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Posted: 9/23/2013 5:46:25 PM EDT
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I'm putting my lower together. When I put the trigger and hammer in everything works fine. The trigger cocks and holds and releases like it should and will catch it again when the trigger is held and the hammer is pulled back again. Then I install the safety selector it won't fire at all no matter if it's on safe or fire. I've taken it apart and put it back together many times and come to the conclusion that the back of the trigger is angled off to the right side of the gun. I even went and borrowed a trigger/hammer group and different pins from a friend and same result. Putting KNS pins in had no effect. The trigger hits the shoulder of the safety selector and won't allow the trigger to fit into the groove to fire properly. Anyone ever seen this? Is there anything strange I could be doing wrong.
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I'm putting my lower together. When I put the trigger and hammer in everything works fine. The trigger cocks and holds and releases like it should and will catch it again when the trigger is held and the hammer is pulled back again. Then I install the safety selector it won't fire at all no matter if it's on safe or fire. I've taken it apart and put it back together many times and come to the conclusion that the back of the trigger is angled off to the right side of the gun. I even went and borrowed a trigger/hammer group and different pins from a friend and same result. Putting KNS pins in had no effect. The trigger hits the shoulder of the safety selector and won't allow the trigger to fit into the groove to fire properly. Anyone ever seen this? Is there anything strange I could be doing wrong. Picture #1 Picture #2 Picture #3 I suspect that you may have one of the springs incorrectly installed. I had the same thing happen, when I pulled it apart and looked at the orientation of the springs, I had one incorrect. Pull up a diagram of a trigger assy, or a known "good" gun and take a look before you do anything more radical |
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Measure distance between fcg pin holes on both sides of lower. hammer hole looks good but trigger hole looks to be drilled crooked. otherwise maybe try a different safety. The distances between the fcg on both sides appear to be the same as well as I can measure it with a caliper. The measurement from the trigger pin to the safety selector hole seems to be possibly 0.01" off with the left side back but damn that's minimal and It seems I get a different measurement everytime. I measured the width of the relief cut in the safety selector and it's 0.300" between the shoulders. I don't have access to another safety selector. Are you guys seeing your trigger kicked sideways like that? Thanks for the helpful suggestions to all. |
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I suspect that you may have one of the springs incorrectly installed. I had the same thing happen, when I pulled it apart and looked at the orientation of the springs, I had one incorrect. Pull up a diagram of a trigger assy, or a known "good" gun and take a look before you do anything more radical Quoted:
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I'm putting my lower together. When I put the trigger and hammer in everything works fine. The trigger cocks and holds and releases like it should and will catch it again when the trigger is held and the hammer is pulled back again. Then I install the safety selector it won't fire at all no matter if it's on safe or fire. I've taken it apart and put it back together many times and come to the conclusion that the back of the trigger is angled off to the right side of the gun. I even went and borrowed a trigger/hammer group and different pins from a friend and same result. Putting KNS pins in had no effect. The trigger hits the shoulder of the safety selector and won't allow the trigger to fit into the groove to fire properly. Anyone ever seen this? Is there anything strange I could be doing wrong. Picture #1 Picture #2 Picture #3 I suspect that you may have one of the springs incorrectly installed. I had the same thing happen, when I pulled it apart and looked at the orientation of the springs, I had one incorrect. Pull up a diagram of a trigger assy, or a known "good" gun and take a look before you do anything more radical Here's how I have the springs. They are the same as the ones I borrowed from my friend. Spring Pic |
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Gonna go out on a limb here, but in the "spring pic" of the left side of the trigger, it looks like the pin hole is not drilled straight through. looks to me that it angles toward the rear of the trigger. Might also just be a shadow. Gonna go out on a limb here, but in the "spring pic" of the left side of the trigger, it looks like the pin hole is not drilled straight through. looks to me that it angles toward the rear of the trigger. Might also just be a shadow. I think I eliminated the possibility of the hole in the trigger being drilled crooked when I tried a whole new trigger group. Quoted:
Measured a few. Gaps were from .330 to .335" between shoulders. From the detent end the gap started at about .298" That could be it. mine is 0.30" gap for the trigger relief and has a shoulder of 0.321" on the detent end as measured like this --> Detent pic |
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I ran into a similar problem years ago. As I recall I ended up replacing everything; hammer, trigger and safety. I finally decided it was just to many parts at the outside of their allowable variances.
From the pictures it does appear that either your trigger, the pins or the holes are out of alignment. It might be an optical illusion but it really looks like your trigger is in cockeyed. If you don't install the hammer does your trigger work with the safety. I know that sounds like a strange question, but if the hole for the trigger pin is over sized it might allow the trigger to move left and right when the springs are under pressure. |
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Might want to try another companys safety. I probably will have to. Thank you again for your help. Is it at all strange that the trigger is so much closer to the right-hand side? Are you seeing that on other rifles that you have? I notice that the wall thickness of the receiver is a lot more on that side so maybe it's somewhat of an optical illusion? |
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I ran into a similar problem years ago. As I recall I ended up replacing everything; hammer, trigger and safety. I finally decided it was just to many parts at the outside of their allowable variances. From the pictures it does appear that either your trigger, the pins or the holes are out of alignment. It might be an optical illusion but it really looks like your trigger is in cockeyed. If you don't install the hammer does your trigger work with the safety. I know that sounds like a strange question, but if the hole for the trigger pin is over sized it might allow the trigger to move left and right when the springs are under pressure. I can get it to work occasionally with a gritty pull with the stock pins but don't trust that it will stay in that alignment. It never works with the KNS pins. Everything works until I put the detent in the safety selector and that prevents the selector from giving in to the offset of the trigger. There is a little slop that the trigger has and it can move side to side in the trigger well. |
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What brand lower, what lower parts kit? Does this lower have a trigger adjustment screw to adjust take up? If you tried a different FCG and safety,then your lower is jacked. I would try a different safety first. I'v had FCG that came in LPKs that after trying them, literally took and through them as far as i could. |
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What brand lower, what lower parts kit? Does this lower have a trigger adjustment screw to adjust take up? It's all black rain parts. I have now emailed them. I'm not intending to flame any brand just wanted to make sure there wasn't a common issue with a certain part or that I was missing something when I spoke with them. I'm not sure what you're asking on take up. The fcg has no adjustment it's a basic group. The upper has a screw to adjust slop out of the connection between the upper & lower receiver. |
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If you tried a different FCG and safety,then your lower is jacked. I would try a different safety first. I'v had FCG that came in LPKs that after trying them, literally took and through them as far as i could. Quoted:
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What brand lower, what lower parts kit? Does this lower have a trigger adjustment screw to adjust take up? If you tried a different FCG and safety,then your lower is jacked. I would try a different safety first. I'v had FCG that came in LPKs that after trying them, literally took and through them as far as i could. I don't have immediate access to a safety switch. If it had a wider fire relief area like mentioned above, it would probably work but it still seems odd that the tail end of the trigger is off center like it is? The trigger has some side movement on the pin like a 1/32" and if I push it all the way to the left, it seems centered over the threaded hole for the handgrip screw. So if I take all the slack and move the trigger to the left side and push the safety tigh in the hole and hold it tight agains the receiver without the detent it makes the trigger centered in the relief of the safety selector. But any movement of the trigger towards the right gets it to the shoulder of the selector and the safety detent moves the safety selector just a touch off of tight to the receiver. The more I look at it appears to be in there square but off center. |
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The tail end of the trigger does not set in the center of the safety groove in any lower that I have. sets to that side in all of them. It really does not look off center of the lower to me in the pics.One pic even makes the trigger look curved to me. One pic makes the left side trigger pin look higher than the right to me but it is just the camera angel causing it.
I think I would try another companys safety first. Maybe complete fire control group. |
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It's all black rain parts. I have now emailed them. I'm not intending to flame any brand just wanted to make sure there wasn't a common issue with a certain part or that I was missing something when I spoke with them. I'm not sure what you're asking on take up. The fcg has no adjustment it's a basic group. The upper has a screw to adjust slop out of the connection between the upper & lower receiver. Quoted:
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What brand lower, what lower parts kit? Does this lower have a trigger adjustment screw to adjust take up? It's all black rain parts. I have now emailed them. I'm not intending to flame any brand just wanted to make sure there wasn't a common issue with a certain part or that I was missing something when I spoke with them. I'm not sure what you're asking on take up. The fcg has no adjustment it's a basic group. The upper has a screw to adjust slop out of the connection between the upper & lower receiver. I respect your choice not to jump right out and throw them under the bus. Blackrain usually has a good customer service dept so getting the issue resolved should not be a problem. |
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The tail end of the trigger does not set in the center of the safety groove in any lower that I have. sets to that side in all of them. It really does not look off center of the lower to me in the pics.One pic even makes the trigger look curved to me. One pic makes the left side trigger pin look higher than the right to me but it is just the camera angel causing it. I think I would try another companys safety first. Maybe complete fire control group. OK. Few last pics with all the extras out of the way full shot of trigger without glare trigger slid to right side of receiver (left side of image) trigger slid to the left side of receiver (right side of picture) |
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I respect your choice not to jump right out and throw them under the bus. Blackrain usually has a good customer service dept so getting the issue resolved should not be a problem. Quoted:
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What brand lower, what lower parts kit? Does this lower have a trigger adjustment screw to adjust take up? It's all black rain parts. I have now emailed them. I'm not intending to flame any brand just wanted to make sure there wasn't a common issue with a certain part or that I was missing something when I spoke with them. I'm not sure what you're asking on take up. The fcg has no adjustment it's a basic group. The upper has a screw to adjust slop out of the connection between the upper & lower receiver. I respect your choice not to jump right out and throw them under the bus. Blackrain usually has a good customer service dept so getting the issue resolved should not be a problem. Yeah. I didn't even want to mention brand. Hopefully I hear something soon and am back on here bragging about their customer service. I've blown my budget away on this build because I intentionally sought out their products as they appear to be high quality |
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Still think I would just get another brand safety and try it. Maybe swap out trigger also. Is that one of the MIM made triggers?
Have seen triggers made incorrectly with the hole to low that would cause the trigger to set high and hit the safety before releasing the hammer but that was years ago. All safeties are not cut the same depth in the trigger pocket either. |
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Still think I would just get another brand safety and try it. Maybe swap out trigger also. Is that one of the MIM made triggers? Have seen triggers made incorrectly with the hole to low that would cause the trigger to set high and hit the safety before releasing the hammer but that was years ago. All safeties are not cut the same depth in the trigger pocket either. I'm sure a different safety is in the works. Hoping to hear something from them as all parts fall under their brand and all are new. The trigger will fire if you make sure it's slid all the way to the left and the safety selector is pushed all the way in tight. So the hole isn't too low. |
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No company in the history of the world has made 100% perfect parts,Shit happens,Black Rain will take care of you,It seems you already understand this. Alotta folks would be jumpin up an down kickin an screamin. I salute you. Thanks. I spoke with a rep from Black Rain and at no point were they anything less than willing to make this deal right. I borrowed a safety selector from a friend and as pointed out by J3, my safety is fuct. The collar was the issue: My safety Friend's safety Thank you so much everybody who chimed in and helped. 
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