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Posted: 5/9/2011 4:20:58 PM EDT
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Acog vs variable power scope? Which Would you get and why? Lets say a 4x acog vs a vortex viper 4x-16x pst ffp or a variable scope of similar specs to a acog. Which would you get and why? This will be for target shooting, shtf etc... |
| Neither. I just can't handle fixed power optics. The AR is such a versatile platform, why would you nail it down like that. But 4x is a happy median I guess. 4-16x is quite excessive unless you are shouting prairie dogs at a third of a mile. My preference is for lower powered variables like 1-4x or 2-8x on an AR. I'm looking at a 2-10x for my 18" semi-precision rifle, but the 4-16x that's on it is much bigger and heavier than it needs to be. |
| 1-4x variable for general purpose use is, IMO, the optimal solution for an m4 optic. At 1x you have a better field of view and more speed at cqb distances, 4x for more precision and target ID at longer engagement distances....out to realistic 16in 5.56 ballistics. If your mission and/or gear dictates less of one or more of the other, you might contemplate either an RDS (cqb) or more magnification (spr/mk12/dmr). I chose an NF NXS 1-4x for my general purpose gun. Very pleased. |
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This will be for target shooting, shtf etc... Then you need two rifles, or two different optic setups with return-to-zero mounts. The ACOG is not a precise optic, at least not one using the red chevron BAC style reticle. If you're trying to drill holes in paper at 100m with an ACOG, you'll be disappointed in your groups. 1 MOA groups are next to impossible with that reticle pattern ( IMHO ). I would only ever have the red chevron reticle though - its amazingly quick to get on target with that reticle. Two eyes open, fast target to target acquisition is easy. Put up several steel targets at 100m or so, and practice going from one steel to another, or have a buddy call out "target 2!" and see how fast you can get up on it and make a hit. To appreciate that reticle, you need to understand the Bindon Aiming Concept. Target shooting - there are lots of great optics out there for that... And if you want to drill holes in paper, I'd really recommend more than 4x. At 100m, 4x is tough to see where you hit, unless you're using those Shoot N' See type targets. |
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I replaced a 3X ACOG with a SS 1-4 HD. The 1-4 is much more vesitale than the ACOG. It is faster up close and more precise at distance. Its' like haveing a red dot and a mildot scope in the same package. Which 3x? There are lots of reticle patterns available, and I would disagree that the red chevron BAC reticle is slower than a 1-4x scope. H. |
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This will be for target shooting, shtf etc... Then you need two rifles, or two different optic setups with return-to-zero mounts. The ACOG is not a precise optic, at least not one using the red chevron BAC style reticle. If you're trying to drill holes in paper at 100m with an ACOG, you'll be disappointed in your groups. 1 MOA groups are next to impossible with that reticle pattern ( IMHO ). I would only ever have the red chevron reticle though - its amazingly quick to get on target with that reticle. Two eyes open, fast target to target acquisition is easy. Put up several steel targets at 100m or so, and practice going from one steel to another, or have a buddy call out "target 2!" and see how fast you can get up on it and make a hit. To appreciate that reticle, you need to understand the Bindon Aiming Concept. Target shooting - there are lots of great optics out there for that... And if you want to drill holes in paper, I'd really recommend more than 4x. At 100m, 4x is tough to see where you hit, unless you're using those Shoot N' See type targets. I disagree. The ACOG is a very precise scope. My TA01 allows me to shoot sub MOA groups with any of my AR's that are capable of it. I had it on my Noveske SPR before getting a variable power scope and it performed like a champ. The only reason I changed it out is because I wanted the ACOG for another build. Given a rifle that is inherently accurate, shooting tight groups is a function of the shooter, not the optic. There are shooters out there that will shoot tighter groups with iron sights at 200 yards than many people can with a 14x scope at 100 yards. You don't necessarily need to see what you hit. That is one of the biggest challenges and sources of satisfaction of any distance shooting for me - trusting in you weapon and your ability to put a round on target at distance. Then you look through your spotting scope to see how you did. To answer the OP, it really depends on what you are doing. A variable power scope with parallax adjustment, target turrets, and adjustable eye piece focus will definitely have advantages for target shooting. The ACOG is an excellent general purpose scope. I definitely would not feel under equipped with an ACOG though. There is a reason they cost over a grand. |
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I also think the chevron 4x acog is the bees knees . I have no problem getting on target up close and have plugged ground hogs at a range finder indicated 275 yds. plus it is built like a tank no frills no batteries to change no parralex to adjust just point and shoot.
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I'd go with a TA11J-G for what you are wanting. It's got better eye relief and a better reticle imo for target/shtf purposes. It is heavy but I don't notice a big difference between two similarly equipped rifles with one having a TA44 and the other having a TA11.
I can hold 1.25" groups at 100yds and 200yds on an 8" steel plate are no problem either with the BCM SS410 16" upper. The TA11 rifle has changed a bit but you get the idea. 
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I liked the horseshoe more than the chevron when I was looking at ACOG's at a local store, so I went with the TA33G-H
Not sure what the center dot is on the horseshoe, but at 100yards any inaccuracies are shooter-caused with that reticule. Again, ACOGs a general purpose combat optics, they are not designated marksmen optics. |
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The ACOG is not a precise optic, at least not one using the red chevron BAC style reticle. If you're trying to drill holes in paper at 100m with an ACOG, you'll be disappointed in your groups. 1 MOA groups are next to impossible with that reticle pattern ( IMHO ). I disagree. The ACOG is a very precise scope. My TA01 allows me to shoot sub MOA groups with any of my AR's that are capable of it. I had it on my Noveske SPR before getting a variable power scope and it performed like a champ. The only reason I changed it out is because I wanted the ACOG for another build. Given a rifle that is inherently accurate, shooting tight groups is a function of the shooter, not the optic. There are shooters out there that will shoot tighter groups with iron sights at 200 yards than many people can with a 14x scope at 100 yards. You don't necessarily need to see what you hit. That is one of the biggest challenges and sources of satisfaction of any distance shooting for me - trusting in you weapon and your ability to put a round on target at distance. Then you look through your spotting scope to see how you did. The TA01, I'd agree with you - I just looked that model up, and its a standard crosshair style reticle (albeit, with some other stuff in the reticle too, sub-model depending). I guess I need to clarify that I don't think the red chevron BAC is a precision reticle: 
I find it MUCH easier to achieve 1 MOA or better (rifle depending) with a standard crosshair style reticle. I find it difficult to keep my groups tight with that reticle pattern. But I wouldn't trade that reticle pattern on my AR; it is fast, and going from target to target is easy with it. H. |
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Where is the point of aim with the chevron reticle? On top of the chevron or under it just above the red post? Depends on the model and distance. I don't have my manual open at the moment but POA for that particular reticle at 100yds is the tip of the chevron. 200yds at the bottom of the chevron, 300 at the tip of the post under the chevron, 400yds on the line with "4", etc. I find mine to be very accurate, however I'm not much of a "precision" shooter with it. If I wanted it for a precision rifle I'd go with a higher power scope and a crosshair reticle. |
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