AR Sponsor
Posted: 6/22/2013 7:39:57 AM EDT
|
Ok I need some help with a good hunting bullet for my .223. I want to go with a larger one like a 60-77 gr. I do not plan on doing any reloading..for right now. Is there a specific type of box you guys like to get? Mainly hunting Coyote. I would like something that is a good match grade quality.
The reason why I'm asking is that I bought a bunch of Black Hills Sierra MatchKing 77gr. stuff and guys on here don't recommend it for hunting?? I want accuracy and stopping power. |
|
It's probably not the best meat-getting round, but if you sink a SMK into the shoulder of a diablo dog- it's game over. If you're hunting for hides, it shouldn't ruin it either since the HP of the SMK isn't designed to expand. It's to give it a better BC.
I've dumped coyotes with XM193 in a straight shoulder shot. When it hits the bone, it gets the killing done. But since it's not a SP or HP or BT, I could only see a bit of blood at the entrance and never identified an exit. Obviously YMMV. Sly Conversely, I've shot deer in the neck with 55gr Hornady SP and the wound was large enough to fit my fist through. This is due to the expansion of the SP, but also hitting bone is always going to leave a mark. |
|
62gr fusion, 64gr gold dot.
Any of the TSX loads The smk isn't reccomended for hunting because it fragments not expands. It will be fine for coyotes though. But a soft point, bonded soft point, or solid copper are the best performers. Any of the loads on the best self defense loads list would be the best hunting loads too |
| I have killed a couple dozen deer with SMKs. They dont always penetrate as deep as I would like, but on a broad side shot through the ribs they always exit. Hitting a leg bone or the spine may stop them from exiting. For Coyotes they would be fine, unless you are shooting at 400+ yards I would prefer a lighter bullet for coyotes. I have threads in the archive showing the damage 69 gr SMK do to deer and several other 223 bullets. Unfortunately the picture links were all broken and they do not show up any more. I can link you to some pics if you would like. 69 and 77 gr SMK and 75 gr TAP OTM work pretty well. |
|
Quoted:
62gr fusion, 64gr gold dot. Any of the TSX loads The smk isn't reccomended for hunting because it fragments not expands. It will be fine for coyotes though. But a soft point, bonded soft point, or solid copper are the best performers. Any of the loads on the best self defense loads list would be the best hunting loads too I would NOT use bonded bullets for coyotes, there is not enough tissue there to make the bullet work like it should. The bullet will be gone before it knows it hit anything. |
|
I guess what I'm having a hard time with is sacrificing long range accuracy. Thats why I just wanted to stock up on the black hills 77gr. SMK cause I from what I hear thats a pretty accurate bullet at the longer distances. So knock down power is important...but I would rather have better accuracy. I want a tack driver!
By the way i'm shooting a 18" noveske with a 1:7 twist if that helps. Do most of you guys reload or are you just buying factory ammo? |
| Ive shot alot of coyotes with the so called bonded fusion bullet, 60 grain nosler partition, Mk 318, and recently 64 grain bonded solid base. I actually prefer the two bonded bullets to BTHP's which dont do much past 150 yards. Mk318 does good job but as oyu all know is not too accurate. Poly tip bullets at least at 223 velocity take awhile to expand oddly enough. Soft points seem to work faster, icluding the Fusion. For deer I would take a neck shot if you can. |
| 36grvarmint grenade up to the 60gr v-max. Made for this and very accurate and the damage needs to be seen to appreciate. The bullets were made for this action and in my opinion are best for the job. I use TSX on hogs and slightly larger stuff. Last used a 55gr Hornady v-max moly coat on a bobcat at 63 yards, blew him up like a balloon. No exit. |
|
Quoted:
I guess what I'm having a hard time with is sacrificing long range accuracy. Thats why I just wanted to stock up on the black hills 77gr. SMK cause I from what I hear thats a pretty accurate bullet at the longer distances. So knock down power is important...but I would rather have better accuracy. I want a tack driver! By the way i'm shooting a 18" noveske with a 1:7 twist if that helps. Do most of you guys reload or are you just buying factory ammo? What do you consider long range? |
|
Quoted:
Ive shot alot of coyotes with the so called bonded fusion bullet, 60 grain nosler partition, Mk 318, and recently 64 grain bonded solid base. I actually prefer the two bonded bullets to BTHP's which dont do much past 150 yards. Mk318 does good job but as oyu all know is not too accurate. Poly tip bullets at least at 223 velocity take awhile to expand oddly enough. Soft points seem to work faster, icluding the Fusion. For deer I would take a neck shot if you can. your experience with BTHP doesnt match my own. I have found 55 gr VMAX at distances past 250 yards mushroom up and dont fragment |
|
MTN,
I am shooting pretty low velocity 75 grain BTHP, 2700 fps from 20 inch barrel moly coated Hornady ammo and about 2,800 fps reloads. They seem to quit fragmenting past 150 yards. My poly tip have been 55 grain noslers and they are slow to open up compared to a 55-60 grain soft point. Sounds like I should try the V max. I have shot around 20 coyotes with the Fusion. A bit over 2900 fps. Good performance still at 200 yards. Ive been disapointed in the nosler ballistic tip for varmits. A freind was shooting rock chucks w me and he was using 60 grain hornady sp at about 3000 fps from a Ruger bolt gun and I had 55 grain BT at over 3700 fps from 22-250 improved. He was blowing his rockchucks in half at 150 yards and my rifle would put a large hole in them but not tear them in two! Going away on coyotes they have only penetrated 5-6 inches. Certainly kills them just not dramatic. I have had better results (DRT) with old Winchester 55 grain soft points out to 340 yards longest shot in last 12 months). Most of my 223 work has been at night from 90-150 yards with occasional one 20 yards or 200 yards. |
| Most of my experience is shooting deer with the OTM style bullets, though I have shot a few coyotes and hogs with them. I am not sure what the bullets are doing exactly but I get large exit wounds on rib shots out to 300 + yards. Possibly bullet is only tumbling, a lot of the deer are yearlings so while small still typically larger than coyotes, which could make the difference. |
|
Most of the coyotes I've shot with my SPR Mk12 mod 0 (18" 1:7 twist barrel) have been with Hornady 55gr V-Max (55gr FPD, 55gr V-Max, 55gr Z-Max). They work very well and are accurate to about a 1.5" 10-shot group at 100yd. They typically make a small entrance hole with no exit. Most ranges I've shot coyotes at have been inside of 200yd though, so not long range. I did shoot one last year from 160yd with a hand-loaded 77gr SMK, which punched right through the chest, leaving a 22 cal hole going in and going out. However, it dropped the animal right there--lights out. I would certainly not hesitate using a 77gr SMK for shooting coyotes, but if I had to choose, I'd go with a 55gr V-Max.
Picture: 
|
|
All good info guys!
I usually shoot 15-25 coyotes a year with my 5.56. 40-55gr tipped varmint loads are very accurate and drop the dogs dead in their tracks. Most of the yotes I have shot with otm/bthp have punched 22 cal holes in them, they die but usually 20+ yards from where they are shot. Surprisingly, one of the most devistating rounds I have used on yotes is the TSX. As stated earlier by someone else, I would have figured that a yote would not have the tissue resistance to cause the TSX to expand. NOT THE CASE. Due to it's rapid expansion and large expansion it blows HUGE holes in dogs. I have had several coyotes leave shoulders and organs in senderos around South Tx. P |
| Weird that I have had the exact opposite experience, the yotes I have shot with TSX ran a long way and had small exits. The deer I shoot with TSX have an ok sized hole through them, but way smaller than other bullets. They do penetrate like lasers. SMK's for me leave dramatic wounds. |
|
Quoted:
Weird that I have had the exact opposite experience, the yotes I have shot with TSX ran a long way and had small exits. The deer I shoot with TSX have an ok sized hole through them, but way smaller than other bullets. They do penetrate like lasers. SMK's for me leave dramatic wounds. This brings up an interesting point that I have heard the experts refer to often. CONSISTANCY. Through our limited, tens to hundreds verses thousands to ten thousands, experiences with these different bullets we have very different conclusions of what to expect. And from our experiences we 'think' we have enough info to make a good decision. My rule of thumb is go with a bullet that is designed for the purpose. When I hunt big game I use the TSX and when I hunt coyotes I use a tipped varmint bullet. Good discussion guys. Less experienced shooters can gain a lot of perspective through a conversation like this  .
P |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Weird that I have had the exact opposite experience, the yotes I have shot with TSX ran a long way and had small exits. The deer I shoot with TSX have an ok sized hole through them, but way smaller than other bullets. They do penetrate like lasers. SMK's for me leave dramatic wounds. This brings up an interesting point that I have heard the experts refer to often. CONSISTANCY. Through our limited, tens to hundreds verses thousands to ten thousands, experiences with these different bullets we have very different conclusions of what to expect. And from our experiences we 'think' we have enough info to make a good decision. My rule of thumb is go with a bullet that is designed for the purpose. When I hunt big game I use the TSX and when I hunt coyotes I use a tipped varmint bullet. Good discussion guys. Less experienced shooters can gain a lot of perspective through a conversation like this .
P Or you could just confuse the sh*t out of a newb like myself! Haha Now I don't know what I want! I guess I'll just go with the SMK's until I have a bad experience with them and want to change. 
|
|
Msummer,
The SMK will certainly kill coyotes, as will M193 and M855. I shoot upwards of 60 a year, mostly in winter and mostly at night. Just be warned that the 75 and 77 grain will quit fragmenting at about 150 yards, at least they do in my experience. As others here have said, that might mean they run off 20 yards or so. More like 50 yds in my experience, and often take a second shot to be humane or in my case, keep them on my property. If you can find it and afford it I would vote for the 75 grain Hornady T2 which is quite a bit faster than other brands and can stabilize in 1-9 barrels. (About 2850 fps from a 20 inch). that will give you an extra 50 yards fragmentation range at least over the std velocity Hornady I have been using. Once you get some experience w an electronic game caller you may be surprised how close you can call them it. Will not matter much then what you are shooting. If you ever move up into deer size critters the ones I would use and have used from least "hard" to hardest would be; 62 Fusion (still OK), 62 Mk318, 60 Nosler partition, 75 Swift, 64 Nosler Solid base, 55-62 Trophy Bonded, 55-70 Barnes. I would use any of them for deer, and have either used or seen most of them used. (Not the Swift or Tipped TSX yet). Alot of good premium bullets there. One reason I have kept with the fairly boring Hornady 75 grain BTHP is that it is accurate, I have a bunch of it, and my rifle is sighted in for it. Fusion just happens to overlap almost perfectly so Ive been using it lately. It is a bit more effective. A good zero is worth alot. They are not that big of a target. |
| 62 Grain Federal Fusion is by far the best hunting round I have ever used. Its accurate, and is bonded. I like it so much I use it as a personal defense round as well. If you can find some use it. I have shot Coyote with this ammo. It will expand on impact with the Coyote. I seen a few comments on here that it will not. |
| I've used the 63 Gr SEI SP out to 177 yards- =dead yotes .223" hole in about quarter sized out no matter the angle! I've also used the 69gr SMK to just over 200 yards it was .223" in and some times .223" going out others maybe a 1-1.5" hole again all dead yotes! |
|
Quoted:
62 Grain Federal Fusion is by far the best hunting round I have ever used. Its accurate, and is bonded. I like it so much I use it as a personal defense round as well. If you can find some use it. I have shot Coyote with this ammo. It will expand on impact with the Coyote. I seen a few comments on here that it will not. I speculated it would not, I should not have, I have not shot this bullet at all |
|
Quoted:
Weird that I have had the exact opposite experience, the yotes I have shot with TSX ran a long way and had small exits. The deer I shoot with TSX have an ok sized hole through them, but way smaller than other bullets. They do penetrate like lasers. SMK's for me leave dramatic wounds. I use 70 gr TSX on deer and it looks like a freaking hand grenade went off, I could put my fist through the entry wound and the exit was only a little smaller. I've never seen that kind of damage, even from 300 mags. I've shot 1 deer with MK262 at 142 yards, it was a quartering shot and she had ice pick entry and exit wounds, however the bullet was in full yaw in mid chest and shredded both lungs and the aorta. She ran about 40 yards with a tremendous blood trail; almost like if you filled up 2 5 gallon buckets with blood and tried to run through the woods with them. |
|
Quoted:
Msummer, The SMK will certainly kill coyotes, as will M193 and M855. I shoot upwards of 60 a year, mostly in winter and mostly at night. Just be warned that the 75 and 77 grain will quit fragmenting at about 150 yards, at least they do in my experience. As others here have said, that might mean they run off 20 yards or so. More like 50 yds in my experience, and often take a second shot to be humane or in my case, keep them on my property. If you can find it and afford it I would vote for the 75 grain Hornady T2 which is quite a bit faster than other brands and can stabilize in 1-9 barrels. (About 2850 fps from a 20 inch). that will give you an extra 50 yards fragmentation range at least over the std velocity Hornady I have been using. Once you get some experience w an electronic game caller you may be surprised how close you can call them it. Will not matter much then what you are shooting. If you ever move up into deer size critters the ones I would use and have used from least "hard" to hardest would be; 62 Fusion (still OK), 62 Mk318, 60 Nosler partition, 75 Swift, 64 Nosler Solid base, 55-62 Trophy Bonded, 55-70 Barnes. I would use any of them for deer, and have either used or seen most of them used. (Not the Swift or Tipped TSX yet). Alot of good premium bullets there. One reason I have kept with the fairly boring Hornady 75 grain BTHP is that it is accurate, I have a bunch of it, and my rifle is sighted in for it. Fusion just happens to overlap almost perfectly so Ive been using it lately. It is a bit more effective. A good zero is worth alot. They are not that big of a target. Thanks for your input. I actually have some of the Hornady 75gr. BTHP already. I've bought a number of different rounds that I want to try out this Sunday. I'll be checking to see what my gun likes the most. I'm shooting a 18 Noveske with a 1:7 twist and from what I've heard from other folks is that my barrell will like the heavy stuff. I'll make sure to let you guys know what it likes. |
|
I know you stated you wanted a heavier bullet, but I can recommend the Winchester 55 gr Ballistic Silvertip.
I killed 6 coyotes with it just a few weeks ago, and a turkey too. This factory ammo has proven to be very accurate to 500 yards when our 223 equipped Snipers shot it on paper. On our home range we could shoot to 300 yards, many times the 223 Snipers groups were as good as the 308 snipers groups, who were shooting Federal 168 Match, and later the Winchester 168 gr Ballisitic Silvertips [also very accurate ammo], out of Accuracy International bolt rifles. I have killed several bobcats, and turkeys with the Winchester 55 gr Ballistic Silvertips, and a bunch of prairie dogs with it. It is very good factory ammo. It is great home defense ammo, I have seen a few people shot with it as well... |
|
By the way, this is my first build! Finished it last week!
href=http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b544/msummer88/photo29_zpsf0a4a3ac.jpg" /> I had to wait about 7 months for my Noveske upper.. but it's here! Shooting it on Sunday! |
AR Sponsor