try the rest of this stuff (but will make sure to have a rod), but has anyone else had issues with Tula rims getting pulled off by the extractor? Oh, the ONE sighter was perfect elevation and about 1" left. |
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I have fired a whole case through my Colt 6920, and this happened on the very last range trip to finish off that case. I was alternating between brass and steel cased ammo,
and finally I got a Tula empty stuck in the chamber. I hadn't cleaned the rifle in several hundred rounds, so the chamber was quite dirty. |
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Happened to me as well, Odin. That was the last time I ever put that crap in my rifle. Luckily the RO was kind enough (after a well deserved lecture on using cheap crap in a high dollar firearm) to lend me a rod to pound that stuck casing out.
Garbage. May I repeat myself? Tula is garbage. |
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I just bought some Cabelas Herters brand which is marked Tulammo .223 on the casings.. going to try for the 1st time in my PSA and BCM uppers next weekend hopefully and see what happens... Went yesterday.. shot 60 rounds of the Herters (Tulammo) with 0 issues.. I did 20 Tula 30 XTAC Brass then some more Tula.. then some more XTAC.. etc.. ZERO issue in my PSA upper.. BCM upper is waiting on parts.. going to try the Herters in that the next outing.. Tula is pretty cruddy but think the 300 round mark would be IT for me in 1 session like another poster said. going to order 500 or 1K shortly as the brass (even the cheap XTAC) this summer has killed my wallet... |
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You said 1st round went bang and no extraction. That says dirty chamber or small piece of debris in chamber.
You then say it ripped rim off. No extractor issue there if it did that. sounds to me like and isolated issue. i had this happen once with PMC and have yet to have an issue since with there ammo. |
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Had it happen once. I cleaned the chamber out and bought a BCM Extractor Upgrade Kit and haven't had any issues since. This, I had this happen twice with Tula but each time was after firingo 400+ rounds without cleaning the chamber. Any polymer coated steel case will likely gum up the chamber of an AR when it gets hot. Keep it clean and wet when using Tula and it shouldn't be a problem. |
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BTT... and some interesting things..
My PSA 16" Carbine upper had 0 issues with the Tula/Herters 55gr FMJ ammo.. My BCM 14 1/2" Midlength had some issues with the 1st round on a 'fresh' mag not catching the top round.. I followed up this weekend with 2 brand new PMag 20's.. and low and behold.. 4 out of 6 mag 'changes' when going from a Tula loaded mag to another loaded mag had the same results.. It seems as inconsistant loads with the Tula probably is not 'kicking' enough to push the BCG back all the way to strip the fresh round when I hit the bolt-catch.. again this was 4 out of 6 mag changes.. now the rifle cycles fine with the TulAmmo... just doesn't ALWAYS like the mag change idea.. 
but, for <$4 / box for Tula vs. $5.69 > for other brass cased ammo.. I think keeping SOME TulAmmo in stock isn't a BAD idea totally.. the rifle ran fine with 140 rounds of Federal AE Tactical 223 55FMJ that I also got from the Cabela's sale last week.. and obviously the Federal AE 223 had more KICK when shooting that.. FWIW.. I run the standard Carbine buffer (which is the lightest) so an H1 or H2 isn't going to help with the TulAmmo.. (I also run the same Carbine Buffer with the PSA 16" Carbine upper).. I may have to scrounge up some WPA ammo as it supposed to be better.. keep you all posted.. I just grabbed 2 more boxes today from local WM of the Tula for $4.97 each.. |
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I have not shot Tula and will not, at least not the lacquer 223
I was talking to a tech at Keltech about my SU16CA (My first complete strip and clean after one year and wanted lube point recommendations) and mentioned it light strikes Wolf WPA (but it is better than the previous ULY made Wolf). He mentioned a SU16 owner that did a torture test with Tula lacquer cased 223. As most know 223 in higher pressure and higher temperature than 7.62X39 which seems to be fine with lacquer. Anyway, the lacquer seems to have gotten too hot and fused to the inside of the chamber. They have tried everything at Keltech to get this case out including heating the action hammer cleaning rods and every combination. It is still in the gun and they are still scratching their heads. You can call Keltech and ask them how that is going. I am not a Russian steel case ammo hater. I load my own and make far cleaner more accurate ammo for less than steel but I keep steel around and test my guns to know what ammo works just in case I need to use it. I have bought many cases of Barnaul, Silver Bear, Wolf etc but I will never stick lacquer in any 223/5.56 gun of mine. If you want to use steel fine, just use Poly coated. They have switched to Poly for a reason in 223 but it is your gun, do what you want Wulfmann |
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Only problem I have had with tula has been one dud primer and one primer seated in the flashole sideways. It plinking ammo only. ^^ this exactly for me. In my 223 its been more or less fine, only a couple issues and no stuck cases. In my AK, I have had lots and lots of bad primers, though it is isolated to one particular batch of ammo I purchased so I believe that ammo just came from a bad lot. I hope because I still have a bunch of it. |
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The Lacquer coated Barnaul ammo (Brown Bear) is far more reliabile than the poly coated tula/uly/old wolf garbage. My DI M&P 15 would get stuck cases every range trip. My new FN 20" DI build also has some problems with steel ammo an stuck cases, but less than the M&P15. For the really stuck cases, I would pour some Kroil down the muzzle and let sit over night. The Kroil would break apart the carbon locking the casing in, and then I would either mortar the shell out or whack it out with a cleaning rod. I haven't had a stuck case in my LMT MRP Piston gun yet. |
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Bought a couple boxes of Tula at MaoMart to try out one day.
All fired/extracted fine, but this was only 40 rounds or so. Have fired a few hundred of the Brown Bear, including 250 in a single trip. No extraction issues. No melting lacquer. No cleaning rods. I tried everything. slow fire. Rapid fire. Leaving a round in a hot chamber (FSB was so hot you couldn't touch it, so I'm sure the chamber was plenty hot). Everything. No problems. The BB didn't have the red bullet sealant on some of the old Wolf. I've read where it's believed that this sealant was what was actually causing the problems, and not the lacquer. YMMV, but I have 3K left of the BB and have no problems using it up. Good plinking / training / fun stuff ammo. |
| I bought a bunch of the Herters from Cabelas, picked it up on sale, about half of it would short stroke my rock river, so i now save even more money and hand load with surplus components, not a problem since the switch, wont trash it though several of my friends swear by the stuff just have to see if your gun "likes it" |
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I shoot Wolf Military Classic and Silver Bear almost exclusively in my Spike's 16" middy. The other day I picked up some Herters from Cabellas (which I understand to be Tula) because it was on sale.
Third round in - click. Primer dimpled but would not fire.  14th round in - FTE. The range guys were kind enough to lend me a cleaning rod, and the casing popped out with very little effort - the extractor sheared the case rim off.
I've gone sessions with several hundred rounds of the other Russian steel that I use with no problems at all. I'll be staying away from Herters (Tula) from now on. ––KromeHawk |
| I've personally experienced jammed Russian ammo in my Mini-14 and a Kel-Tec SU-16A, both in .223 caliber. I tried one round in my .308 bolt action FN and that's as far as I got... ONE ROUND... before I experienced an almost identical problem as described by the op: "bang," but case jammed in the chamber. And this is a bolt action, with all of its extra leverage for wrenching out casings! Wrench it did, but that case stuck fast so well that I broke the extractor on that PBR in trying to get the case out! My own fault, I suppose, as I should have learned my lesson with the stuck casings in the Mini-14 and the Kel-Tec. "What about an AR?" you ask? Well, I guess I made a decision earlier on not to run that stuff in my more expensive AR ... that's why they went in the Mini and the Kel-Tec. |
| Was down at the range Sunday, some guy was giving away 2 boxes of the stuff. I passed but there was another guy down there who took them. First shot out of his Bushmaster, failure to extract. No one had a cleaning rod so he had to go home. I guess I should've warned him. |
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I swear... the whole steel case lacquer melting myth needs to DIE.
People, it has nothing to do with the lacquer melting. It has everything to do with the steel case itself. Steel doesn't expand like brass. You don't get as good of a seal in the chamber thus more fouling seeps past the case neck and gums up the chamber. Eventually it builds up enough to stick and jam a case. Normally giving the chamber a good cleaning after a shooting session takes care of this, but Tula is some dirty ammo which is why people have more problems with it than other steel cased ammo. |
| I have a fairly new Del-Ton and I can normally get get between 60-100 rounds of Tula off before I have a problem. I did the BCM extractor upgrade and still have them FTE and stick so much a chunk of rim gets ripped off. Once get through the last of the what I got I probably won't buy much in .223 again. No problems at all out of the ak47 but I did have a FTE with a ripped rim from my AK74 with Tula as well. |
| What type of barrel and chamber are these getting stuck in. I have a theory as I shoot a ton of the steel cased stuff and run it though different weapons. Some of my barrels made during Obama-mania seem to exhibit rougher chambers and exterior finish than older ones. I've also noticed stuck cases exclusively in my non-chrome lined barrels. The chrome lined ones seem to work just fine and I have run over 400 rounds in one sitting out of an older BM with a little CLP between dumps with no FTEs. |
| Happened to me yesterday after 2 boxes of ae tactical and 3 boxes tula. Empty tula case pulled about 5/16" back, stuck and extractor ripped off the rim. Went home and beat out casing, upon inspection i saw that the case was spotted up from parts of th finish missing....low an behold, the missing finish is still in my chamber. And just for the record, accuracy was non existent with tula also.....gun used was a cmmg bull bbl carbine length with wasp coating |
I put 240 rounds through the BM yesterday (with H buffer) and had one FTE. Did a tap-rack and rifle was ready for bang, Not sure what happened, but the one FTE won't deter me from shooting more Tula/Herter's (already put over 2K down the tube). Nor will it stop me from reloading, but picking up a box of steel case ammo delivered outside your door by UPS; sure is easier than all the prepping and load steps of reloading ammo used specifically for mag dumps and informal stage shooting. Shooting steel case is a personal decision, if your willing to put up with a more than average dirty rifle after a day of shooting or see the value of $6 vs. $10 being sprayed out during a mag dump and your rifle seems to feed the stuff like brass, then steel case may be for you... just my .02....
For what it's worth, I do a chamber scrubbing each time after an outing with the steel case... |
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What type of barrel and chamber are these getting stuck in. I have a theory as I shoot a ton of the steel cased stuff and run it though different weapons. Some of my barrels made during Obama-mania seem to exhibit rougher chambers and exterior finish than older ones. I've also noticed stuck cases exclusively in my non-chrome lined barrels. The chrome lined ones seem to work just fine and I have run over 400 rounds in one sitting out of an older BM with a little CLP between dumps with no FTEs. You've got a point. Check for burrs in the chamber. My first M&P 15 had a nasty tool mark in the chamber that would 'grab' steel cases. it was about 1/8 inch long. I shot some brass through it and noticed the gouge would have shiny brass pieces built up around it. My .223 Golani would exhibit stuck cases, despite having an AK-style long stroke action. No chrome lining of barrel. |
I bought some of the Herters that Cabela's had on sale. Rifle had about 70 rounds of AE .223 through it total before shooting the Herters(tula). Rifle is 14.5 PSA 1/7 twist upper, PSA lower build kit. Shot around 170 rounds of the Herters, halfway through, got a stuck case. I atribute this to a very hot gun and prob not as wet as it should have been, I was excited to shoot it and wasnt spraying it down. Couple taps against the but and jab with a rod, popped right out. Didnt look at the case close enough to see if it ripped the casing, I dont believe it did. Did quick clean and lube not one other problem other then being dirty. Im just glad mine eats steel 
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I got 500 rounds of Tula white box about a year ago from Cabela's and it fails to extract about 1/5. Some rims get ripped off, but usually just stuck case.
It does it with equal regularity in the two AR's I've tried, both carbine gas systems, one 16" barrel, the other 14". The DPMS 16" barrel is AP4 chrome lined marked 5.56. The other is a build with a 14.7" chrome lined Wylde chamber. Both are smooth chambers. I'm thinking they may be a little tight. I've fired a couple thousand rounds of Wolf out of the DPMS with 0 failures. I've only fired a few hundred wolf out of the Wylde chamber build with 0 failures. |
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800rds from cabelas earlier this year and had 2 rds that didnt fire.
500rds(2 trips with cleaning in between) through 3 semis. 300rds(cleaned once since my friend was using brass cased ammo) through a RR with a 12" barrel no issues other than the 2 with bad primers. all had colt chrome lined barrels / 5.56 chambers this is dirty ammo and you will get more carbon build up in the chamber due to the steel case not expanding as much as a brass case. the lacquer does not melt,look for videos of AK's/RPK's/RPD's on you tube that were made outside the US and they will be using steel case lacquer coated ammo and they dont GUM  up
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Ford. Chevy. Dodge.
People that understand the issues will shoot steel case ammuntion and be fine with it. I have a 16" CMMG upper that has never been cleaned. That's right. NEVER. I would estimate a total of at least 2500 rounds through it. Brass cased 55gr FMJ? Check. Conversion kit for shooting nasty assed LRN .22lr? Check. A couple of dozen mags of Barnaul from Academy? Check. Run the BCG wet and amazing things will happen when the trigger is pulled. |
| I don't think this is the case...both of my 9mm handguns had a problem feeding the lacquer coated ammo and zero problems feeding the non lacquer coated cases. After a few rounds the lacquer coated cases froze the gun up solid and it was a bear to get the round out. Non coated no problem. This was also the case with my new .40 M&P. Zero problems feeding the steel cased Tula. |
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I swear... the whole steel case lacquer melting myth needs to DIE. People, it has nothing to do with the lacquer melting. It has everything to do with the steel case itself. Steel doesn't expand like brass. You don't get as good of a seal in the chamber thus more fouling seeps past the case neck and gums up the chamber. Eventually it builds up enough to stick and jam a case. Normally giving the chamber a good cleaning after a shooting session takes care of this, but Tula is some dirty ammo which is why people have more problems with it than other steel cased ammo. I don't think this is the case...both of my 9mm handguns had a problem feeding the lacquer coated ammo and zero problems feeding the non lacquer coated cases. After a few rounds the lacquer coated cases froze the gun up solid and it was a bear to get the round out. Non coated no problem. This was also the case with my new .40 M&P. Zero problems feeding the steel cased Tula. |
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