AR Sponsor
Posted: 12/18/2003 10:00:44 PM EDT
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hey there yall, aint posted in bout a year, been real "busy". anyway the upshot of this post is this: I am now the armorer for a Field Artillery Battery which is being deployed to Iraq sometime in feb (opsec so dont ask). About 2 months ago our brigade decided were all going as dismounted infantry and that we needed to create 6 snipers. My problem is that we will not be being issued m24 'sniper rifles' Im pretty familier with the aftermarket stuff i can get but i would love if some of yall who shoot long range on a regular basis could give me some good tips, tricks, and add ons. Heres what i have to work with: Standard M16A2s that i have mounted with the m5 rails. the rest we are expected to provide out of pocket. Any advice at all would be appreciated. and if yall could keep in mind that were all trying to do this on e3 and e4 pay that would be great too, lol. |
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Your best bet would be to order (if you can swing it with your TO&E) some stripped M16A4 uppers and throw them onto the A2s. You can then mod the FCG so it doesn't have the crappy A2 trigger pull[b]s[/b] or you might even be able to get either M16A1 parts or civilian semi parts into the lowers, depends on how lenient higher is. The M5 rails will work well enough then you'll need optics and that's where the money is. I'm not sure I understand how you're paying to create weapons required by higher. |
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Trijicon ACOG TA31-series optic. Try to get some Mk262 Mod1 ammo (77gr match). Try NOT to use M855; you're better off with M193. There's not that much else that you can do with a carry-handle upper, but this setup will give you a perfectly adequate platform to get the job done. -Troy |
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i think this may help explain a little, higher (brigade) made the decision, but because of available resources and mtoe (remember artillery here) they have stated no new model weapons (ie anything we dont already have) for our battery, we also requested a modification work order for the A4 uppers (not m4 because of ballistics) and were denied because of parts availability, i did manage to exchange 8 old weapons for 8 new in the box. i figure that given the interests people on this site a large majority of yall have at least tried to turn an ar into a long range tack driver. im more looking for input on optics (i managed to pick up carry handle adapters) for use in a mil spec barrel shooting issue ball, and what if any bipods or other supports work well on a mil standard rail platform. me and my guys are tryin to kit ourselves with our rather meager spending money, left up to our chain of command they would have us engage distance point targets with stock rifles. were trying to make ourselfs efficient enough to whack the bad guy before we take an rpg, or machine gun fire. We can get the trijis and aimpoints, but we want something with adjustable magnification, and a crosshair of somekind. this may be a longshot but any info i can get is better than non, since im stationed in germany i cant really go to the local range and research this stuff myself. thanx, and keep feedin me any info yall can. "Never Broken By Hardship Nor Battle" Romeo (wolf) 1 |
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Whoa! What you're doing is creating DM rifles, not sniper weapons to be used in a sniper role. I say this not to be a prick, but to make sure your DMs job is defined before you start figuring out the tools for it. Your DMs aren't operating on their own in support of a higher echelon unit, they'll be operating as part of a platoon, to provide observation and more accurate rifle fire than the ironsighted or M68-sighted riflemen will be. IMHO, what you really need is an ACOG, because you most likely will not have access to MK262 or any other match-grade ammunition, and your guys aren't trained to use it effectively anyway. If your uppers are A2-type, get some type of a cheekpiece for the stock so they can get something resembling a repeatable stockweld. TMMV, IMHO, etc.. QS |
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I good friend of mine, Bill who was SF and a sniper school graduate just built one for his own use. He wanted a 5.56 rifle to be able to engage out to 500 meters with sub-moa accuracy. -24 inch stainless (blackened) bull barrel (1-in-9) -Leupold 6.5-20X 50mm Long Range Target Scope (same one used by US Army and Marines for Designated Marksman) -RRA Two stage trigger (4.5 lbs combined pull) -Forged A4 upper -Flip down front and rear back up sight -target pistol grip with palmrest -adjustable cheekpiece -edited to add: Harris Bipod He has consistently gotten sub-MOA with 55,62 and 77 grain. The scope was the most expensive part, the rest was relatively inexpensive. I was was even able to get some sub moa groups, and I am no sniper (more of an 11B iron sights kind of guy). That Leupold is amazing, brings you right out there with a clear bright-as-day picture. |
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Still a newbie here, but I do have a small amount of experience with AR's, and quite a bit of experience w/ shooting things at long distances w/ a .223. You're gonna be mounting your optics way-up-high on the carry handle. This automatically creates a weak link. You're stressing the carry handle, using it for something it wasn't designed for, i think. You're also placing your optics in an area where they are more prone to take a hit, and a harder hit, due to the geometry/ leverage of being so far away from the rest of the rifle. With this in mind, light, relatively compact, rugged optics are the way to go. I'm as a big a fan of Vari-X III leupolds as anyone ever was, and the 6.5-20x in its various configurations is a fine piece of glass. I can state without hesitation that the Vari-x III leupolds are the only 500$ price range optics I'd trust my life to. For that matter, they're the only $800 optics i'd trust. But 1) the 6.5-20x is longer and heavier than a 3.5-10x or 4.5-14x, and 2) I'm not sure you need 20X to engage the targets you have to deal with. I've killed coyotes out in the 300 yard + range with 14x, and crows, etc, much farther than that. It seems to me that 10x would be sufficient and 14x even more so. The deciding factor between the 3.5-10 and 4.5-14x is the importance of the additional flexibility gained by 3.5x vs. 4.5x. I've never shot at anything that shot back, so I have no right to an opinion here, but I'd lean to 4.5x, as it's still useful (not optimum) up close, and only a select few of your group will have them anyway. And for what it's worth, I don't think the extra money for the 50mm lens would be worth the difference they make. One of my leupolds has the thick (heavy duplex) crosshairs, and they are quite handy in low-light, fast-target conditions. The rifle this scope sits on is a .25 moa gun, and I've never felt handicapped by the 'big' crosshairs. Hope this helps. |
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As a former infantryman, I feel for ya, as you are going to be used in a role you were not specailized in, so, I felt the need to chime in here.... If you have to you use carry handle M16A2's, and want to make some of them "precision" platforms, I suggest purchasing some ARMS #2 mounts to be used in conjunction with standard riflescopes. here is a link to ARMS: [url]http://www.armsmounts.com/list.html[/url] The mounts retail for $59.95; I am sure ARMS will give you a break if you purchase thru GSA or thru them directly and use Unit letterhead. Add some relatively inexpensive Bushnell scopes and rings (the "Optitic Zone" has Bushnell Legend 3-9x40, with 3-2-1 Low Light Reticle scopes for $135.00) and you have something to work with at a cost of perhaps less than $200 per weapon. Additionally, since you will be using not-so-rugged optics, the ARMS mount allows the scope/mount assembly to be removed and carried in a hard case (NVG hard case, perhaps?) when not needed and then mounted when conditions require. The #2 mount will hold it's zero repeatedly. I have one and it is a great mount for carry-handle scope mounting. This set up WILL NOT win you Olympic Gold medals or make you rival Carlos Hathcock, but, you will will have reliable Center Of Mass hit capability at great range with these. I sincerely hope this helps you out in the 'sandbox'. It has been a long time since I wore BDU's and carried a rifle, but remember to communicate with your squadmates when engaged. Good luck and God Bless |
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Heres what i have to work with: Standard M16A2s that i have mounted with the m5 rails. the rest we are expected to provide out of pocket. Any advice at all would be appreciated. and if yall could keep in mind that were all trying to do this on e3 and e4 pay that would be great too, lol. I'm a former Army Grunt and MP, small arms instructor, and service rifle team shooter when I was in the reserves. I currently shoot HP in the service rifle class. Since you are on a tight budget and can't really get too out of the TOE pipeline, I have the following suggestions: Floating handguards to eliminate sling tension on the barrel. Harris bipod to allow quick supported shots without having to sling up. A1 FCG to eliminate the 'creep' in the A2 triggers. Since you are stuck with the carry handle, an ACOG is probably your best optic choice. Built in BDC for issue ammo and excellent optics. Some sort of a cheak rest. Be it the 'delta' plastic sleeve, or something that goes on and off with velcro to allow a quick conversion of the weapon to iron sights. Make double sure that the barrels on these weapons have NEVER been exposed to auto fire. Use new barrels if you can. My experience with the rack grade M-16A1 is it can hold minute of torso out to 600 yards with ball ammo. The A2's should be no different. You're looking for a tool for a designated marksman, not a school trained sniper. Solid upper body hits out to 600 yards, not called head shots are what you're looking for. Most if not all of the parts I've mentioned come from the commercial HP community. If you want more info, I'll dig up some of the suppliers I've used for my personal weapons. |
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here i go again, this is gettin to where its helping now, i do realize that we wont be sniper quality when we hit the box, just so yall dont think im getting my hopes up. in the barrel usage catagory i just unpacked these from their colt shipping boxes yesterday, and they havent been fired since the factory shipped em in the 80s. so far what i have on them is aimtech carry handel mounts (with center hole for iron sight emergancy use) and millet angel-locs (both provided by a store at home to my dad for cost). i would like a line on some harris bipods with that mil rail adapter that i have been hearing about though. and keep on tellin me bout good optics too, but keep in mind we can always steal the aimpoints if we feel we need em. i also have mounted the forward pistol grip, a sure-fire with the touchpad, and the cqb side mount slingswivel, mounting a specops mamba sling. id also appreciate anything anyone could add about ancillary shooting gear like spotting scopes and those little pocket weather things ive seen advertised. any and all information is great guys keep on preachin me the gospel!! |
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Quoted: i also have mounted the forward pistol grip[red]irrelevant for what you're doing..will be a pita[/red], a sure-fire with the touchpad[red]hope you got a Butler Creek to cover it with[/red], and the cqb side mount slingswivel, mounting a specops mamba sling. id also appreciate anything anyone could add about ancillary shooting gear like spotting scopes and those little pocket weather things [red] you don't need a Kestrel...your guys won't know what to do with the data anyway[/red]ive seen advertised. any and all information is great guys keep on preachin me the gospel!! edited to add...see if you can lay hands on some 20 round mags..much easier to shoot with in prone. |
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and keep on tellin me bout good optics too, but keep in mind we can always steal the aimpoints if we feel we need em. The Aimpoint is more of a CQB sight. Reports from the troops say it's the 'red dot of death'. The downside is that like iron sights, you zero the Aimpoint for a known distance, and have to 'hold off' for other ranges. The ACOG has a built in BDC and 4x magnification. If you're using precision aimed fire, I'd strongly suggest an optic with at least 4x. Another advantage to the ACOG is it dosen't use batteries. Let us know how this all turns out. Stay safe and come home soon. |
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Quoted: here i go again, this is gettin to where its helping now, i do realize that we wont be sniper quality when we hit the box, just so yall dont think im getting my hopes up. in the barrel usage catagory i just unpacked these from their colt shipping boxes yesterday, and they havent been fired since the factory shipped em in the 80s. so far what i have on them is aimtech carry handel mounts (with center hole for iron sight emergancy use) and millet angel-locs (both provided by a store at home to my dad for cost). i would like a line on some harris bipods with that mil rail adapter that i have been hearing about though. and keep on tellin me bout good optics too, but keep in mind we can always steal the aimpoints if we feel we need em. i also have mounted the forward pistol grip, a sure-fire with the touchpad, and the cqb side mount slingswivel, mounting a specops mamba sling. id also appreciate anything anyone could add about ancillary shooting gear like spotting scopes and those little pocket weather things ive seen advertised. any and all information is great guys keep on preachin me the gospel!! Purely my opinion, of course, but I think you need to decide if you want a longer range rifle, or one for all around and close-in use. The sure fire and pistol grip won't do much for you in long range work, and the pistol grip may just get in your way more than anything else. The sure fire is never a bad item to have, but don't mount the pressure pad so that you may touch it off at the wrong time and become a target yourself. Again, just my opinion, but the best M16A2 you can find--you already have that--along with KNOWN accurate ammo, good optics appropriate for the intended use, and lots and lots and lots of practice--is your best bet for the mission you described. A cheekpiece is a good addition to the basic rifle. Then forget all the other "cool" stuff. The bipod--without installing a free float handguard--may actually hurt your performance since if it isn't used correctly it can cause more barrel flex and group dispersion. And a bipod is no substitute for practice. And they're a pain in the a$$ to move around with. Optics: You'll have to make the choice between cost, size, power, etc., as only you know how you're going to use them. If you were buying on Uncle's budget, there is lots of good stuff around and the advice would be different. But since this is out of your pocket, the best glass for my money is Leupold VariX II or III. For shorter range and all around use--1X4. Short and Medium range--something like 2X7. Neither of these are the best light gathering scopes, but aren't bulky and won't get in your way too much. With optics, everything's a compromise. For longer range 4X12 is my choice, though it's a bigger glass and more prone to hits. Optics of any kind do require more careful handling, so be sure to keep the rifles zeroed. ARMS is a good mount. I don't have any experience with the mounts you mentioned, so I'll leave them for others to comment on. Screw-on sun shades for your scopes are nice to have available when you want them, though they are necessarily big, bulky and fragile. But they also help prevent lens reflection, which is a good way for the BG's to spot you. Good luck, and keep your head down. |
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If I was in your desert boots- Try to get the ACOGs, as they are in the supply system. If not, a good fixed power scope, the best you can afford, with a sunshade and Butler Creek covers. Issue lens pens to the gunners. Definitely get a cheekpiece for each one-the Cherokee or similar. Harris bipods. I've got one I'll give you. You may be able to mount PVS-4's-Tapco and others sell an adapter. If you can, get the AR or M-16A1 internals for better trigger pull. Hammer, disconnector, trigger. Check out this page and the others it points you to- [url]http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/dm/overview.htm[/url] And the pics pages. [img]http://www.isayeret.com/sniping/givaty-dm.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.isayeret.com/sniping/givaty5.jpg[/img] |
| I have a bolt on cheek piece[ cherokee] just like the picture posted above on the Isreali soldiers rifle. I would like to donate it to your unit, if you could use it. If you will send me an address to [email protected] I will forward it to you,I am not using it and maybe you or one of your comrades could.Good luck with your deployment...... |
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Well you should be able to sign for some ACOGS in Iraq. In afghanistan the mess sgt had an Acog. You just have to work the system when you get there. also they should have no problem getting flat top uppers if not when you get in country they should have some sorta Depot level support(get the chain of command involved to push the issue),they do barrel changes etc. The big thing is some bipods if this is a problem let us know Im sure we can raise the money for 6 Bipods. hell Cavalry arms and the members here got my PLT 40 sets of tan/coyote brown stocks,handguard and grips. Im sure we can help just let us know what you need. hell let me know I will pull the bipod off my SPR if you need it that bad. but the bottom line is if your BDE CDR wants snipers he needs to get off his ass to get you what you need. Take care FREE |
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Let me get this straight... You were told to "create" snipers but are not being issued sniper rifles? It seems to be that you are being told to "designate 6 marksmen". If your unit does not have any formally trained snipers, then you have no need for M24s. That would be like putting a jig saw in the hands of a lumber jack. Get an A-4, a Knights FF RAS and slap an ACOG on top. Your designated marksmen will be able to hit consistently out to 600 with no problems. I absolutely HATE it when modern commanders confuse snipers with designated marksmen. |
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If you go with a short eye relief optic like the ACOG or others, shorter stocks might be beneficial especially when you are wearing your LBV or Body Armor. We manufacture A1 length (5/8" shorter than A2) stocks that will drop right on your issue rifles. We also have them in Coyote Brown and Desert tan, let me know if you could use them and we'll see what we can do. ---Russell Phagan Cavalry Arms Staff |
| Dump A2, get A4 ($100 install yourself). Any Optic = Flat top. Cheekpads flat out suck for anything, even as dog chew toys. Go Aimpoint ($300) or ACOG ($500). Sight weapon in with ammo you will use in field. Don't fuck with optic after it's mounted and sighted in. If I was you I'd beg, borrow or steal the money and get the ACOG. You may thank Trijicon later for saving your ass. |
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hey yall back again, thanx for the good input so far, ive been tryin to respond individually to people but for whatever reason my computer wont let me send mail thru the site here. so as much as i hate to look like im beggin for stuff, if u really have an interest in helping me outfit my guys with anything, just shoot me an email at [email protected] and put ar15.com in the subject line. and obtw, I realize that they are just designated marksman, but the chain of command doesnt they insist on callin them snipers, even though i pointed out that they arent (this really pisses of my neighbor cause hes the head of the snipers for one of the infantry units here). i also realize that alot of the extra toys are deemed unnessacery, untill u take into account that we also have to act in a regular grunt role by doing such things as clearing houses and pulling checkpoint.No special treatment for the designated marksmen here. ive gotten alot of good stuff info-wise so far, but id still like to get a better consensus tube optics. thanx again guys. |
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GlockLuvinRedleg, NSN on the ACOG is 1240-01-412-6608. If you are stuck with the A2 do get cheek pads. You really need to consider where and how are you going to deploy the shooters. IE. Are you going to be sending them out during convoy ops? Used in towers during base defense? Conducting no knock and condoration ops? We had one of our snipers get a confirm at night when they went back to retrive their rocket launcher. You will also have to understand when and how the enemy attacks. Convoys are hit during the day (defensive), we conduct offensive operations at night. The enemy will also mortar your positions at night. You need to also look at night optics for your guys. Try and get some PVS-14s and mount them in front of your day optics. Currently I carry a M4A1 with ACOG. I need to get myself a PVS-14. Went out last night resuppling teams (MH53) and had no night vision. Another thought if you can not get PVS-14, get some IR lasers ie PEQ-2s and mount those on the gun (standard M16A2 mounts on front sight post) and use PVS-5/7). |
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Quoted: hey there yall, aint posted in bout a year, been real "busy". anyway the upshot of this post is this: I am now the armorer for a Field Artillery Battery which is being deployed to Iraq sometime in feb (opsec so dont ask). About 2 months ago our brigade decided were all going as dismounted infantry and that we needed to create 6 snipers. My problem is that we will not be being issued m24 'sniper rifles' Im pretty familier with the aftermarket stuff i can get but i would love if some of yall who shoot long range on a regular basis could give me some good tips, tricks, and add ons. Heres what i have to work with: Standard M16A2s that i have mounted with the m5 rails. the rest we are expected to provide out of pocket. Any advice at all would be appreciated. and if yall could keep in mind that were all trying to do this on e3 and e4 pay that would be great too, lol. If you need any help with your standard M4 Carbine or M5 (Rifle) Rail Adapter Systems (RAS), e-mail me at [email protected] as we make those parts for the Army. My telephone is (772) 562-5697...please to all others, this e-mail and phone are restricted to US Military only. I have spoken with many units like yours preparing to deploy with the same sniper rifle needs and restrictions. What several of them have done is drawn M14's from stock because for the longer ranges they want the inherent lethality of 7.62 in that role. And for some reason, its easier to accomplish this than get parts to re-configure issue M4's/M16A2's. I know this to be true because soon after they do this, they are buying our (KAC) rail system for the M14 so they can mount real sniper scopes, the PEQ-2, etc. One unit recently got 81, and now they have ordered more. SO if this unit has figured out how to "break the code", then you should be able to pull this off as well. Good luck. |
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Glockluvinredleg I mailed the package today with a cheek piece donation and another goodie I found lying around that you might be able to use. Good luck.............. PS: post some pics of the weapons or ur unit if you get the chance, I would sure like to see it. |
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If you are deploying with 1st Infantry DIVARTY, I know for a fact, each artillery battalion is getting a small number of ACOGs, M68s, PVS-14s, and some unknown brand of advanced optical site. I've been working pretty close with the DIVARTY S4 on getting these items. The problem we are experiencing is any order over $2500 is automatically sent out for a competitive bid and we keep receiving low bidder crap that looks the same but is low quality. I sent in an order for tactical thigh holsters and we got the $20 version. I requested 3 point slings and we got the $12 SPEC-OPS brand peice of sh*t. Keep your orders below $2500 and you can request a specific brand and model of equipment. If you are in 1ID, call me and I can give you the complete list of what is coming in for us. I am the S2 NCO for 1-33 FA. |
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I think you have heard from the experts and if you didn't take Coldblue up on his offer for advise you have missed the best source of info you will find. Dave (aka Coldblue) IS THE MAN to talk to about upgrades... Personally, I agree with the advise above as these people have real world experience. Now, if you still want my oppinion, for an accurate M-16 platform I would want a stiffer barrel then the A2. If you can handle the weight I would consider the heavy DCM profile barrels but these are a specialized barrel that do weight quite a bit more and a good HBAR may well shoot as well. I would want a Free Float Tube (I love the KAC FF RAS), I would want a solid swivel bipod (Harris is great), and good optics (for optics advise I must defer to others that know more). From there, Knights Armament makes an absoultely increadable 2-stage trigger for the M-16 that will make your M-16 into a match grade rifle with the option for more if your tail was on the line. Well, like I said, I have no military experience but I have shot DCM/CMP for years and I have owned and used the M-16 and I know these are the things I would want... Now, call Dave....!!! |
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Howdy, I've shot M16/AR15s a lot, focusing on accuracy for competition/hunting, including out to 1000 yds. (I wrote a book on it: "Black Magic: The Ultra-Accurate AR15", plus many articles.) First, I have no experience w/ACOGs, but have used many Leupolds on ARs w/custom match & military bbls, both w/carry handles & flat tops. For carry handles, I consider a 3.5-10X Leupold the optimum balance of size, flexibility of field of view at low power for short range/quick target aquisition, & accuracy at long range. 4.5-14s are good but tend to have Adjustable Ojective lenses that add moving parts; I'd use a fixed obj. for durability. Both 3.5-10 & 4.5-14 are shorter than 6.5-20X, thus more portable. Also, IMHO you don't need 20X. I compared Leupold 40mm & 50mm 6.5-20s in hazy/low light cond's while varminting & saw no sig. advantage to the 50. 40's are more compact, mount lower, cost less & have excellent optics. Don't buy cheap scopes; only your life depends on it... Scopes should ALWAYS be set at 3.5X (lowest power!!!) until you need to turn it up for a specific reason -- IMHO, this MUST be drilled into your shooter's heads until it is automatic. Spot-check, & harass 'em if found w/the power cranked up, as low power lets them engage close targets fast. Matthias Hetzenauer, one of WW2 Germany's top snipers w/kills in the hundreds, said 6X was luxurious by the standards of the day. 3.5X will do the job, but trying to quickly engage a close target w/a 10X scope can be real bad... Vari-X III Leupolds have great optics; hunting versions come with 1/4 MOA "coin click" low profile knobs that don't stick up like target scope's high turrets. I prefer hunting scopes; they're less apt to get beat up than target knobs if you handle the rifles roughly. They have 15 MOA per one turn of the dial. Thus, you can adjust out to about 600 yards in less than one complete revolution. Once you're zeroed at 200, you shouldn't have to adjust so far out that you lose track of your adjustment and become one turn "off" as can happen when shooting past 600. Target knobs are faster to adjust than coin click knobs and have markings on the turrets to record how many turns you've made. So, if you go more than 15 MOA you can keep track of your revs. Using A2s as you describe, you are unlikely to need that feature, IMHO. If you need to save money, you can get a used, exc. Vari-X II 3-9 for $150-160 & send it to Premier Reticles in WV; for $25/scope he'll install low Vari-X III coin-click 1/4 MOA knobs. He usually gets them done in a week. (BTW, I haven't studied the new VX2/VX3s; you might check the new lineup.) Sometimes, Vari-X III coin click knobs won't give 1/4 MOA per click in certain Vari-X II scopes depending on the model. So, you'd need to get on the range & check the adjustments and work out the zeros at each distance. HOWEVER, you ALWAYS need to do that with EVERY rifle, anyway -- LEAVE NOTHING TO CHANCE!! Optics won't be as bright as Vari-X III's but they do work very well in my considerable hunting experience -- I've never found them lacking. I took a flat top AR carbine w/a Colt 16" lightweight bbl & 2-7X Leupold with 1/4 MOA click knobs to Thunder Ranch Urban Rifle 2 class. Using 55 gr. Sierra HPBT's, I got consistent head shots from prone, using a sling, no rest, in a 15 mph quartering wind coming from 4 o-clock, at 300 yards on the 1/2 size steel silhouettes, very easily -- & that was w/a GI type chrome lined bbl. I held the vertical crosswire a few inches to the right of the silhouette (Kentucky Windage); after 1-2 sighter shots, I effortlessly drilled the headshots. So, even the 7X worked great at 300. Several guys w/Aimpoints or red dot type sights weren't hitting silhouettes AT ALL at 200/300. That may have been due to several factors: bad zeros, cheapo ball ammo, poor resolution due to a crude, large dot reticle, difference in skill, etc, but the scoped AR carbine RULED on the precision portion of the course, hands down. Years ago, I put a Tasco Pro-point w/a 4 or 5 MOA dot (can't remember) on a flat top AR for testing at 100 yds. It was very hard to get decent accuracy on headshots on a silhouette at 100 as the big dot covered up most of the head; at longer range it would have been a disaster so I canned it. The 2-7X Leupold is VERY compact; mounts very low on flat top AR, & worked well for me in PR2. I would get Butler Creek scope covers to protect optics on any scope. If you can get both M193 & M855 ammo, test them in your rifles & see which your rifles like. They may have a strong preference for accuracy; feed them what they like if possible and test at as long a range as you can manage! If you can get good match ammo, that would be better yet assuming your rifles like it; take NOTHING for granted. If you get overseas & you go to a depot or higher level maintenance area to have flat top receivers put on your rifles, STAY W/YOUR RIFLES & DON'T LET THEM OUT OF YOUR SIGHT. Why, you ask? I spent 7 years in the regular Army. Some pinhead will probably say "why should I bother switching bbls when I can just switch uppers, & they'll never know?" They then head off to the latrine with some hand lotion, & your carefully selected, brand new bbl turns into some full-auto-fired, worn out reject. Make sure they put YOUR new bbl onto a flat top receiver, if you get that option... only 7 years of experience makes me cynical... If they won't let you watch them switch, engrave or paint a # or identifying mark onto each bbl -- I'm NOT kidding... :) Consider investing in good cleaning rods. Sinclair Int'l (on web) has all those supplies, including a rod guide to protect your rifling throat. NEVER EVER let anyone clean the rifles from the muzzle, don't hammer the crappy GI multi-section rods through the breech roughly & beat up the rifling. Treat them carefully. If you get good rods, you will need a case made of PVC pipe to keep them CLEAN so you don't pick up grit that damages your bbl. The rod is NEVER set down on a dirty surface, or if it is, wipe it off before use. If you use GI rods, polish the joints so that there are no rough edges -- blend them smooth, and then use them CAREFULLY to keep from wearing the bbl throats. DO get some good solvent -- BREAK FREE IS NOT A GOOD SOLVENT. I recomment Shooter's Choice. IMPORTANT: Take a crescent wrench & loosen your flash hiders, then re-tighten them only SLIGHTLY more than hand tight-- just barely snug. US Army Marksmanship Unit testing has shown that a too-tight FH can greatly decrease accuracy all by itself. If you're shooting more than a few rounds at a time, esp. in hot weather, you may find mirage comes off your bbls & distorts vision through your scope. (Less likely if scope is on carry handle.) If so, put a strip of tape over the vents in the top of your handguard to keep heat from rising into your scope's view. If you get mirage off the bbl fwd of the handguard, you can wrap bbl w/heavy tape to eliminate mirage. Check your carry handle scope mounts after firing at least 30-40 rds to make sure they stay tight & well zeroed. If they don't,(many el-cheapo carry handle scope bases come loose in 15-20 rds), there is a cheap fix. Use glass bedding compound to tighten them up: just put release agent on the carry handle but NOT on the scope mount, & glass bed scope mount to CH. When dry, you'll have a vacuum fit; w/care in taking it off & on, it will last for years. No wobble & it will stay tight & keep zero very well. Once your rifles are well zeroed, you should NOT be taking the scopes off and dicking w/them for best results in precision shooting if possible. Hope this helps; feel free to email me direct at [email protected]. Sincerely, John |
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I may be missing something here, but if all your trying to create is a DMR, all your going to need is to throw some scopes onto some rifles, ensure everything is torqued down to the proper levels and that is it. Your trying to put to together weapons for combat, it's not rocket science. Although a flat top would be better even carrying handle mounts still will work, don't so much worry about all the ergonomics, when those who have to fire the weapons with SAPI plates in and while wearing armor and helmets on aren't going to notice it much, ergonomics of a weapon with a stock that is too long anyway are less so important. Not to mention that under fire you don't notice things like that. |
| Hey Glockluvinredleg, here is the contact info for Pro Defence Police Supply where I purchased that Eagle sling. Their toll free number of 1-888-law-gear. They also have a website at prodefense.com. They could help you guys out if you want some more of those slings like I sent you. If you need any help them mention that Chris Mccollum refered you, they know me well there.............. |
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