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Posted: 5/7/2016 5:02:22 PM EDT
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Boy was I surprised yesterday... platform is a stag m4 upper, using a colt 3x9 scope (set at 9) 100 yards, rem umc 223 ammo, never really felt it was much accuracy wise.. but i noticed the first shot was always spot on then follow ups would drift 2-3 inches minimally,,, decided to try something i had never done with this rifle - let barrel cool down completely after 1 shot... well imagine my surprise but 4 of 5 were in 1 inch group.. i had one flyer but i know it was me caused i kind of flinched on it... this was at 100 yards.. on a windy day
i never would have believed a warm barrel could change accuracy so much |
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It's probably you, not the barrel.
I usually rapid-fire my groups because I have shot so much that I just get into a cadence with all my fundamentals happening very quickly. Quality barrel steel will hold up better than people can shoot even under heating, if the gun is built well. What barrel profile do you have? A 16" M4orgery with carbine handguards? |
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A bit strange compared to my experience
Any AR I have shot including "pencil barrels" are anything from fairly resistant to heating up and shifting to (with the H-bars) very resistant . This would be as compared to the average profile hunting rifle Even a light AR barrel seems to get off at least a 10 shot string before "stuff" starts to happen . Yeah mag dumps will twist things around but ten at a more normal pace with time spent on careful aiming seems to work pretty well . No idea why the OPs results have been so different? |
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And conversely, quality steel "will hold up" to do the exact process that occurred to it while it was being made .... if the barrel missed a step along the way, or got short-changed in some way along the way, then quality steel locks-in all the wrong, perhaps in your case poor stress-relieving, and "sets it" into perpetuity.
ETA - and oh, shameless plug for our MBT trigger. 
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| OP, when you say the "follow ups would drift 2-3 inches minimally," are the follow ups 2-3 inches from the first shot but tightly clustered to each other or are the follow ups dispersed from one another? If the follow ups are tight to each other but far from the first shot, you might want to try shooting a shot or two before you shoot your group, but keep everything at a regular pace. |
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yes it is the poor quality rem 223 55 gr fmj.. which is one reason i was surprised by the accuracy... and I would never say no that it could be me though slow fire off the bench i figure i limit my errors my normal usage is off the bench so I am pretty locked in - first round (after previously sighted in) is right in center (x ring), follow up shot in a minute or two (I am not fast firing by any measure- loading 1 rd at a time) are low and right 2-3 inches (this is 2 rounds), next 2 rounds are even a little lower - at ;east 3 inches. i then followed same process but... one shot let barrel completely cool a good 10 minutes. .. with the exception of the flyer( my fault) they are almost touching (4 rounds) i am not sure of the barrel steel - i purchased a stag kit maybe 4-5 years ago.. it could be 4140 steel not sure how to tell - it is 1/9 twist chrome lined.... i am going to have to try to duplicate this,,, i am not saying the 'normal' 2-3 inch accuracy with this ammo/rifle set up is bd.. bt i was amazed how good it did with a cold barrell.. pretty consistently... thanks for the inputs... |
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I use a high magnification scope when shooting groups from a bench. After four or five shots mirage begins to build which effects sight picture ever so slightly through the scope. By simply laying a piece of cloth over the rifle barrel the mirage disappears completely insulating the heat waves from the sight picture.
This has improved my group sizes every time I tried it. You can tell if the heat is effecting your sight picture simply by noticing if the bulls eye is drifting in and out of focus ever so slightly. Full metal jacket bullets are the worse available as far as accuracy is concerned. As already mentioned the only brand worth trying is Hornady, leave the rest alone. Any major brand USA made 52/53 grain match bullet shoots lights out at 100 yards, even 200 yards. Any further and you want a heavier match bullet. |
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Boy was I surprised yesterday... platform is a stag m4 upper, using a colt 3x9 scope (set at 9) 100 yards, rem umc 223 ammo, never really felt it was much accuracy wise.. but i noticed the first shot was always spot on then follow ups would drift 2-3 inches minimally,,, decided to try something i had never done with this rifle - let barrel cool down completely after 1 shot... well imagine my surprise but 4 of 5 were in 1 inch group.. i had one flyer but i know it was me caused i kind of flinched on it... this was at 100 yards.. on a windy day i never would have believed a warm barrel could change accuracy so much This is worth your time... Lets talk about precise accurate shooting and the combat carbine I would also recommend you review... Molon reference links 2016 |
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If you want to see a jump in shooter accuracy..... 
http://warriorproject.pl/images/blog/Triggers/2Trigger12.jpg Yep,..... But get a good scope & mount first |
| I usually fire about 10 rounds with my 20 1/2 bull barrel before the POI settles in. As long as I stick to around 2-3 rounds per minute after that it is perfect. I feel the POI on a cold and warm barrel can shift a couple inches and sighting in should be done at the temperature you intend to need to use it at. I know if I intended to fire one round from my cold Barrel it will be slightly off but I sighted in at a warm barrel temp for continuous grouping. |
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Yep,..... But get a good scope & mount first Quoted:
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If you want to see a jump in shooter accuracy.....
http://warriorproject.pl/images/blog/Triggers/2Trigger12.jpg Yep,..... But get a good scope & mount first What ever you do, don't tell that to the iron sight shooting guys! 
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OP, I feel like maybe most people are not hearing your message. I hear it and I can track with it. I have noticed heat can affect my groups. One time I did a similar thing to you. I had an A1 upper briefly and did some accuracy testing with it and it performed very well. And I did what you did and let the barrel cool a good amount between every shot. I don't think quite as long as you are saying. But I FEEL like it helped the groups. I have noticed with a few of my other skinny barrels that heat seemed to affect groups. I suppose it might NOT have been the heat, but my guess is it does affect it. I would imagine it's at least one of the reasons why sniper rifles or precision rifles usually use thicker profiled barrels. Maybe for a more rigid barrel too. IDK.
Thanks for sharing your findings. This was 100 yards, you can see some pretty decent groups for what it is..... 
Better glass and a better trigger probably would've aided in me in better results. But I was pretty pleased. But I remember feeling the barrel and letting it cool down between ever shot that session. Not completely cold like you said, but to where it wasn't overly hot to the touch. |
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OP, I feel like maybe most people are not hearing your message. I hear it and I can track with it. I have noticed heat can affect my groups. I don't know about that, I think everyone is pretty aware of heat having effect on groups. I think most people are also aware of the lack of accuracy of the ammunition used. LW barrels heat up faster, and cool down faster as well. The heavier barrels take longer to heat up, and longer to cool down. I love that Colt SP1 you posted a pic of, that is beautiful! |
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I don't know about that, I think everyone is pretty aware of heat having effect on groups. I think most people are also aware of the lack of accuracy of the ammunition used. LW barrels heat up faster, and cool down faster as well. The heavier barrels take longer to heat up, and longer to cool down. I love that Colt SP1 you posted a pic of, that is beautiful! Quoted:
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OP, I feel like maybe most people are not hearing your message. I hear it and I can track with it. I have noticed heat can affect my groups. I don't know about that, I think everyone is pretty aware of heat having effect on groups. I think most people are also aware of the lack of accuracy of the ammunition used. LW barrels heat up faster, and cool down faster as well. The heavier barrels take longer to heat up, and longer to cool down. I love that Colt SP1 you posted a pic of, that is beautiful! Well, I'm admittedly no genius. I feel like his point was how WELL he shot when he let the barrel cool down. Not how crappy UMC is. That's a whole other issue. Getting MOA with UMC......  What's weird is that my G26 shoot UMC 115 fmj really well. I seem to be noticing. Like as good as good ammo well. I thought it was kind of weird.
And then there was the flyer comment.
But a lot of the comments seem to focus on how to help him shoot better. Which I guess is always pertinent info. Especially if one doesn't want to wait 5 minutes inbetween shots. Thanks for the compliment on the rifle. It was my A2 with a SAK barreled A1 my BIL got from I think SARCO. But that SAK barrel, wow. Seemed to shoot really well. I should've never got rid of that upper. I didn't have the money to keep it at the time. |
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What is that ? 
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There's a new kid in town . . . https://app.box.com/shared/static/facphrsyzvav53w7pe485liatxvpsn0a.jpg .... What is that ?
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| follow-up: well back to range yesterday to see if I could duplicate the feat - I could not. Using same ammo, etc... let barrel cool down at least 5 minutes between shots I could not duplicate group/accuracy from last week. Back to my 'normal' 2-3 inches. Differences> well I gave the rifle a low level cleaning - for barrel just ran bore snake through it a few times. weather was hotter and muggier but less windy... sooo looks like i had a one time anomaly where my rifle turned into a match grade rifle for one week (hahaha)... all I can guess is at the time i hit a sweet spot. Maybe I will try again after a good cleaning and give it at least 10 minutes wait though I am pretty sure that is grasping for straws trying to duplicate my one time best last week. |
| You must've had your Wheaties last time. It happens though. Maybe next time. It could be the ammo though. I think I saw Molon recently say, life is like a box of M193, you never know what you're going to get. Or something to that degree. That may translate to UMC also. Now, if you go buy some black hills blue or red, I would think you'll get more consistent results. Among other match ammo. |
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