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Posted: 11/27/2006 5:22:05 PM EDT
| A friend on mine said he used a scope during basic. What types are being? Is it similar to the old colt scope? |
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Scopes? In boot camp? I went through Parris Island 8 years ago and never, never saw a scope. All the high speed, low drag crap was after in your ICS or when you hit the fleet. I can say with 99% certainty that recruits don't see scopes in the USMC. other branches may vary. |
go figure.|
Hmmm...it's a scary thought that recruits would be training with optics rather than learning how to effectively use iron sights - and then even scarier when they cannot qualify with iron sights. I took a 16" AR to the range this weekend with an Aimpoint Comp M2 and shot it with both the Comp M2 and with issue iron sights. I found that at 100 yards the groups were as good if not slightly better with iron sights than with the 4 MOA dot Aimpoint. The M2 is slightly faster in some cases for target acquisition, but at longer ranges the iron sights are, in my opinion, more precise. |
+1 |
WTF? When did they go through? We get cherries every few weeks, and they're all talking about carrying around smurf shooters with irons. No one has mentioned any dot. |
it was a few years back, probably two, seems like another lifetime ago. maybe i have basic and tech school mixed up? .ap |
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I want to basic training in 2002, and I was in the reserves from 2002-2005. I have never seen an aimpoint or any optic on any rifle owned by the US military, in person. In the last two years, I've seen a lot of them in pictures, but as I stated before, never saw one, was never issued one. I was in a 4,000 man infantry brigade and hardly anyone even had an M4. Those that did had a regular carrying handle like the rest of us. The only rifle I ever used in the Army was an M16A2. I'm only 23 and I feel like an old man now since the young bucks can't qualify with irons. |
Interservice rivalry is one thing, but joking about fellow servicemen dying is not cool. Therefore . . . . . . .   We used irons when I was in Basic. |
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Infantry OSUT, Ft. Benning 2001. Used M16A2's with iron sights the entire time, except for 1 range. It was a night fire, and earlier that day, we helped 'assemble' what I vaguely remember to be somewhere between 20-40 M16A4's (flattop with rail system), that appeared to be in NIB, unfired condition. They had some type of optic on them, along with a PAQ4-C. Either they were put together wrong, weren't adjusted worth a shit, etc., because myself and about half of our platoon couldn't see the PAQ marker on the target that night. I know it sounds like I have no idea what I'm talking about, but as anyone in the military knows, they really don't tell you half the shit you should know, and it was rush rush rush 24/7 when i was there. Furthermore, some of the soldiers in OSUT at the time I was there did carry M16A4's during the cycle, although they had covers on their rails and carry handles mounted. In my company it was all A2's though. |
Apparently you never once ran in formation or sang a running cadence. Hell death (yours, mine, ours) is part of at least 80% of all cadence I bet.... And back OT: in my 10 years in the Army (93-03) I was never once was officially issued an optical weapons sight other than an AN/PVS-4 with a 7.62 reticle for a M60. |
Amen! Airborne Rangers in the sky, all will jump, and some will die... |
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I am currently in the Georgia Army National Guard, coming close to ending a 20-year stint. I've had the chance to observe the current BCT course at Ft. Leonard Wood and I can tell you without a doubt that recruits do not use optics in BCT. What is your friends MOS by chance? I have heard of the M68 (Aimpoint) being trained in 11B10 school at Ft. Benning, but do not know for sure. |
You 48th BCT bastard! Were you over there 05-06? |
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OSUT at Benning, Jan 2002, 2/54 ITB. M16A4's with iron sights. We merely familiarized with the M68. Qualified 39/40 with irons. I missed the 50yd tgt, left side. Gotta love tunnel vision. Saw it at the last second and it fell down the instant I put my sights on it, right as my sear was about to break. Finished with 1 round in the chamber. Man, was I pissed at myself. When we familiarized, we shot at the 3D moving targets at about 150yds, I think. We played with the AN PEQ for a night fire exercise. We just showed up at a range during night time and stepped up to the firing line to a rifle that already had the crap on it. We didn't get to use them on our own rifles. However, they did teach us how to sight the AN PEQ in during the day using a NVG Monocular. |
Nope, but was there in 2004-2005. Don't worry though, the sun was just as nice then. We are planning a return trip probably in late 2007 / early 2008. See ya then, Air Assault! ;) |
Not quite, thankfully airman now destined for overseas regardless of AFSC, will be trained in combat arms. We should all be trained to be able to function with rifle on our back(.) Simple fact is that SF can't cover our behinds all the time, especially now since there mission has grown. Training to defend ourselves is about the best insurance policy I can think of.. I think that a shorter barrel length is ideal for the shooting that most AF guys would ever potentially see and allows more freedom of movement, and a reflex sight should be the standard bearing that in mind. |
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Semper Fi, Do or Die!!! I don't know but it's been said... Army wings are made of lead.... I don't know but I've been told... Marine Corps wings are made of Gold.. BTW.....There are Airborn Rangers in the Corps. The Marine Corps does send grunts to Ranger and Airborn school from time to time. They usually call it a vacation.  Had two in my company that went to Ranger school. They just couldn't get the brass to send them to jump school after that. I have met Marines that went to both.Allowing boots to qualify with optics would be the worst thing they could do. Batteries die, optics break. Enemy weapons aren't going to be tricked out. You need to be able to pickup and drive on. If you wanted it "easy" should have stayed out of the service. |
Well the problem is you're in the Cav. Become a man and join the straightlegs... 
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my friend is in BOLC/IOBC (i don't want the number is) at ft benning and he just had to qualify with the M68 no iron sights. |
It all depends on where your unit is on the food chain. Those of us in the 25th I.D. had M4's with M68 CCOs, Paq4's, and PVS14's in 1999. We also had "Para" M249s and M240B's with Elcans. And by the time in early 2000 that my unit was switching to Stykers, and about to roll over to the 2nd I.D., we were getting every latest and greatest gizmo that was out there. |
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Well the problem is you're in the Cav. Become a man and join the straightlegs... Know what holds up a chicken's ass? TWO LEGS!!! Bwahahaha AIRBORNE!!! HOOAAHH!!!
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LOL Airborne! |
You took the words right out of my mouth. |
500m ironsighted qual using non-combat firing positions makes more sense to you? Seriously, both services qualification methods are seriously lacking re: the modern battlefield. |
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I served active duty Army from Jan 1997 - Aug 2003. We had nothing but iron sights in basic. In 2000 I was in South Korea, and was issued an Aimpoint for my M4. That was the only optic I was ever issued for to mount on a 5.56. All other units I was assigned to used simple iron sights on their A2's and M4's. |
shortie machine guns would have been awesome. the M240B was a pia in the brads. i gave my m4 to the javelin gunner, all i had was the radio. |
IMHO the Marine method of rifle instruction is to instill and test the fundamentals of marksmanship. It is done once a year. If you were infantry, then there was a LOT more trigger time using team and squad formations with live fire "fire and maneuver". Nothing like rushing "green ivan's" popping up and down as you hit them. During those training ops we generally used 300yard BZO and no sling. BTW, nothing like someone f@cking up and laying a 6 round burst from a SAW into the ground 3 feet in front of you (never did find that f@cker). |
Oh, I'm not down on the instruction, just on the qualification. I've been through both 0311 and 11B schools, and the instruction is topnotch. It's just the qualification systems that I think are not quite right. Maybe we need a different qualification battery for combat arms folks, or something. I don't know, the way wars are fought now it's getting tougher to know who needs to know what. |
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