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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - XM177 Moderators (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/5/2017 9:29:23 PM EDT
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So who currently makes the best fake XM177 E1 / E2 moderator?
I've seen the one Brownells offers and wasn't impressed with the glossy deep black finish. I saw Tony's Customs lists one for sale that looks like the grenade ring is joined to it, and I saw Griffin Armament lists one as well that is three times the price of the others. And does anyone know of a currently produced 3.5" CAR-15 style moderator? |
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Definitely Brick's or John Thomas. I would be proud to have either on my weapon. This begs the question: What are the differences between Brick's and John Thomas' retro moderators? I'd love to see a side-by-side comparison between the top two reproduction moderators. |
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This begs the question: What are the differences between Brick's and John Thomas' retro moderators? I'd love to see a side-by-side comparison between the top two reproduction moderators. Here you go, side by side comparison photos of the JT moderator (top) and the Brick moderator (bottom) 
They are VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL, but I like the color of the Brick moderator a little better, as well as his slits. End views of both moderators; 
The Brick moderator is on the left, and the JT moderator is on the right. Personally, I think the end view of the Brick moderator is its singular advantage over the JT moderator because it looks more "real", and "finished". However, that being said, I own several examples of each, and am CERTAIN that they are the two best reproductions on the market. Thanks to both of these members for making these available to us. |
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i want to do a build with a real moderator I thought the same thing, However, ALL of the Vietnam moderators were UNMARKED, and if you want a real one it has to be marked with the makers information and a serial number. So, the JT and Brick moderators look MORE REAL (Vietnam-wise) than real ones. Besides, they BARELY work. |
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I used to think I did. Buuut...they don't really moderate that much, and you'd have to do all that NFA crap. Heck, I don't even use my 5.56 suppressor anymore. I'd just use a Brick or JT one and call it a day. That’s true, it moderate the 11,5 inch barrel to the noise level like a regular 20 inch m16 barrel but not more. |
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Griffin XM Linear Comp
Whoa. Checkout the video on that page of a fill auto XM177E2 firing. |
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Attached File I have one that's pinned after giving the barrel the 11.5 look without the stamp. I think it might of been done by HEATNBEAT if not BRICK.Attached File |
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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/123206/IMG-2803-161485.JPGI have one that's pinned after giving the barrel the 11.5 look without the stamp. I think it might of been done by HEATNBEAT if not BRICK.https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/123206/IMG-2802-161484.JPG I don't think that's Brick, since there's not a well-defined weld bead. Nice cabine though. |
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Kurt of KKF (RIP Kurt) used to make a slipover fake moderator designed to fit over a 14.5 (or 16" I can't remember) pencil barrel, that gave you the look of the XM177 moderator without losing barrel length. Kurt was great! Here is one that I made for my shooter XM. I used an original 16" carbine upper to get the reliability and accuracy of the 16" barrel, with the looks of the shorter barrel. Since I did not shorten the barrel, there is/was no need to change the gas port, OR to weld/pin the moderator onto the barrel. 
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Kurt of KKF (RIP Kurt) used to make a slipover fake moderator designed to fit over a 14.5 (or 16" I can't remember) pencil barrel, that gave you the look of the XM177 moderator without losing barrel length. Kurt was great! A decade plus ago Kurt made me a custom 3.5" 607 for a retro project. It came out really nice, I wish I still had that upper but I sold it years ago. |
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I don't think that's Brick, since there's not a well-defined weld bead. Nice cabine though. Quoted:
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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/123206/IMG-2803-161485.JPGI have one that's pinned after giving the barrel the 11.5 look without the stamp. I think it might of been done by HEATNBEAT if not BRICK.https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/123206/IMG-2802-161484.JPG I don't think that's Brick, since there's not a well-defined weld bead. Nice cabine though. |
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Here is one that I made for my shooter XM. I used an original 16" carbine upper to get the reliability and accuracy of the 16" barrel, with the looks of the shorter barrel. Since I did not shorten the barrel, there is/was no need to change the gas port, OR to weld/pin the moderator onto the barrel. http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/kkrad_photo/368aba099591610dc96c8f876cafac0b.jpg http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/kkrad_photo/c9824bfc684a25a6d4d871ffcf6ae084.jpg http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/kkrad_photo/243ba23ba3f23b886720fa1185a33917.jpg Hey, that looks nice. I've done those, but I've always had the muzzle behind the slots. lioking at your last pic, I guess you have a set screw on the outside somewhere? ETA: and did you single point those threads? |
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Hey, that looks nice. I've done those, but I've always had the muzzle behind the slots. lioking at your last pic, I guess you have a set screw on the outside somewhere? ETA: and did you single point those threads? Yes, they are single point threads. I threaded the whole length of the barrel end and then milled off the threads between the front and back threaded section (otherwise it would take WAY too long to unthread the moderator from the weapon). If I had the muzzle behind the slots, then the moderator would have to be longer, OR I would have to weld/pin the moderator onto the barrel to achieve the legal length. By doing it the way I did, I accomplished the shortest possible look (without shortening the barrel) that I could manage with the most accuracy & reliability. |
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Here is one that I made for my shooter XM. I used an original 16" carbine upper to get the reliability and accuracy of the 16" barrel, with the looks of the shorter barrel. Since I did not shorten the barrel, there is/was no need to change the gas port, OR to weld/pin the moderator onto the barrel. http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/kkrad_photo/368aba099591610dc96c8f876cafac0b.jpg http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/kkrad_photo/c9824bfc684a25a6d4d871ffcf6ae084.jpg http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/kkrad_photo/243ba23ba3f23b886720fa1185a33917.jpg That's pretty awesome! |
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Link? I was interested in the Griffin comp/moderator as well. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/703600_Griffin_Armament_XM_Compensator_failure_.html&page=1 There were at least two threads on the failures with pics, this was the only one I could find and the pics are missing. |
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Other than the color of brownells moderator clone appearing to be wrong, how do they compare to the JT and brick clone? The Brownell's moderators lack the important (as far as realism) bead of weld around the base of the moderator. AFAIK, only the Brick & JT moderators duplicate that aspect of the real moderators. |
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Innovative Industries NFA moderator....
https://www.innovativeindustriesllc.com/products/xm177-moderator Innovative Industries fake moderator.... https://www.innovativeindustriesllc.com/products/xm177-moderator-non-functioning A short write up of the decibel reduction of a real moderator... http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2247 I am mostly convinced the moderator was a band aid to give the short 10" barrels enough gas pressure to cycle. |
I saw the previous post about the moderators that Kurt @KKF had produced. I wanted to post a pic of the one he made for me right before he passed away. I never met him in person but I got to know him over the phone pretty well. I sent him a barrel from J&T Dist. 11.5 pencil profile and Kurt perm attached his custom made moderator to my barrel. OAL with the pinned moderator is 16-1/8" The slots are narrow and longer but i am ok with it. Its a good shooter!
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/703600_Griffin_Armament_XM_Compensator_failure_.html&page=1 There were at least two threads on the failures with pics, this was the only one I could find and the pics are missing. Wish there was a cutaway pic of one or something similar. I'd like to try to make one. Guess you could just make it like a KX-3 on the inside... |
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Wish there was a cutaway pic of one or something similar. I'd like to try to make one. Guess you could just make it like a KX-3 on the inside... Looks pretty much like Brick's moderator only hollow behind the cone with the FH slots. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/682264_Griffin_Armament_XM_Linear_Comp.html http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.access6.html#xm ETA: take the sectioned pic of the moderator Mr. Indy posted above and leave out the baffles |
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Here you go, side by side comparison photos of the JT moderator (top) and the Brick moderator (bottom) http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/kkrad_photo/946ecd76cb14516939916edfa466a6c3.jpg They are VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL, but I like the color of the Brick moderator a little better, as well as his slits. End views of both moderators; http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/kkrad_photo/5ed205bf31d970be45e478d1e9dddc2c.jpg The Brick moderator is on the left, and the JT moderator is on the right. Personally, I think the end view of the Brick moderator is its singular advantage over the JT moderator because it looks more "real", and "finished". However, that being said, I own several examples of each, and am CERTAIN that they are the two best reproductions on the market. Thanks to both of these members for making these available to us. Quoted:
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This begs the question: What are the differences between Brick's and John Thomas' retro moderators? I'd love to see a side-by-side comparison between the top two reproduction moderators. Here you go, side by side comparison photos of the JT moderator (top) and the Brick moderator (bottom) http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/kkrad_photo/946ecd76cb14516939916edfa466a6c3.jpg They are VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL, but I like the color of the Brick moderator a little better, as well as his slits. End views of both moderators; http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/kkrad_photo/5ed205bf31d970be45e478d1e9dddc2c.jpg The Brick moderator is on the left, and the JT moderator is on the right. Personally, I think the end view of the Brick moderator is its singular advantage over the JT moderator because it looks more "real", and "finished". However, that being said, I own several examples of each, and am CERTAIN that they are the two best reproductions on the market. Thanks to both of these members for making these available to us. If I remember right JT's moderator is the same weight as a real one that's why its thicker. but I could be wrong .......... |
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If I remember right JT's moderator is the same weight as a real one that's why its thicker. but I could be wrong .......... The JT and the Brick moderators are SOLID, so there is no way that either would be the same weight as an original. My guess is that they are both 25-50% heavier than a real one (which is NOT solid). |
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Looks pretty much like Brick's moderator only hollow behind the cone with the FH slots. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/682264_Griffin_Armament_XM_Linear_Comp.html http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.access6.html#xm ETA: take the sectioned pic of the moderator Mr. Indy posted above and leave out the baffles Thanks! That's exactly what I wanted to know. Trying to figure out the best way to make one now...I have the tools, but I'm not so good at making stuff... ETA: I guess there will have to be another weld, to get it hollow inside. |
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Looks pretty much like Brick's moderator only hollow behind the cone with the FH slots. ETA: take the sectioned pic of the moderator Mr. Indy posted above and leave out the baffles I thought about making one like that, BUT, even if it would not qualify as a SUPRESSOR by decible reduction standards, an overzelous (yeah there are a FEW) BATFE agent could arrest you for CONSPIRACY (ie "trying") to manufacture a suppressor. I think the hollow chamber might be enough to get you in trouble with the right alphabet agent, |
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I personally think that the "IDEAL" fake moderator would be made from two pieces, with an inner core and outer body, but would lack the holes in the core, thereby negating any function as a noise-suppressor. The core and body would be welded together, just like a real one, so the moderator couldn't be disassembled and made functional.
It would certainly be a lot of work to make one like this, and it would be more expensive as a result, but it would be as close as possible to the "real deal". The weight of this fake moderator would be almost identical to a real one, so no extra mass hanging off the end of your barrel. The best part would simply be the knowledge of its sophisticated inner design; that would just give ya the warm fuzzies! |
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I personally think that the "IDEAL" fake moderator would be made from two pieces, with an inner core and outer body, but would lack the holes in the core, thereby negating any function as a noise-suppressor. The core and body would be welded together, just like a real one, so the moderator couldn't be disassembled and made functional. It would certainly be a lot of work to make one like this, and it would be more expensive as a result, but it would be as close as possible to the "real deal". The weight of this fake moderator would be almost identical to a real one, so no extra mass hanging off the end of your barrel. The best part would simply be the knowledge of its sophisticated inner design; that would just give ya the warm fuzzies! You sir are a GENIUS. I don't know why I didn't think about it. A SOLID core of aluminum WELDED into the cavity would negate the posibility of conspiricy to manufacture a supressor, AND it would reduce the weight considerably. As a matter of fact, a solid aluminum core would probably be about the same weight as a baffeled steel core. Now to the |
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You sir are a GENIUS. I don't know why I didn't think about it. A SOLID core of aluminum WELDED into the cavity would negate the posibility of conspiricy to manufacture a supressor, AND it would reduce the weight considerably. As a matter of fact, a solid aluminum core would probably be about the same weight as a baffeled steel core. Now to the Quoted:
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I personally think that the "IDEAL" fake moderator would be made from two pieces, with an inner core and outer body, but would lack the holes in the core, thereby negating any function as a noise-suppressor. The core and body would be welded together, just like a real one, so the moderator couldn't be disassembled and made functional. It would certainly be a lot of work to make one like this, and it would be more expensive as a result, but it would be as close as possible to the "real deal". The weight of this fake moderator would be almost identical to a real one, so no extra mass hanging off the end of your barrel. The best part would simply be the knowledge of its sophisticated inner design; that would just give ya the warm fuzzies! You sir are a GENIUS. I don't know why I didn't think about it. A SOLID core of aluminum WELDED into the cavity would negate the posibility of conspiricy to manufacture a supressor, AND it would reduce the weight considerably. As a matter of fact, a solid aluminum core would probably be about the same weight as a baffeled steel core. Now to the But......how are you going to weld aluminum to steel? The couple 3.5" 607 dummies that I have machined were two piece. The internal core had the barrel threads on it, a stepped diameter that the rear of the outer sleeve located on, and a "thin walled" tube/front se tion that located into a pocket that was machined into the backside of the front wall of the outer sleeve, that was also thin walled. The weld bead held it all together. Might be able to dig a pic up later. Attached File Attached File |
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But......how are you going to weld aluminum to steel? The couple 3.5" 607 dummies that I have machined were two piece. The internal core had the barrel threads on it, a stepped diameter that the rear of the outer sleeve located on, and a "thin walled" tube/front se tion that located into a pocket that was machined into the backside of the front wall of the outer sleeve, that was also thin walled. The weld bead held it all together. Might be able to dig a pic up later. I will weld the base (steel) to the outer tube (also steel) just like the originals. Instead of baffles I will use a solid bar of aluminum (drilled properly of course) to fill the void in the outer tube so that there is NO CHANCE of it being construed as a silencer. Brick and JT moderators weigh about 10.6 ounces, and I should be able to get it down to about 8 or 9 ounces. That doesn't sound like much, but it IS a 15-25% reduction in weight. |
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I thought about making one like that, BUT, even if it would not qualify as a SUPRESSOR by decible reduction standards, an overzealous (yeah there are a FEW) BATFE agent could arrest you for CONSPIRACY (ie "trying") to manufacture a suppressor. I think the hollow chamber might be enough to get you in trouble with the right alphabet agent, Yes sir, indeed. The recent engraved sear pin nonsense for instance. Even though at least two companies manufacture rifles with faux pin engravings. 
Which makes me wonder how Griffin is making their moderator using a hollow body? Especially in light of the fact Brick had previously asked the alphabet boys if he could use this manner of construction. |
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Yes sir, indeed. The recent engraved sear pin nonsense for instance. Even though at least two companies manufacture rifles with faux pin engravings.
Which makes me wonder how Griffin is making their moderator using a hollow body? Especially in light of the fact Brick had previously asked the alphabet boys if he could use this manner of construction. Yeah, but did Brick call it a LINEAR COMPENSATOR, lol |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - XM177 Moderators (Page 1 of 2)
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