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Posted: 12/23/2013 4:07:01 PM EDT
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I'm in the process of building my first AR and have a frustrating moment. I bought a Rainier raptor ambi-charging handle, greased it per this link (half way down), and charged it a few dozen times to get a feel for it (pulling back, releasing and letting it go forward under its own power). After probably the 30th time it jammed, and it took some effort for it to break free. After pulling it out and looking at the point where it interfaces with the bolt carrier I noticed this. Before I go pointing fingers at anyone else I want to point it at myself, so, what could I have done wrong in order to cause this? It has caused some minor scarring on the bolt carrier, but for the most part the BC is still unharmed (thankfully, being that it's a much harder metal).
Just to note, I wiped the grease off for pictures. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/salem2022/IMG_20131222_090257_448_zpsb2a1115b.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/salem2022/IMG_20131222_090406_704_zpsc1af9500.jpg |
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Quoted:
Do you have a barrel installed? Is this a completely assembled rifle? Minus a barrel, otherwise everything else is assembled. Is this a requirement for operating the charging handle? If so, why is that needed for the charging handle to function properly? That is a legitimate question, I haven't seen anywhere saying you shouldn't operate the charging handle without a barrel. |
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Quoted:
Minus a barrel, otherwise everything else is assembled. Is this a requirement for operating the charging handle? If so, why is that needed for the charging handle to function properly? That is a legitimate question, I haven't seen anywhere saying you shouldn't operate the charging handle without a barrel. Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you have a barrel installed? Is this a completely assembled rifle? Minus a barrel, otherwise everything else is assembled. Is this a requirement for operating the charging handle? If so, why is that needed for the charging handle to function properly? That is a legitimate question, I haven't seen anywhere saying you shouldn't operate the charging handle without a barrel. That is what I figured. You need the barrel installed. The bolt engages the barrel extension. |
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Racking the CH in an upper with no barrel? Your CH is getting slammed by the gas key, resulting in the peening your seeing.
The carrier, with bolt installed, is what halts the forward motion and prevents the CH from getting slammed. What's you gas key look like? |
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Quoted:
Racking the CH in an upper with no barrel? Your CH is getting slammed by the gas key, resulting in the peening your seeing. The carrier, with bolt installed, is what halts the forward motion and prevents the CH from getting slammed. What's you gas key look like? Gas key looks untouched. No marring, shine, or deformation. There is a slight shine where it has been rubbing in the channel of the CH, but barely noticeable. I'm still confused on how the barrel extension would prevent this? If I look at the barrel end of the upper and push the BC up, I can notice there is very slight play in where the BC rides, but playing with the CH as I pull back I can see it gets more and more play the further out it gets (a scary amount, in my opinion). This makes me think the CH is slipping on the engagement of the BC as I pull back, and then causing the deformation in the pictures. I honestly hope this is remedied with a barrel, but I'm having a hard time visualizing how a barrel would solve this problem (without having a barrel in hand). Are there any videos or examples why that people know of? |
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As a newbie myself, I was just wondering - can the OP lightly file or sand the charging handle and use it? Not trying to hijack his/her thread - just curious Quoted:
As a newbie myself, I was just wondering - can the OP lightly file or sand the charging handle and use it? Not trying to hijack his/her thread - just curious That's exactly what I did. I actually ended up removing quite a bit of metal to get it back to the shape that it was originally. It just has a slightly thinner end now. Originally Posted By Alaska511:
You will just have to trust us on this one; it is the truth. Good luck with your build. I don't not trust you guys (hence why I am here asking), but I like explanations instead of taking people's word for something. With that said, I feel stupid and understand what you guys are saying. I took the CH out and left the BC in, and see that it slides forward another 1/8" or so inside the upper, where as with the CH in it will stop short due to the CH end hitting the gas tube hole. Where I was mistaken is thinking the deformation was happening on the pull back, instead of on the slam forward where the BC wanted to continue going another 1/8". Thank you for clearing this up. |
| I'm guilty of doing this maybe 20 times or so to test with my build, but I never let the bolt slam forward. Always pulled it back and let it go forward again with resistance. As such I've noticed a tiny bit of wear on my upper receiver, maybe that's from not having the barrel installed also. Or maybe it's from not lubing it before I tested it. At any rate, I don't see any damage on the BCG or CH so I'm good to go. What part of the gas key would show wear in any case, the rim where the gas tube inserts? |
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It is not being hit by the key but by the offset at the front of the bolt carrier where it engages it to pull back the carrier. like stated damaged by cycling it with no barrel.
You don't have to take my word for it it is easy enough to see by checking how much further the carrier travels without the charging handle installed. |
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Don't be mad, be glad you figured it out with some help, the operation of any rifle, semi or bolt action is a mystery to lot's of owners and new guys/gals. Learn from it, and thank your lucky stars, that the part you damaged is lower cost than some others.
I'm a M1A and M1 Garand, owner, one of our newer local shooters brings me his real old beat up M1 cmp rifle, and says, it never extracts the shell after each shot, took me about a second to see why, his gas plug was missing, he said it used to shoot just fine, but the last time he shot it, he noticed this problem, and would just manually extract the shell each shot, never wondering why until month's later, maybe when someone said hey grab your stuff, were going shooting. Live and learn. It can happen to anyone. Would suck during a match though. I did ask him if he had got an M1 thumb yet, got a what look, I said ok, go order the part you need. I sent him to Fulton Armory here in Md. This did remind me of a funny doctor joke, " it hurts when i do this! Doctor, well don't do that and it won't hurt." I thought it was funny and so true. Enjoy. |
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