AR Sponsor
Posted: 11/1/2011 5:23:03 AM EDT
|
Hi all, I think this DD would work if I had it cut down correct? https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/14-5-5-56mm-lightweight-carbine-chf-barrel-w-fsb.html I had a Bushmaster lightweight on back order with them for 3 months. They just got some in but my credit card they had on the order had expired in the interim. Wouldnt you know they never even called me... just moved down the list and sold out. Way to go bushmaster customer service! |
|
I used one of these to build mine.
http://jtdistributing.net/store/product1255.html The only thing I didn't like is they use straight pins instead of tappered 
So I pulled them tapped it and installed tappered ones. No issues with it other than the pins, shoots great 
|
|
I ordered a pair of A1 sight assemblies, a pair of teardrop forward assists, a buttstock cleaning kit, a carbine stock tool, an armorer's wrench, an M16 poster, and some handguard caps, etc. The next day I emailed them and wanted to change the poster to an M4 poster.
Two weeks later they sent me the carbine stock tool and m16 poster. A month after that they sent an ALICE cleaning kit. A month after that they sent me two rear sight assys. A day later I got one forward assist. I finally emailed them and canceled my order. I was getting charged shipping on each item. And getting the wrong item. I like using the DoubleStar A1 bbls from Brownells. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
CS from Bushmaster was very poor when I bought my SL barrel in late '08.
I've recently had excellent luck with Doublestar's (aka J&T Distributing) barrel. I bought a CL 14.5" lightweight for an Izzy clone. Waiting on a stamp to finish it; but the upper shoots fine from my XM177E2 lower. I got mine direct from J&T because Brownell's has long periods of backorder with them. If I were doing a new XM177E2 today I'd buy the 11.5" barrel from them and skip the cost, shipping and waiting of having a 16" cut down. Of course, I am also OK with the idiocy that is NFA. RRiggs is correct, they use straight pins. I'm going to do what he did before too long and put in taper pins. |
| A factory 10.5 or 11.5 barrel has got the right profile –– the slight widening below the threads,just like on the nose of a 20" A1 barrel. Sometimes you can get Colt short barrels on GB –– they've kept the short barrels in production for LE guns. Of course, sometimes you can pay a steep price, and like the guys say, build an SBR and you get to experience the joys of NFA. |
|
I used the same barrel as RRiggs on my 651 build. I did the same thing as he did, replaced the straight pins with taper pins. It's shot pretty good so far. I'm thinking about getting another for my XM build. I was planning on getting a Bushmaster superlight, but after your experience with them, I'm going to rethink it. Plus I don't feel like waiting 3+ months....
651 build :
|
| If you want a BM barrel might I suggest contacting PK Firearms. BM has always been quick and straight forward with me personally but once they started charging tax I started using PK for my BM barrel needs. Works out about the same coins as a rule. Haven't needed anything in 6 months though. I also have three J&T LW carbines two have taper pins in FSB and the last one purchased had straight pins. Cost cutting in my opinion. The J&T's have been great shooters but BM costs less for CMV steel. |
|
Quoted:
and like the guys say, build an SBR and you get to experience the joys of NFA. consider paying the 200$ for th stamp... then you can just use a 10.5" barrel with a cheap old a1 f/h on it. This avoids the cost of custom pinning welding / jumping through hoops to make it 16" oal. But that wouldnt be a 177 now would it... |
| Could always go with a DD 12.5" https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/12-5-inch-chf-barrels/12-5-5-56mm-lightweight-carbine-chf-barrel-w-fsb.html Pretty sure that should be long enough to make a 16" when attaching a fake moderator. |
|
So the J&T 11.5" lightweight barrel would be the correct profile for an XM177E2/629/639 build? Including the little flare at the end of the barrel by the muzzle threads? Hmm, and that wouldn't interfere with the grenade ring/collar found on XM builds?
Reason I ask is I have a screwed up Bushmaster barrel on my "clone" upper and I would like to replace it with one that...isn't screwed up  (It is an NFA upper for my SBR, so there's no legal barrel length issues or anything like that)
If it would be the correct profile, I'll have to save up some more pennies... Thanks! |
|
Quoted:
How is it screwed up? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I have to max windage on the rear sight in order for it to hit paper at 50 yards. The barrel is a Bushy superlight, cut down to 11.5", circa early 2000s (probably 2002 or 2003 or so). I sent it off to Adco to have the front sight base recentered (it looks canted to me) but it didn't change a thing. I asked them what they did, and I got the email equivalent of a shrug. So...either they didn't do anything, or the barrel is bent. Either way...I'd really like to not have to max windage to use it. I only noticed it recently because I didn't have an SBR lower to mate the upper to until this year
This was in several different uppers btw - not just the one I bought it with. Rebarreling it had zero effect across 3 different M16A1 uppers. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is it screwed up? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I have to max windage on the rear sight in order for it to hit paper at 50 yards. The barrel is a Bushy superlight, cut down to 11.5", circa early 2000s (probably 2002 or 2003 or so). I sent it off to Adco to have the front sight base recentered (it looks canted to me) but it didn't change a thing. I asked them what they did, and I got the email equivalent of a shrug. So...either they didn't do anything, or the barrel is bent. Either way...I'd really like to not have to max windage to use it. I only noticed it recently because I didn't have an SBR lower to mate the upper to until this year
This was in several different uppers btw - not just the one I bought it with. Rebarreling it had zero effect across 3 different M16A1 uppers. you need to shim the barrel index pin. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is it screwed up? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I have to max windage on the rear sight in order for it to hit paper at 50 yards. The barrel is a Bushy superlight, cut down to 11.5", circa early 2000s (probably 2002 or 2003 or so). I sent it off to Adco to have the front sight base recentered (it looks canted to me) but it didn't change a thing. I asked them what they did, and I got the email equivalent of a shrug. So...either they didn't do anything, or the barrel is bent. Either way...I'd really like to not have to max windage to use it. I only noticed it recently because I didn't have an SBR lower to mate the upper to until this year
This was in several different uppers btw - not just the one I bought it with. Rebarreling it had zero effect across 3 different M16A1 uppers. You can compensate some for windage by the way you hold the parts while torquing down the barrel nut. If you hold the upper: the barrel will follow the nut. This will result in the point of impact going to the right on the target If you hold the barrel: the upper will follow the nut. This will result in the point of impact going left on the target. Other variables: Warping in the upper. I have seen the carry handle angle of to one side or the other The amount of cant on the installation of the FSB. In my experience the FSB needs to be about a half degree to the 1 o'clock for proper windage. When the FSB is mounted on the barrel top dead center with the locating pin they seem to shoot a bit to the right at 25 yards. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is it screwed up? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I have to max windage on the rear sight in order for it to hit paper at 50 yards. The barrel is a Bushy superlight, cut down to 11.5", circa early 2000s (probably 2002 or 2003 or so). I sent it off to Adco to have the front sight base recentered (it looks canted to me) but it didn't change a thing. I asked them what they did, and I got the email equivalent of a shrug. So...either they didn't do anything, or the barrel is bent. Either way...I'd really like to not have to max windage to use it. I only noticed it recently because I didn't have an SBR lower to mate the upper to until this year
This was in several different uppers btw - not just the one I bought it with. Rebarreling it had zero effect across 3 different M16A1 uppers. You can compensate some for windage by the way you hold the parts while torquing down the barrel nut. If you hold the upper: the barrel will follow the nut. This will result in the point of impact going to the right on the target If you hold the barrel: the upper will follow the nut. This will result in the point of impact going left on the target. Other variables: Warping in the upper. I have seen the carry handle angle of to one side or the other The amount of cant on the installation of the FSB. In my experience the FSB needs to be about a half degree to the 1 o'clock for proper windage. When the FSB is mounted on the barrel top dead center with the locating pin they seem to shoot a bit to the right at 25 yards. I tried shimming it, but it didn't work out...but, I never tried holding/rotating the barrel to the right when torquing the barrel nut. Like I said I tried it in 3 different surplus uppers, and they each had to be just about maxxed to center on paper at 25 yards. Can't hurt to try it again... I'll carve up an old soda can into some shims and see if I can't keep it to the right next time. mike_nds and jhud, thanks both! In the mean time though, back to the original question - is the J&T 11.5" the correct profile?
Even if my problem child can be sorted out by just screwing with the barrel's rotation when torquing it down, I'm looking at building another clone-type upper as well for another project...can never have too many! |
|
Their 14.5" is the correct profile. The pictures of their 11.5" _LOOK_ correct.
If you order from J&T don't forget things like the front sight post parts and sling swivel. ETA: Just for gits and shiggles I measured the barrel lengths with my short uppers. Using the muzzle to bolt-face method I get: 11 23/32" for the Bushmaster Superlight shortened by 45Bravo. 14 5/8" for the J&T 14.5" Chrome Lined Lightweight. I am curious what the measured length of a Colt 11.5" barrel is now. |
|
Awesome.
I have a Colt 733 upper I can measure out, but a) it's gov't profile not A1, and b) I don't want to remove the birdcage
But yeah, it is an interesting question. I'll see if I can get a measurement. Should be easy enough to factor for the A2 hider length. |
|
Quoted:
Awesome. I have a Colt 733 upper I can measure out, but a) it's gov't profile not A1, and b) I don't want to remove the birdcage
But yeah, it is an interesting question. I'll see if I can get a measurement. Should be easy enough to factor for the A2 hider length. Do the mouth of the flash hider to bolt face, then measure from the mouth to the muzzle. Subtract. I've done that before, but since I didn't have a crush washer on my SBR uppers, I could remove the hiders. |
|
Crunched up a can into a reasonable shim, stuck it on the left side of the index pin (so it would push it to the right) and there was zero play when the barrel was slid into the receiver. Previously there was a tiny bit of wiggle. I didn't think the wiggle was that much...but maybe I was wrong?
Anyway - snugged back up and ready to hit the range tomorrow. I'll see if that fixes it. Sorry I haven't gotten back about the barrel measurements yet - I discovered I don't have anything to measure with I'll have to hit up Home Depot or Menards or somewhere for a small wood dowel. I'll just drop that down the bore, mark, measure, and subtract.
|
|
I have had the same issue with a bushy superlite 16". Probably just the way I torqued it. There was a bit of play between the indexing pin and the receiver. I thought the receiver was to blame. Will check out my other bushies for comparison, and shim them all if needed.
Isn't it great when a thread comes along and validates an issue you got, and gives you a fix too?  Retro Forum, win!
|
|
Quoted:
I have had the same issue with a bushy superlite 16". Probably just the way I torqued it. There was a bit of play between the indexing pin and the receiver. I thought the receiver was to blame. Will check out my other bushies for comparison, and shim them all if needed. Isn't it great when a thread comes along and validates an issue you got, and gives you a fix too? Retro Forum, win!
 That's great How old is your barrel, if you don't mind the question?
Mine dates back to at least 2002. Someone mentioned a batch of Bushy barrels that were mounted off-center, so I don't know if this falls in that range or what. I'll find out hopefully this week if the shim I stuck in had any effect. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have had the same issue with a bushy superlite 16". Probably just the way I torqued it. There was a bit of play between the indexing pin and the receiver. I thought the receiver was to blame. Will check out my other bushies for comparison, and shim them all if needed. Isn't it great when a thread comes along and validates an issue you got, and gives you a fix too? Retro Forum, win!
That's great How old is your barrel, if you don't mind the question?
Mine dates back to at least 2002. Someone mentioned a batch of Bushy barrels that were mounted off-center, so I don't know if this falls in that range or what. I'll find out hopefully this week if the shim I stuck in had any effect. All of my bushy lightweights were ordered and shipped in spring of 2006. I have 3, and have only really finished a build with one of them, and I noticed the windage issue at the range. Like I said, during assembly I noticed the side to side play and thought at the time that the receiver was at fault. Will check the other barrels with other receivers. Might take a while to check. |
|
Well, shimming it did have an effect, but not a great one...it's no longer maxxed out, but it's still a good 4-5 clicks off center. Better, I'll take it. It's also entirely possible my sight picture may not be the best and that's introducing some error, too. One of these days I need to do one of those laser boresight things
I got the measurements of the 733 barrel I have here, also - my non-scientific method was to drop a rod in and masking tape around where it exits, then using a micrometer with a depth thingie on it, measure from the rim of the muzzle in the flash hider to the end of the hider. It is pretty much right on the nose at 11.5"... |
AR Sponsor