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Posted: 12/30/2009 11:48:24 PM EDT
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I just purchased an AR15 RR complete lower. I want this rifle to be as long range capable as possible. I'd like suggestions on caliber and source of upper. I have read a bit about the 6AR and the 6mm tubo 40. I would like to go a 6mm or simply the 5.56.
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Long Range shooting depends most on your ability on reading conditions and knowing your equipment. The cheapest way to learn is with a wylde 1-8 twist 223 bbl upper. 77-80 grn SMK's work well out to 800M. Read the wind, know your elevations for the load you are shooting,
and have fun. Save the 1k yard stuff (it's all expensive) for later..Good luck...oops gota go to a party..Hapy New Year.. |
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I'm a very experienced long range shooter. New to AR's. Been putting this project on the shelf for years. Finally time. 1k is a very comfortable range for me with other equipment. In bolt actions, I am very familiar with what each cartridge can do, what the costs are, availability, and other pros and cons... Certainly 1k is very doable with an AR and the 5.56 or other clibers. Just need to gather info. 1k is not the issue. I simply want an effective long range AR. This is my first AR. Because I am a long range shooter I want as competent a long range rig as "reasonably" possible.
Highest BC bullet usable in a 5.56 magazine? Which mag has the most usable internal length? Polymer, for example, doesn't need to have metal overlap for spot welds and could possibly gain a couple hundredths there. I've read DPMS offered a VLD mag which utilized the guide channel in the magazine for more room. Why are these mags discontinued? Are they a workable option? There's an 1/8" of additional capacity if they are.... Other simple calibers offering more performance pique my interest. 6AR, 6AR turbo40, 6xc, 6.5 Grendel, come to mind. But I'm not familiar with the choices. I am seeking some education here. I'm leaning towards a simple 8 twist, 20" A4 in 5.56. So far, the highest BC bullet that'll work well in the magazine is Hornady's 75hpbt at .395. The reviews were very positive, the BC and velocity isn't bad. I would like to know what the various options are for a long range oriented AR for varmint / target applications. I want details. What can I do with each caliber, what are the associated costs, where do I get particular calibers, dies, brass...... I'm doing my homework for a build. The lower is sitting here waiting.... |
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You're joking right? It's much more accurate at long ranges than the .223, due to a lighter projectile firing at 4000fps out of the box. it's a hell of a varmint round. That extra velocity also translates into about 10-20% more energy being delivered, on average.
The round is more accurate at long range, than most shooters. Especially the self-proclaimed "long range shooters". Shoot a .223 and a .204 side-by-side, and you'll see what I'm talking about. If you're not interested in the round, that's fine, but your reasoning is flawed. Remember, it was YOU who asked for suggestions. I'm just trying to help. If you want a full-power rifle cartridge, you should have gone with a .308 lower. |
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No, I'm not joking. The 5.56 is a significantly better choice for long range. Perhaps our definitions of long range are at odds. Let's say 600 yards and beyond. Go ahead and run the numbers. Take your 32 Grain at 4000 fps and compare it to a 75 grain at 2900fps. The bigger bullet has nearly half the wind drift, and 4X the payload. Yes, the 204 is flatter to a point. Flatter doesn't make long range hits much easier, less wind drift sure does. Also, the .223 at 2900 will have nearly endless barrel life and less fouling. How about your 4000fps load?
Now, if you step up to the 55 grain .204 Berger you are getting competitive. I had no idea there was a 55 grain .204. The published BC is such a huge jump over the 50 grain .204 I have to wonder if it can possibly be accurate.... No need to get defensive. I appreciate the suggestion. I was impressed by the numbers the .204 put up. And I did run them. So you at least generated some interest. As for the "full power" rounds, I asked about them. The 6mm ARturbo40 will push a 105 over 3000 fps on an AR platform. Pretty darn impressive performance from an AR. I doubt any of the 308 based calibers will better it. But, like I said, I am looking and asking. Thanks for the reply!! Quoted:
You're joking right? It's much more accurate at long ranges than the .223, due to a lighter projectile firing at 4000fps out of the box. it's a hell of a varmint round. That extra velocity also translates into about 10-20% more energy being delivered, on average. The round is more accurate at long range, than most shooters. Especially the self-proclaimed "long range shooters". Shoot a .223 and a .204 side-by-side, and you'll see what I'm talking about. If you're not interested in the round, that's fine, but your reasoning is flawed. Remember, it was YOU who asked for suggestions. I'm just trying to help. If you want a full-power rifle cartridge, you should have gone with a .308 lower. |
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As long range as possible... 6.5 Grendel! It is the only one I am aware of that can make it to a grand. I've even heard rumors of longer barrels and hotter hand loads going well past 1400 and still traveling supersonic. They can also put FMJs through some "bullet proof" barriers that can best a .308 shooting APs. Being able to buy ammo from Wolf is a big plus for affordable practice if you don't hand load, and if you do, .762x39 brass can be made into 6.5. The Grendel uses the same bolts as 7.62x39 so they're easy to get. 6.5 specific mags can now be had too. They are also easy on barrels due to the slower launch speeds.
Also, when I can find a bolt action 50BMG that has exactly the same trigger as my target AR which I am well practiced with, for only $1200-1400, I'd buy two! AR50s are nice, but @ $2500+, the pin on upper looks damn good. Pin on uppers have their merits. 
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I don't understand what you are asking for "long range". Do you want accuracy or power? In the previous posts about the .204 it seemed more like troll posts. If you know as much as you stated you do, then pick whichever caliber you are most comfortable shooting. Doesn't matter what caliber bullet or what weapon platform you use if you aren't comfortable with it.
Personally for long range with some oomph, I would go with a .308 simply because the bigger bullet carries more energy and increases the chance for a "kill shot", on the other hand there are other calibers that are better suited for "accuracy shots". 
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I'm interested. Tell me what you know about the 6.5 Grendel. What would be the best balance between speed and BC in this cartridge. Looking at two websites, Alexander Arms and 6mmAR I am comparing the 6.5 grendel and the 6AR (Grendel necked to 6mm). From those websites I get the Lapua 123 at 2600 with a BC of .547. I also get the 105 with a BC of .556 at 2750 in the 6mm version. Using this info, the 6mm version has an advantage. Not to mention lower cost and lower recoil.
Now, if you can run a higher BC bullet in the mag at enough velocity, the 6.5 would eventually overtake the 6mm. I don't know. I'm asking. There are also two improved versoins of the 6AR. Ultimately, in this case size and limited by magazine length, I suspect the 6mm will maintain an advantage. |
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