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Posted: 7/26/2014 6:37:20 PM EDT
| I need help choosing between the BFH light weight upper with 13" KMR or the standard enhanced light weight upper with same rail. Pros and cons for each or does it matter at all? Also, it appears both of these are shipping right now with the BCM Mod 0 compensator installed with no other option. I don't mind too much as I have a standard A2 FH I can install if I don't like the Mod 0. Out of curiosity, is there a lot more muzzle blast with the Mod 0 than the A2 and is there less flash suppression than with the A2? I just prefer flash suppression to compensation. Thanks for any help. |
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I have a 14.5 ELWF w/ 13" KMR and pinned Mod 1 comp. It's worked it's way into the top of the rotation. I like the GF comp a lot there is more blast than an A2 but its not like a brake. It does make the gun more controllable. I'm not real sure on flash suppression though. I haven't shot it a night yet, but in low light I do notice some very small flashes. Nothing to write home about though.
My vote goes to the ELW |
| I'm pretty sure the standard barrel will be accurate enough for me. From what I've read and heard the ELW should do 2" at 100 with good ammo, is that correct? I like the lighter part, and the cheaper part, and I'm sure I won't wear it out, so if it is accurate enough, it sounds like I need to go ELW upper. Any other arguments to convince me otherwise? |
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Barrel longevity is a great benefit of CHF barrels over standard. But to smoke a standard barrel, you better have real deep pockets for the amount of ammo it would take to do so.
All that blah out of the way, if it were me I would not hesitate for a second to go with the ELW or ELW fluted. For me it would be 14.5in barrel with 13in. KMR. Actually make that a 16in. middie with a 15in. KMR. Remember too, now their uppers come with a BCM bcg as well. No longer an extra charge. If I only had the coin 
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. Why would you go with the 15 KMR over the 13 on a 16" barrel? Oh, and it will be a middie.
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If you ever have the opprotunity to move the front and rear sights away from one another, you do it. The greater the sight radius the better, if your running irons.
The tradeoff, and there will always be one somewhere, is weight gain. It also depends on how you like to grip the rail. Way out there? 16in is the ticket. Not so much? 13 would work great. All personal preference. I run irons only, so for me, sight radius is king of the county. Remember sight radius equals accuracy. |
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Something else to think about is a light and soforth. A bit more rail space might just make the placement of your hand and how that relates to comfortablty running said light something else to ponder. More room to roam so to speak.
Quite frankly, as a side benefit at least to my eyes, it looks so much better. . |
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This post was made on TOS by BCM's lead engineer and designer. Might be worth a read before you choose BFH over Standard or vice versa:
button vs hammer forged: "steel is steel" and so the expansion, all things being equal, will be about the same. That said, the cold hammer forge process creates what we call residual stress. Basically, the steel is still under pressure once it's finished. For an applied load, the actual stress of the material starts from a negative (verus zero), and therefore can take much more load prior to hitting yield. How much more is highly dependent on many variables. This is especially true for the bore, where the vast majority of the cold work, and therefore the residual stress, is retained. We effectively create a barrel that has a stronger-than-normal (even though hardness is still close to the same) liner with a considerable wall thickness. The grain of the metal will also be refined and we'd expect to see long grains (since barrel blanks start short and end long) on the surface which are tightly packed together. The impact it has on overall expansion should be minimal, and given that the residual stress state is fairly uniform from end-to-end, we wouldn't expect to see any warpage when heated versus if the profile were less than uniform. We still have the same effects from other discontinuities, but all things equal the forged barrel still has the strength advantage with the residual stresses. The tighter grain structure also gives a superior surface for applying chrome and the higher quality surface will resist corrosion better due to the tightly packed grains (similar to the corrosion inhibition seen on polished surfaces, even when untreated). These are the major benefits of the hammer forged barrels: they resist wear better due to the residual stresses and better surface finish and the hard chrome tends to lay itself down in a more uniform and dense coating which increases the benefits offered by the chrome. |
| Thanks for the info, I forgot about sight radius as this is my first upper w/o a standard FSB so I have never had the option. With the keymod rail, I would imagine 2" is not that big a weight gain, I'll have to check the specs, but at this point it doesn't really concern me too much. |
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Thanks for the info, I forgot about sight radius as this is my first upper w/o a standard FSB so I have never had the option. With the keymod rail, I would imagine 2" is not that big a weight gain, I'll have to check the specs, but at this point it doesn't really concern me too much. Exactly. You'll gain a small amount (read insignificant) of weight. You'll also gain so much more that will benefit you as a shooter. |
| Ok, so 15" KMR, but after reading the statement from BCM's engineer, I'm wondering if there is that much of an advantage? It sounds like if you need the strongest, longest lasting barrel ever, then BFH is the way to go. But we have been using standard barrels for 50 years or so with excellent results. I guess I just talked myself into an ELW barrel. |
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Quoted:
This post was made on TOS by BCM's lead engineer and designer. Might be worth a read before you choose BFH over Standard or vice versa: Quoted:
This post was made on TOS by BCM's lead engineer and designer. Might be worth a read before you choose BFH over Standard or vice versa: button vs hammer forged: "steel is steel" and so the expansion, all things being equal, will be about the same. That said, the cold hammer forge process creates what we call residual stress. Basically, the steel is still under pressure once it's finished. For an applied load, the actual stress of the material starts from a negative (verus zero), and therefore can take much more load prior to hitting yield. How much more is highly dependent on many variables. This is especially true for the bore, where the vast majority of the cold work, and therefore the residual stress, is retained. We effectively create a barrel that has a stronger-than-normal (even though hardness is still close to the same) liner with a considerable wall thickness. The grain of the metal will also be refined and we'd expect to see long grains (since barrel blanks start short and end long) on the surface which are tightly packed together. The impact it has on overall expansion should be minimal, and given that the residual stress state is fairly uniform from end-to-end, we wouldn't expect to see any warpage when heated versus if the profile were less than uniform. We still have the same effects from other discontinuities, but all things equal the forged barrel still has the strength advantage with the residual stresses. The tighter grain structure also gives a superior surface for applying chrome and the higher quality surface will resist corrosion better due to the tightly packed grains (similar to the corrosion inhibition seen on polished surfaces, even when untreated). These are the major benefits of the hammer forged barrels: they resist wear better due to the residual stresses and better surface finish and the hard chrome tends to lay itself down in a more uniform and dense coating which increases the benefits offered by the chrome. I strongly suggest this to all here. His user name is Phreakish I believe. You'll feels smarter afterward. And that is where I got the information I gave you earlier in this thread. If you can wait, they coming out with ELW CHF barrels. Its the when that is the great unknown. |
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Ok, so 15" KMR, but after reading the statement from BCM's engineer, I'm wondering if there is that much of an advantage? It sounds like if you need the strongest, longest lasting barrel ever, then BFH is the way to go. But we have been using standard barrels for 50 years or so with excellent results. I guess I just talked myself into an ELW barrel. I own a CHF barrel in my ar. I personaly would take BCM's ELW right now without hesitation. Again, you'll in all likelyhood go broke buying enough ammo to kill that barrel. |
| Thanks for all the help, it will be 16" midlength ELW with 15" KMR. I'd like to get the ELW with CHF when they become available, but I've already been waiting 3 months to get enough money and with a free BCG, I cannot stand it anymore. I'm going to go add to cart right now. |
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Thanks for all the help, it will be 16" midlength ELW with 15" KMR. I'd like to get the ELW with CHF when they become available, but I've already been waiting 3 months to get enough money and with a free BCG, I cannot stand it anymore. I'm going to go add to cart right now. You go boy! 
Edit, Man do hate to say this.... its out of stock. I feel terrible. I sincerely apologize. I can't afford it so I was happy to help you figure it all out and now this. All fired up and ready... so sorry bro 
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Yes, by all accounts that I've come across.
I am no expert though when it comes to cans and barrel selection. But thats what originally drove me to the government profile. Hit TOS for better info, they have it in spades. More technical in nature. I'll save you some possible grief if your not familiar with TOS. There is in the top right corner I believe a search tab. Use it and post your query to there. I say that because even though you can learn a heck of alot, they can be... how to put it? ...curt when it comes to threads being opened that had been previously discussed. Trying to save you from possible aggrevation. Here for fun and some learning, like going to school and having a substitute teacher for the day 
There is the principals office  . My take on it anyway. YMMV.
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| OK, just got back from the website, and saw your posts about it being out of stock. When I saw that, I was like AAaaaarrrgggh, but like I said, I can't wait so I went with the 13"KMR. If I just can't live with it, I'll get a longer rail eventually. But for now, it's ordered!!!!! |
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Yes, by all accounts that I've come across. I am no expert though when it comes to cans and barrel selection. But thats what originally drove me to the government profile. Hit TOS for better info, they have it in spades. More technical in nature. TOS  Sorry...but I haven't got all the TLAs down. 
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OK, just got back from the website, and saw your posts about it being out of stock. When I saw that, I was like AAaaaarrrgggh, but like I said, I can't wait so I went with the 13"KMR. If I just can't live with it, I'll get a longer rail eventually. But for now, it's ordered!!!!! Right after i posted Go boy!, I went to look for myself  I had that rug pulled out from under feeling.
I was glad I could help, but man that was anticlimactic! On a positive note they both use the same barrel nut so switching them out is two screws and DONE! Also you WILL be happy when santa and his brown truck of joy and wonder arrive! LOL |
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Quoted:
Barrel longevity is a great benefit of CHF barrels over standard. But to smoke a standard barrel, you better have real deep pockets for the amount of ammo it would take to do so. All that blah out of the way, if it were me I would not hesitate for a second to go with the ELW or ELW fluted. For me it would be 14.5in barrel with 13in. KMR. Actually make that a 16in. middie with a 15in. KMR. Remember too, now their uppers come with a BCM bcg as well. No longer an extra charge. If I only had the coin
Say what? I'm sorry, I must've read that wrong. BCM is now giving away BCG's with their uppers? ....I do believe my next paycheck is going to be a wee bit short.  Any idea why they're offering this, or how long such a sale will last? Or if they're changing their overall business model?(Doing so will probably run a few budget AR manufacturers out of business once word gets out. They'll at least give Spikes and PSA a run for their money)
Ahem, sorry to derail your thread, OP. I'd recommend getting an upper with the DD Lite Rail since it's around $600, which is close to $100 off the cost of the rail itself. |
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Picked at random. The proof is in the pudding
Ok I'm lying LOL this is what the OP wanted. |
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I wish they had been giving the BCGs away a few weeks ago. After adding a BCG and a CH to the upper I wanted I realized that I was entering Noveske pricing territory, so I just went with another Noveske, which obviously includes both.
Anyhow, isn't it likely that the BCG being included is intended to drive the sale of in stock uppers prior to the release of the enhanced barrel profile BFH uppers? |
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I wish they had been giving the BCGs away a few weeks ago. After adding a BCG and a CH to the upper I wanted I realized that I was entering Noveske pricing territory, so I just went with another Noveske, which obviously includes both. Anyhow, isn't it likely that the BCG being included is intended to drive the sale of in stock uppers prior to the release of the enhanced barrel profile BFH uppers? What exactly is an "enhanced barrel profile"? What measurements / thickness / diameter / etc is it when compared to other profiles. |
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Research the BCM enhanced light weight and enhanced light weight fluted. Lots of guys are waiting for them to release these barrel profiles in the BFH barrel. They are currently available in the standard barrel. Their release was expected this summer.
I just think of the BCG being included as a way to move existing stock prior to a new and anticipated product being released. |
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EAG has 42,000 rounds through a standard barrel that's still serviceable. I went with the standard ELW <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/tboneguy915/media/22F05808-CB98-4EED-8DCE-C74BF4A89E6F_zpsqrwh2ws1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/tboneguy915/22F05808-CB98-4EED-8DCE-C74BF4A89E6F_zpsqrwh2ws1.jpg</a> I really don't know why you wouldn't.? I wish I had gone with one in retrospect, especially now that the BCG is included. I ended up with a Rogue Hunter instead. It seems that a major component of BRD is constantly determining what one "should" have purchased. I guess it's hard to have too many rifles. That weight is AMAZING. |
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I really don't know why you wouldn't.? I wish I had gone with one in retrospect, especially now that the BCG is included. I ended up with a Rogue Hunter instead. It seems that a major component of BRD is constantly determining what one "should" have purchased. I guess it's hard to have too many rifles. That weight is AMAZING. Quoted:
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EAG has 42,000 rounds through a standard barrel that's still serviceable. I went with the standard ELW <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/tboneguy915/media/22F05808-CB98-4EED-8DCE-C74BF4A89E6F_zpsqrwh2ws1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/tboneguy915/22F05808-CB98-4EED-8DCE-C74BF4A89E6F_zpsqrwh2ws1.jpg</a> I really don't know why you wouldn't.? I wish I had gone with one in retrospect, especially now that the BCG is included. I ended up with a Rogue Hunter instead. It seems that a major component of BRD is constantly determining what one "should" have purchased. I guess it's hard to have too many rifles. That weight is AMAZING. What's amazing is if/when I'll switch to a micro I'll be 11 ounces less. AKA a fully dress rifle under 6 pounds 
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What's amazing is if/when I'll switch to a micro I'll be 11 ounces less. AKA a fully dress rifle under 6 pounds <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/tboneguy915/media/23A77AD7-AB49-4A65-B430-A800B28CCA31_zpsxck3yfnm.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/tboneguy915/23A77AD7-AB49-4A65-B430-A800B28CCA31_zpsxck3yfnm.jpg</a> <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/tboneguy915/media/12B290E6-4930-47DA-B346-C1DD608111AF_zpslxhzi0nt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/tboneguy915/12B290E6-4930-47DA-B346-C1DD608111AF_zpslxhzi0nt.jpg</a> Quoted:
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EAG has 42,000 rounds through a standard barrel that's still serviceable. I went with the standard ELW <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/tboneguy915/media/22F05808-CB98-4EED-8DCE-C74BF4A89E6F_zpsqrwh2ws1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/tboneguy915/22F05808-CB98-4EED-8DCE-C74BF4A89E6F_zpsqrwh2ws1.jpg</a> I really don't know why you wouldn't.? I wish I had gone with one in retrospect, especially now that the BCG is included. I ended up with a Rogue Hunter instead. It seems that a major component of BRD is constantly determining what one "should" have purchased. I guess it's hard to have too many rifles. That weight is AMAZING. What's amazing is if/when I'll switch to a micro I'll be 11 ounces less. AKA a fully dress rifle under 6 pounds <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/tboneguy915/media/23A77AD7-AB49-4A65-B430-A800B28CCA31_zpsxck3yfnm.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/tboneguy915/23A77AD7-AB49-4A65-B430-A800B28CCA31_zpsxck3yfnm.jpg</a> <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/tboneguy915/media/12B290E6-4930-47DA-B346-C1DD608111AF_zpslxhzi0nt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y238/tboneguy915/12B290E6-4930-47DA-B346-C1DD608111AF_zpslxhzi0nt.jpg</a> Oh I noticed that right off the bat and was already thinking about a micro on it. I think my micros weigh about 4 oz on Larue QD mounts..? My similarly setup (keymod mid-length) rifle is a Noveske Gen iii Recce and with my surefire light, magpul ACS-L stock, and Eotech EXPS3 it comes in at 7lbs 13 oz I believe. I may switch to a CTR, swap a T1 off of one of my other rifles, and cut back on the rail covers, but that would still leave me at... better than 7lbs I bet. |
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6 pounds, 1 ounce.<a href="http://s58.photobucket.com/user/deputythrust/media/Weapons/IMG_8581_zps962ee8a4.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/deputythrust/Weapons/IMG_8581_zps962ee8a4.jpg</a> What upper is that? |
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