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Posted: 4/1/2017 7:19:28 PM EDT
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So i recently posted a thread in the troubleshooting forum asking about light primer strikes and causes/solutions.
finally got that solved by just giving the bcg a really good cleaning but now after a few days of shooting the gun seems to just want to double feed constantly. happens with multiple mags that work just fine with other ARs. could it be the BCG causing the problem? quick specs - spikes crusader lower alg trigger group rainier complete upper fail zero m16 bcg cleaned the gun completely, its oiled all correctly and ive tried it with used and trusted mags and brand new out of the box. this is how todays shooting session went with the gun. double feed, clear malf, bang bang bang bang, double feed, clear malf, double feed, clear malf, bang bang, double feed, clear malf. |
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Quoted:
So i recently posted a thread in the troubleshooting forum asking about light primer strikes and causes/solutions. finally got that solved by just giving the bcg a really good cleaning but now after a few days of shooting the gun seems to just want to double feed constantly. happens with multiple mags that work just fine with other ARs. could it be the BCG causing the problem? quick specs - spikes crusader lower alg trigger group rainier complete upper fail zero m16 bcg cleaned the gun completely, its oiled all correctly and ive tried it with used and trusted mags and brand new out of the box. this is how todays shooting session went with the gun. double feed, clear malf, bang bang bang bang, double feed, clear malf, double feed, clear malf, bang bang, double feed, clear malf. Is it really double feeding or is an empty staying in the upper? |
| There seems to be some real QC problems with Fail Zero BCGs lately, at least from what I have seen. Dealers seem to be practically giving them away (saw one for $99 the other day). Lots of negative reviews recently as well, so it definitely could be the BCG. Is it a recently made FZ? |
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Bought it around June last year I think. June or July.
This gun has all sorts of problems since putting it in Lots of light primer strikes with various ammo. Failure to feed, double feed, failure to eject, failure to go into battery etc. Might just scrap it and the crooked palmetto bcg and put a bcm bcg in. The bcm I have in my other gun hasn't been cleaned in about 10k rds and functions just fine. |
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You might try contacting FZ and see what they will do (not sure their warranty). But, you'd need to be able to definitely say it's the BCG (i.e. the gun functions perfectly with another BCG). If you're looking for a good deal on a NiB BCG, I just picked up a WMD NiB M16 BCG for $149.95 shipped from Joe Bob Outfitters. If you're mil/LEO you can take another 5% off that.
ETA: Or if you want to throw the dice with another FZ, Primary Arms has the FZ NiB M16 BCG for $99 shipped, lol. Personally, I'd advise against that, but, ya know... thought I'd throw it out there. |
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There seems to be some real QC problems with Fail Zero BCGs lately, at least from what I have seen. Dealers seem to be practically giving them away (saw one for $99 the other day). Lots of negative reviews recently as well, so it definitely could be the BCG. Is it a recently made FZ? Edit: Just thought of something in this thread that gets me curious. Two BCG's, an FZ and a PSA appear to have an issue in your build. Think about it. Though not impossible, those are not good odds that the issue must be the BCG's. I think further investigation by someone really knowledgeable with AR's might be a good idea who can physically inspect your gun and maybe even shoot it. OP, did I understand correctly that you also tried the BCM BCG or that you just have a BCM in another gun that has been trouble free? |
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Not sure I'd identify price drops in this current environment as a indicator of quality or lack thereof. All kinds of quality components are seeing price drops, probably due to the demise of the Hillary threat. I'm up to three FZ's now from one of my oldest to one about 6 weeks ago. My newest is in a 300BO build shot entirely suppressed. I haven't seen any change in appearance or function over the years. |
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Not sure I'd identify price drops in this current environment as a indicator of quality or lack thereof. All kinds of quality components are seeing price drops, probably due to the demise of the Hillary threat. I'm up to three FZ's now from one of my oldest to one about 6 weeks ago. My newest is in a 300BO build shot entirely suppressed. I haven't seen any change in appearance or function over the years. Edit: Just thought of something in this thread that gets me curious. Two BCG's, an FZ and a PSA appear to have an issue in your build. Think about it. Though not impossible, those are not good odds that the issue must be the BCG's. I think further investigation by someone really knowledgeable with AR's might be a good idea who can physically inspect your gun and maybe even shoot it. OP, did I understand correctly that you also tried the BCM BCG or that you just have a BCM in another gun that has been trouble free? The Psa bcg is out of spec and the fz is doing some kind of voodoo magic to cause problems. I haven't given up yet on it. I cleaned it once again and the entire gun as well. Maybe it just really doesn't like the ammo choices I have for it currently. Eta : anyone thinking of buying a fz and having second thoughts because of my thread, give them a chance for the right price imo. I have garbage luck with getting things like this. If all else fails I can probably get fz to replace it for me. |
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Is it possible the mag catch is out of spec ?.... perhaps to large and is forcing the mag into the bottom of the BCG ? Gettting a double feed in a AR is pretty uncommon. And just to be clear... you are saying that 2 rounds feed at once ? Or something else. yes, 2 rounds are trying to feed at the same time or it misfeeds, have had both happen multiple times. ETA: not my pic but ive been seeing a lot of this lately - 
both live rounds. |
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Got pics of the suspect bolt?
You mentioned gas key alignment issues earlier. Ruled that out already? You said PSA BCG was "out of spec". How so? Thinking out loud.... Since BCG is supposed to forcibly strip the top round off the magazine, two rounds means top round is being released from magazine before BCG begins the stripping action. If your scenario is like what you show in the sample picture, the BCG is properly stripping the round it finds at the top of the magazine. So the real question is "why is the magazine prematurely releasing a round, before the BCG begins its forward stripping motion?"  AR-15/M-16 Function Animation  Failed To Load Title |
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Got pics of the suspect bolt? You mentioned gas key alignment issues earlier. Ruled that out already? You said PSA BCG was "out of spec". How so? Thinking out loud.... Since BCG is supposed to forcibly strip the top round off the magazine, two rounds means top round is being released from magazine before BCG begins the stripping action. If your scenario is like what you show in the sample picture, the BCG is properly stripping the round it finds at the top of the magazine. So the real question is "why is the magazine prematurely releasing a round, before the BCG begins its forward stripping motion?"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSqYvWib1og
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtwhZj1_TlI |
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I agree, sounds like the first round is popping out of the mag and then the bolt strips the next round and pushes both into the chamber. Most search related info suggests a bad magazine or possible weak buffer spring/buffer too lite causing the buffer to hit the rear of the extension and jarr the round out of the mag ? never heard of that before. Quoted:
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Got pics of the suspect bolt? You mentioned gas key alignment issues earlier. Ruled that out already? You said PSA BCG was "out of spec". How so? Thinking out loud.... Since BCG is supposed to forcibly strip the top round off the magazine, two rounds means top round is being released from magazine before BCG begins the stripping action. If your scenario is like what you show in the sample picture, the BCG is properly stripping the round it finds at the top of the magazine. So the real question is "why is the magazine prematurely releasing a round, before the BCG begins its forward stripping motion?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSqYvWib1og
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtwhZj1_TlI |
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using the spikes t2 buffer and spring. swapped out the FZ and PSA bcg for a bravo company and its been good the past 300 rds. If it does not, take a photo of the bottom of the carrier and post it. Also a photo of the back of it where it comes into contact with the buffer. Did you buy this directly from FZ? Did it come with FZ packaging or is this a vendor that says they were plated by FZ? We need to find out what actually happened. In the interest of full disclosure, I own nothing made by FZ so I have no bias or ax to grind. My NiB BCG is WMD Guns. Still, we need to get to the bottom so that there is some closure about what was going on with that BCG. |
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Disassemble the FZ. Clean it thoroughly, lube it only very slightly, and try it again now. I'm betting that it runs fine. If it does not, take a photo of the bottom of the carrier and post it. Also a photo of the back of it where it comes into contact with the buffer. Did you buy this directly from FZ? Did it come with FZ packaging or is this a vendor that says they were plated by FZ? We need to find out what actually happened. In the interest of full disclosure, I own nothing made by FZ so I have no bias or ax to grind. My NiB BCG is WMD Guns. Still, we need to get to the bottom so that there is some closure about what was going on with that BCG. ill drop it back in and put another 300 or so rounds through it this week and see how it does with pics. bought it from primary arms, came with FZ packaging. |
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i thoroughly cleaned it several times with a light coat of slip 2000, still had problems. ill drop it back in and put another 300 or so rounds through it this week and see how it does with pics. bought it from primary arms, came with FZ packaging. I'm thinking that whatever was causing the problem may not have been BCG related and running a few mags through with the other BCG may have resolved that. If it still acts up, you definitely need to let FZ know about it. |
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Thanks. Is there any visible sign of wear on the bottom of the carrier or at the back where it actuates the buffer? NiB is very hard about Rockwell C 70-72 or so. I'm thinking that whatever was causing the problem may not have been BCG related and running a few mags through with the other BCG may have resolved that. If it still acts up, you definitely need to let FZ know about it. I'd love to get this figured out because then I can use the spare bcg as an excuse to turn it into another complete rifle lol. |
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