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I just did 40-48 seeing as this post is pretty helpful
Half of the posts were either in regards to which light from surfire is best or either thanking Pat for responding to their 1st post or wondering why Pat left The usual "keep her lubed" and "only buy a colt" was popular too Here are the specific take aways I found - mag feed lip problem on an older 20-round mag - hammer j pin broken - bushmaster had a broken extractor that then ruined bolt - bushmaster had a bolt locking lug break at 12k rounds - barrel nut vibrated loose - ejector spring broke - stag arms broken ejection port cover |
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I seem to remember Pat mentioning something about some sort of super whizz-bang extractor that can be used in lieu of the standard one that comes with a typical bolt. I've looked on a couple of separate occasions but haven't been able to find that post. Anyone recall that being mentioned here? |
12.5, 15.50, 18.5 ...
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Originally Posted By Winn: I seem to remember Pat mentioning something about some sort of super whizz-bang extractor that can be used in lieu of the standard one that comes with a typical bolt. I've looked on a couple of separate occasions but haven't been able to find that post. Anyone recall that being mentioned here? Nope, unless you just mean the black insert/5 coil spring +/- the viton O-ring. And most of the better brands come with the insert/spring already. |
Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good. ~Paine
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I'd be interested in finding out if there was a particular extractor that Pat had recc. using. Anyone at all recall what this was? I'm in the process of buying some spare parts based on this thread, and am particularly interested in mention of a high quality extractor. Anybody remember what it may be??
Here's my spare parts list I want to assemble, based on the results of this thread (with note to self of the ones I already have): High quality BCG Disconnector Ejector spring Firing pin retainer pin Extractor Buffer retainer pin Bolt cam pin Charging handle (got it) Trigger spring (got it) Bolt rings (got it) Buffer spring (got it) Extractor spring (got it) BCM and Rainer websites were mentioned for buying spare parts. Also Colt and LMT parts from Borwnells. Which of these three choices has the best quality at the best price?? So far, I've accumulated the spares I have (as opposed to intentionally buying them). |
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Originally Posted By baitdragger:
I just did 40-48 seeing as this post is pretty helpful Half of the posts were either in regards to which light from surfire is best or either thanking Pat for responding to their 1st post or wondering why Pat left The usual "keep her lubed" and "only buy a colt" was popular too Here are the specific take aways I found - mag feed lip problem on an older 20-round mag - hammer j pin broken - bushmaster had a broken extractor that then ruined bolt - bushmaster had a bolt locking lug break at 12k rounds - barrel nut vibrated loose - ejector spring broke - stag arms broken ejection port cover And the great summary you posted was exactly what I was wanting to know when I first posted this some time ago. Bill |
Happiness is a warm gun,
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
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Originally Posted By Another-Bill:
Originally Posted By baitdragger:
I just did 40-48 seeing as this post is pretty helpful Half of the posts were either in regards to which light from surfire is best or either thanking Pat for responding to their 1st post or wondering why Pat left The usual "keep her lubed" and "only buy a colt" was popular too Here are the specific take aways I found - mag feed lip problem on an older 20-round mag - hammer j pin broken - bushmaster had a broken extractor that then ruined bolt - bushmaster had a bolt locking lug break at 12k rounds - barrel nut vibrated loose - ejector spring broke - stag arms broken ejection port cover And the great summary you posted was exactly what I was wanting to know when I first posted this some time ago. Bill Since you are the topic author, you should edit the title to read that "Thread summaries are on pages 48-49." Either that or make a definitive list of all of the items mentioned in the summaries and edit the first post. That would be cool. and thanks for starting a great thread! 
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"Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.”
― Mark Twain
― Mark Twain
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Here's my quick and dirty summary of this thread:
*PARTS FAILURE: -bolt -bolt cam pin -bolt carrier -bolt carrier gas key (staking) -bolt/gas rings -extractor -extractor pin -extractor spring -firing pin -firing pin retaining pin -charging handle/latch pin -castle nut (loosening) -buffer retainer pin -buffer spring -hammer/trigger/disconnector springs & pins -triggers (match & aftermarket) -barrel nut (loosening) -forward assist/pin -ejection port cover -mag feed lips -unsecured optics -slings *REPLACE: -Upper/barrel @ 12-15k -Bolt may be replaced NLT 10k -Lower's internals @ 10k *M.E.A.L.: -Magazines -Extrator -Ammunition -Lube *NOTES: -Most problems relate to MEAL -Buy quality parts, mags and ammo -Use plenty of lube -Locktite all screws and index mark 'em. -Have a spare or back up -Aimpoint, LaRue, Surefire, BCM and PMAGs are GTG. |
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Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
Originally Posted By Another-Bill:
Originally Posted By baitdragger:
I just did 40-48 seeing as this post is pretty helpful Half of the posts were either in regards to which light from surfire is best or either thanking Pat for responding to their 1st post or wondering why Pat left The usual "keep her lubed" and "only buy a colt" was popular too Here are the specific take aways I found - mag feed lip problem on an older 20-round mag - hammer j pin broken - bushmaster had a broken extractor that then ruined bolt - bushmaster had a bolt locking lug break at 12k rounds - barrel nut vibrated loose - ejector spring broke - stag arms broken ejection port cover And the great summary you posted was exactly what I was wanting to know when I first posted this some time ago. Bill Since you are the topic author, you should edit the title to read that "Thread summaries are on pages 48-49." Either that or make a definitive list of all of the items mentioned in the summaries and edit the first post. That would be cool. and thanks for starting a great thread!
Good Idea, I did it. Thanks to all who have added so much information. Bill |
Happiness is a warm gun,
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
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Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By Another-Bill:
Good Idea, I did it. Thanks to all who have added so much information. Bill I think something may have gotten goofed up. I don't see the edited / updated info. 
It's on the first post on the first page. Bill |
Happiness is a warm gun,
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
|
Originally Posted By Another-Bill:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By Another-Bill:
Good Idea, I did it. Thanks to all who have added so much information. Bill I think something may have gotten goofed up. I don't see the edited / updated info.
It's on the first post on the first page. Bill Have you double checked your post ... ? Sorry, but there's nothing there.
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12.5, 15.50, 18.5
Poznai Sebia ...
Poznai Sebia ...
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Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By Another-Bill:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By Another-Bill:
Good Idea, I did it. Thanks to all who have added so much information. Bill I think something may have gotten goofed up. I don't see the edited / updated info.
It's on the first post on the first page. Bill Have you double checked your post ... ? Sorry, but there's nothing there.
It's in the title or header. Bill |
Happiness is a warm gun,
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
| I really like this thread. I have built Frank-parts M4 using all Top-Shelf Parts using BCM FA-BCG,Colt barrel, BCM unmarked upper Rec. What are Top Shelf lower parts kits? I have used DPMS and Double Star LPK . I am not sure if the DPMS will hold-up for the long haul. |
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I have never used one of these "AR Receiver Rugs", but they supposedly work, and they are inexpensive.
My buddy's rifle went tits up during a carbine class because of a popped primer. His trigger group was locked up tight. This simple item would have prevented that. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/970550/dpms-molded-receiver-rug-ar-15-mil-spec-trigger-rubber-red I think I'm gonna buy one and try it for awhile in my 3-gun rifle. |
"Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.”
― Mark Twain
― Mark Twain
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Originally Posted By Kilroytheknifesnob: I appreciate everyone going through and making a list of parts that break, but you guys pretty much listed everything an AR contains. Perhaps a weighted list would be more helpful? High failure parts in a carbine course are high failure parts whenever, they just come to the fore much quicker when you start wringing the piece out. Replacement parts to have (near as I can tell, though I'm no instructor) I'm refing JSE Surplus for no particular reason other than that I know they have (or at least list) all of the parts and are okay folks to work with. Spare bolt http://www.jsesurplus.com/jpboltcarriercompletionkit.aspx Bolt Component Kit http://www.jsesurplus.com/dpmsar15boltcomponentkit.aspx Lower spring kit http://www.jsesurplus.com/jselowerpartsessentialspringkit.aspx Bolt Carrier Group, if you're spooked http://www.jsesurplus.com/ar15boltandcarrierassy-rra-2-1.aspx Buffer Spring. http://www.jsesurplus.com/ar15a2bufferspring.aspx Whole thing will fit in a cargo pocket or medium GP pouch. And you don't really need the carrier most times so long as you have one that's of decent quality. Buffers and buffer retention pins/springs do fail, but so rarely (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) it's borderline paranoia to carry them around. Still, they don't weigh much, so if you feel unlucky, go for it. |
You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.
— Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German poet, novelist, playwright, scientist and philosopher (1749-1832)
— Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German poet, novelist, playwright, scientist and philosopher (1749-1832)
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Originally Posted By Kilroytheknifesnob:
I appreciate everyone going through and making a list of parts that break, but you guys pretty much listed everything an AR contains. Perhaps a weighted list would be more helpful? I think the following would be good to have in the spare parts bin: -lower parts kit -bolt & carrier -bolt cam pin -bolt/gas rings -extractor -extractor pin -extractor spring & upgrade kit -firing pin -firing pin retaining pin -buffer spring -charging handle |
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Originally Posted By C_1:
Originally Posted By Kilroytheknifesnob:
I appreciate everyone going through and making a list of parts that break, but you guys pretty much listed everything an AR contains. Perhaps a weighted list would be more helpful? I think the following would be good to have in the spare parts bin: -lower parts kit -bolt & carrier -bolt cam pin -bolt/gas rings -extractor -extractor pin -extractor spring & upgrade kit -firing pin -firing pin retaining pin -buffer spring -charging handle For me: -lower parts kit -bolt & carrier -extractor -extractor spring & upgrade kit Bill |
Happiness is a warm gun,
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
| Seems like there would be an inspection or criteria for the equipment brought to a class to eliminate a lot of the problems or stoppages. Can't understand why you'd spend the money for the class and then bring substandard equipment. In reading this, the vast majority of problems can be traced to the BCG, so make sure you bring a spare. |
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Originally Posted By devinsdad: Seems like there would be an inspection or criteria for the equipment brought to a class to eliminate a lot of the problems or stoppages. Can't understand why you'd spend the money for the class and then bring substandard equipment. In reading this, the vast majority of problems can be traced to the BCG, so make sure you bring a spare. Sully at Defensive Edge kinda does this. Before a carbine class we take our rifles apart, go over parts/nomenclature and such, inspect the parts and lube the rifles up. Sully is an armorer and brings almost a full kit to fix many deficiencies found(firing pin retaining pins, gas rings, carrier key staker, extractor springs and o rings, etc.) |
"It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it hath it not." - Jeremy Taylor
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Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
Bump. Too much good info in this thread to let it go to archives. it's tagged to never go into the archives - otherwise it'd already been shunted there. |
'97 Jeep XJ Owner, former '98 XJ Owner
"Free thinking is great.. that's how the Assault wheelbarrow with silenced .22 rifle was born..." Harv24
"Free thinking is great.. that's how the Assault wheelbarrow with silenced .22 rifle was born..." Harv24
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Not a broken part, but my buddy's carbine was rendered completely useless in the middle of a carbine class by a popped primer that
fell into his lower and got wedged under the safety selector. I had always heard it could happen, but had never seen it with my own eyes until recently. |
"Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.”
― Mark Twain
― Mark Twain
|
Originally Posted By Lloyd-Jr:
DPMS - AR-15/M16 RECEIVER RUG http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/buffer-tube-parts/buffer-tube-hardware/ar-15-m16-receiver-rug-prod32442.aspx?psize=96&avs|Make_3=AR-15zz1zzM4 "May cause small increase to trigger pull." How many here have actually tried this thing? |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
0110001101101100011010010110001101101011
0110001101101100011010010110001101101011
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Originally Posted By tc556guy:
"May cause small increase to trigger pull." How many here have actually tried this thing? Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By Lloyd-Jr:
DPMS - AR-15/M16 RECEIVER RUG http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/buffer-tube-parts/buffer-tube-hardware/ar-15-m16-receiver-rug-prod32442.aspx?psize=96&avs|Make_3=AR-15zz1zzM4 "May cause small increase to trigger pull." How many here have actually tried this thing? I'd like to know as well as I have seen this happen once more than once. |
Happiness is a warm gun,
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
Bang bang, shoot shoot.
The Beatles
Nov. 1968
|
Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
Not a broken part, but my buddy's carbine was rendered completely useless in the middle of a carbine class by a popped primer that fell into his lower and got wedged under the safety selector. I had always heard it could happen, but had never seen it with my own eyes until recently. That's why military ammo has crimped in primers 
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This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
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I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, FL, MI, SC, NH - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
| On the subject of breakage (or potential breakage) I would like to add that there have been some Communist Chinese AR parts coming into the country of late. As far as we can tell these parts are substandard and/or made from inferior materials. . For repair work we only use 100% American made parts purchased from reliable manufacturers that guarantee that test accordingly and meet or exceed mil-std specifications. Its always good to have the best quality parts in your rifle. One day your rifle may mean your life. |
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Originally Posted By Gamma762:
That's why military ammo has crimped in primers Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
Not a broken part, but my buddy's carbine was rendered completely useless in the middle of a carbine class by a popped primer that fell into his lower and got wedged under the safety selector. I had always heard it could happen, but had never seen it with my own eyes until recently. That's why military ammo has crimped in primers I've had popped out primers with usgi ammo. Crimped primers may help but they won't prevent if pressures high enough. |
Nothing in this post should be considered information posted in an official capacity. It is the authors personal opinion alone.
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Great thread. The summaries are great too, but given that they list almost every part, did Pat ever give round counts for when to replace parts?
I saw in C_1's post that: *REPLACE: -Upper/barrel @ 12-15k -Bolt may be replaced NLT 10k -Lower's internals @ 10k |
Job 1:21
"And he said, 'Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.'”
"And he said, 'Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.'”
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Originally Posted By BurtSaun1049:
Great thread. The summaries are great too, but given that they list almost every part, did Pat ever give round counts for when to replace parts? I saw in C_1's post that: *REPLACE: -Upper/barrel @ 12-15k -Bolt may be replaced NLT 10k -Lower's internals @ 10k That is basicly what he had to add about the replacement of parts. Excellent thread btw. A lot of good and knowledgeable information. |
Despite what your mamma told you, violence does solve problems!
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Iraq - 03/04
Iraq - 07/08
RIP Amos Nelson
RIP Jason Gore
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Originally Posted By allforgotten1:
Sully at Defensive Edge kinda does this. Before a carbine class we take our rifles apart, go over parts/nomenclature and such, inspect the parts and lube the rifles up. Sully is an armorer and brings almost a full kit to fix many deficiencies found(firing pin retaining pins, gas rings, carrier key staker, extractor springs and o rings, etc.) Originally Posted By allforgotten1:
Originally Posted By devinsdad:
Seems like there would be an inspection or criteria for the equipment brought to a class to eliminate a lot of the problems or stoppages. Can't understand why you'd spend the money for the class and then bring substandard equipment. In reading this, the vast majority of problems can be traced to the BCG, so make sure you bring a spare. Sully at Defensive Edge kinda does this. Before a carbine class we take our rifles apart, go over parts/nomenclature and such, inspect the parts and lube the rifles up. Sully is an armorer and brings almost a full kit to fix many deficiencies found(firing pin retaining pins, gas rings, carrier key staker, extractor springs and o rings, etc.) I haven't taken a carbine class from Sully, but I did take his armorer's course. Excellent class, everyone took their rifle down to the point no two parts were touching, and put it back together. I learned a ton from that class. |
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Wow.
This thread is absolutely amazing. I swear I hear a choir of angels singing when I stumbled onto this thread, a sort of golden glowing haze began to softly reveal itself from behind my monitor and then I noticed the header advising pages 48-49. I'll probably go over the entire thread anyway (eventually, bit by bit and more than once as this is a LOT of information to digest), but this was really, really a phenomenal production. This thread should be considered homework for anyone new to owning an AR, this is good stuff. My hat's off for this one. Awesome. |
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Originally Posted By drshame:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/drshame/BroeknBoltII.jpg +1 For complete spare bolt. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/drshame/TwinFailures.jpg From my personal experience it's not just a question IF a bolt will fail but exactly WHEN. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/drshame/bolt.jpg And it's a well documented problem that effects the "platform" not just casual "hobby" guns. good lord, that's serious WTF stuff there. That looks horrible, this is common after (what 10k, 20k rounds of consistant mill spec, probably a lot sooner if you had some russian stuff where 1 of 50 rounds was really really 'hot'), too much normal use? That bolt looks like a pretty solid piece of metal, but it looks like it just sheared. Sheared cleanly almost, where those imperfections in the steel when it cooled? I thought this level of steel was pretty homogenous/even throughout. Someone said that MPI inspection was to look for too much uneveness in the alloy distribution in certain metals. If such is common then a foraged lower I can see now why would be stronger. Any such imperfection pockets would be stretched out a little bit more, and so would the surrounding metal structure. If a weakspot tries to develop, the surrounding material that is not so imperfect would provide additional support to the potential fracture point / weaker spots. (sort like the weakest 'link' in the metal is supported more by the less weaker links around it). Is this on target? What about round count to expect such a think to happen to a bolt using quality but nice hot millspec ammo only? I swear that post about MPI testing purposes/method went right in one ear and out the other almost but seeing this made me really think about it again. |
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