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6/21/2017 6:44:44 PM EDT
So I have a DDM4V7LW that I used as a host to build an SPR... I bought a BA 18" .223 Wylde barrel and installed that along with a Vortex Strike Eagle 1x6... first time out with it last month I was shooting with all 3 rounds through one big hole at 50yds with it without a problem... shooting beer cans out at 150 with hardly any effort...  but I felt it was more accurate than the optic I had chosen for it... so I traded for a Vortex 2.5x10 FFP(mrad).

So I've been trying to zero it all day(took me about 15 rds with the Strike Eagle) and I've been getting pissed. At 50 yds I was only able to get it to about 1.5". Went out to 150 after I got a few groups that weren't bad and decent enough for me to consider "zeroed"... and I was getting even more pissed... optic was clear... crosshairs right on... and couldn't hold a group for shit... went back up to 100... same thing... I'd get one group to about 1/2"... then it would open back up to 2.5-3"... brought it back up to 50 and sand bagged it in a rest... same thing. Would shoot one group about 1/2" then I'd get a crazy flier... again... sandbagged on a rest.

So I started looking it over... and I'm getting a lot of flex in the barrel. I checked for any flex after I had put it on and there was none... solid as fuck...

Thought, options, recommendations... anything??  

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6/21/2017 7:07:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Assuming your barrel but it torqued properly, it's not an issue. With free float rails, you can force flex the end of the rail and barrel, but once you stop pushing on them they should snap back to place. This is why you use FF rails, so the pressure from a loaded bipod flexes just the rail and doesn't effect the barrel. 

If all you did between having good groups and bad groups is change the scope, I would first suspect that is the culprit, either poorly mounted, poor technique with the worsened parallax on higher magnification, or just a broken scope.
6/21/2017 7:15:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote History
Quoted:
Assuming your barrel but it torqued properly, it's not an issue. With free float rails, you can force flex the end of the rail and barrel, but once you stop pushing on them they should snap back to place. This is why you use FF rails, so the pressure from a loaded bipod flexes just the rail and doesn't effect the barrel. 

If all you did between having good groups and bad groups is change the scope, I would first suspect that is the culprit, either poorly mounted, poor technique with the worsened parallax on higher magnification, or just a broken scope.
View Quote
This.  I'd look at the optic or your technique.
6/21/2017 7:23:31 PM EDT
[#3]
My bet is your mount isn't torqued correctly. Check your rings, their connection to the base and the base to the rifle. If a 1 piece unit, check your screws.

As a rule, rings should be 12-18" lbs and the base should be 15-20" lbs.
6/21/2017 7:34:20 PM EDT
[#4]
I agree it's scope related. Put the old one back on and try.

Eta just saw old scope is gone. If you torqued everything correctly I would try turret repeatability and parallax tests.
6/21/2017 7:58:33 PM EDT
[#5]
remove variables to identify equipment issues

start over from scratch if you need to
6/21/2017 9:43:34 PM EDT
[#6]
First, what kind of ammo were you using on each day?

If I understand your post, the good shooting day was three round groups at 50 yards. You might have just gotten lucky. Three shot groups don't tell you much that can be carried over to another session.  It's quite possible the rifle is shooting as well as it was before. I test things with seven shot groups and try to keep the distance, rest, etc. all the same.

Getting a 1/2" three shot group at 50 (or even 100) followed by a shot a 2-3 inches off center isn't that unusual, especially for average quality ammo. Definitely check out your scope and mounts, but you have all sorts of potential variables that you won't be able to isolate without developing consistent testing methods. The movement of the barrel would be way down on my list of suspects.
6/22/2017 12:35:29 AM EDT
[#7]
I can guarantee the barrel flex is not the issue as having the flex is very normal for free floated barrels.
As others already suggested, it might be the optic mounting option or the optic itself.
Or, maybe it is the barrel + ammo combination that is causing the issue here.
6/22/2017 12:39:51 AM EDT
[#8]
What ammo are you shooting?

One 3 shot or 5 shot group doesn't really say a lot.  I try for multiple 5 shot groups before I consider the gun zeroed and accurate.
6/22/2017 2:36:47 AM EDT
[#9]
I might have been know, on occasion, to go to zero with the scope rings not tightened all the way... Just sayin..
6/22/2017 7:58:16 AM EDT
[#10]
I've been using 55gr wolf, 55gr Lake City, 62gr federal... honestly I've been checking everything... and to be honest... I think it's probably me. I took it back out and did a parallax test... and I think that's it... I've never had a scope with a side focus... and I think my adjustments were off... because unless I have it adjusted and eye lined up perfectly... I am getting shift. So I'm going to check everything again today... and I'm going to bet it was me.
6/22/2017 8:02:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:
I've been using 55gr wolf, 55gr Lake City, 62gr federal... honestly I've been checking everything... and to be honest... I think it's probably me. I took it back out and did a parallax test... and I think that's it... I've never had a scope with a side focus... and I think my adjustments were off... because unless I have it adjusted and eye lined up perfectly... I am getting shift. So I'm going to check everything again today... and I'm going to bet it was me.
View Quote
Well, there's your problem.

Expecting ammo that is spec'd at 2-4 MOA to perform any better than that in any type of repeatable fashion is just throwing money away.  Those few small groups you got are the exception, not the norm, with that list of ammo.  This is also why, at minimum, 5 shot groups are a much better test than 3.

If you want to shoot small groups, pick up some match ammo or start reloading.
6/22/2017 8:08:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote History
Quoted:
Well, there's your problem.

Expecting ammo that is spec'd at 2-4 MOA to perform any better than that in any type of repeatable fashion is just throwing money away.  Those few small groups you got are the exception, not the norm, with that list of ammo.  This is also why, at minimum, 5 shot groups are a much better test than 3.

If you want to shoot small groups, pick up some match ammo or start reloading.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've been using 55gr wolf, 55gr Lake City, 62gr federal... honestly I've been checking everything... and to be honest... I think it's probably me. I took it back out and did a parallax test... and I think that's it... I've never had a scope with a side focus... and I think my adjustments were off... because unless I have it adjusted and eye lined up perfectly... I am getting shift. So I'm going to check everything again today... and I'm going to bet it was me.
Well, there's your problem.

Expecting ammo that is spec'd at 2-4 MOA to perform any better than that in any type of repeatable fashion is just throwing money away.  Those few small groups you got are the exception, not the norm, with that list of ammo.  This is also why, at minimum, 5 shot groups are a much better test than 3.

If you want to shoot small groups, pick up some match ammo or start reloading.
This. Jesus you're trying to get itty bitty groups with shit ball. Do you match, bro?
6/22/2017 8:22:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote History
Quoted:
Well, there's your problem.

Expecting ammo that is spec'd at 2-4 MOA to perform any better than that in any type of repeatable fashion is just throwing money away.  Those few small groups you got are the exception, not the norm, with that list of ammo.  This is also why, at minimum, 5 shot groups are a much better test than 3.

If you want to shoot small groups, pick up some match ammo or start reloading.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've been using 55gr wolf, 55gr Lake City, 62gr federal... honestly I've been checking everything... and to be honest... I think it's probably me. I took it back out and did a parallax test... and I think that's it... I've never had a scope with a side focus... and I think my adjustments were off... because unless I have it adjusted and eye lined up perfectly... I am getting shift. So I'm going to check everything again today... and I'm going to bet it was me.
Well, there's your problem.

Expecting ammo that is spec'd at 2-4 MOA to perform any better than that in any type of repeatable fashion is just throwing money away.  Those few small groups you got are the exception, not the norm, with that list of ammo.  This is also why, at minimum, 5 shot groups are a much better test than 3.

If you want to shoot small groups, pick up some match ammo or start reloading.
I agree.  The bullet used in making the ammo will be your limiting factor.
6/22/2017 1:29:12 PM EDT
[#14]
From your two pics, I would say your barrel is loose.  Or even your alignment pin might be sheared.  Your barrel should not be rotating,
6/22/2017 3:56:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote History
Quoted:
From your two pics, I would say your barrel is loose.  Or even your alignment pin might be sheared.  Your barrel should not be rotating,
View Quote
It's not rotating, he's force flexing it by leveraging the barrel against the end of the FF rail.
6/22/2017 4:50:12 PM EDT
[#16]
As others said, it's most likely the ammo. The performance you described is consistent with the ammo you are using. To really find out what the rifle will do, buy a variety of match ammo with different bullets weights, anywhere between 50 grains and 77 grains. Don't buy more than a box of any one thing until it has proven to shoot well in your rifle. Federal Gold Medal Match and Black Hills tend to turn out the best match ammo, in my experience. Hornady not so much. Shoot at least five shot groups; seven or ten are even better.
6/22/2017 6:30:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote History
Quoted:
As others said, it's most likely the ammo. The performance you described is consistent with the ammo you are using. To really find out what the rifle will do, buy a variety of match ammo with different bullets weights, anywhere between 50 grains and 77 grains. Don't buy more than a box of any one thing until it has proven to shoot well in your rifle. Federal Gold Medal Match and Black Hills tend to turn out the best match ammo, in my experience. Hornady not so much. Shoot at least five shot groups; seven or ten are even better.
View Quote
110%. This is a damn fine start.
6/22/2017 7:20:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Issue is the ammo.
6/22/2017 7:39:38 PM EDT
[#19]
It's shooting fine considering the ammo and optic you are using.
6/22/2017 8:19:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote History
Quoted:


Well, there's your problem.

Expecting ammo that is spec'd at 2-4 MOA to perform any better than that in any type of repeatable fashion is just throwing money away.  Those few small groups you got are the exception, not the norm, with that list of ammo.  This is also why, at minimum, 5 shot groups are a much better test than 3.

If you want to shoot small groups, pick up some match ammo or start reloading.
View Quote
Shit! I'm sorry... I didn't list the 77gr SMK I was using too (sparingly). Used the wolf to get on paper. And was a shooting the 62gr because I have a lot of it... and again was getting much better consistency and accuracy from it last time.

Once I really started looking for parallax and how to "fix" it... the issue(me) resolved. Was much happier with the groups when I did all that.
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