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Posted: 1/28/2012 8:13:16 PM EDT
| I was wondering what the longest is that people have shot accurately with their ar in 223? I got a prairie dog at 632 yards and a coyote at 576 yards with mine. I am looking to shoot further with my gun. I am hoping to shoot 1000 yards to 1500 yards at targets and maybe strech to 1760 yards (1 mile). I know alot of people are going to give me crap about this but I think with the right load for my gun it can be done. It has been done out of a bolt action rifle so why not out of an ar? |
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I agree its alot of distance to cover. With a factory hornady load out of my gun shooting a 1/2 inch 5 shot group at 100 yards ballistics tables say that at 1000 the bullet will drop 31.2 inches with a 1.5 second flight time. obviously this will have to be with no wind and because at that distance the bullet is only traveling around 1300 fps so any little wind will have and exponential effect on my shot.
As for my gun it is a 24 inch stainless bull barrel kit form model 1 sales. I have a 1:8 twist in the barrel. I have a nikon m223 3-12 power scope on there now but once i start shooting longer distances i will go to a higher power scope. I put in a 2 stage adjustable match trigger in my gun with it backed down to about 16 ounces. I know it is nothing fancy but the gun shoots. I also think it would be cool to see a cheap budget built ar be able to shoot the same distances accurately as the 5000 dollar bolt bench guns. |
| the round i was shooting at the prairie dog and coyote was hornady superformance match with a 75 grain bullet. I dont want people to think that I go shooting all my game at those distences because I dont. The prairie dog was a bet with my dad that weekend on who could hit one the furthest in one shot, and the coyote was already hit by a guy shooting a 243 but he had a bad shot so I took one to finish it off. |
| Shot out to 920 yards on 18"w x30"h steel with an 18" barrel shooting 77 gr Black Hills with almost boring consistency. Getting the scope set up and reading wind was the most challenging. Could actually get 2 rounds in the air at the same time and get 2 hits. I would love to try longer distances, just because. Go for it and let us know how it works out. |
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Quoted:
... I am hoping to shoot 1000 yards to 1500 yards at targets and maybe strech to 1760 yards (1 mile). ... I've hit a plate at 850 yards consistently when the wind was predictable (handloads). For game, I wouldn't try a shot past 500 yards. Your stretching it at 1000 yards. and at that range your .22 cal bullet will not have enough energy to penetrate a paper bag. If you are thinking of 1500 yards or the mile, I think it is time to get another upper in another caliber. (6mm, 6.5mm or a 7mm WSM or RSAUM in an AR-10. ...I know alot of people are going to give me crap about this but I think with the right load for my gun it can be done. It has been done out of a bolt action rifle so why not out of an ar?
I think you need to read a few books about ballistics. WARDOG |
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Sure you can do it. You just have to have a big target
http://www.researchpress.co.uk/longrange/sandyhook.htm |
| I understand that at the longer distances a .22 cal bullet will have very little energy but i am not looking to shoot any game animals at that distance. I have a steel plate that I will be shooting at so all the bullet has to do is take paint off the plate. As for building another upper in a bigger cal I would like to but dont have the money to do so right now and want to use what I have. |
| I couldn't hit a pdog at 600+ but I shoot 12" steel plates at 500m. I would take a shot at a coyote at 500m ...need to get a predator call one of these days. I'll try 6-700m some day with better ammo, but hit the plates with regularity @ 400m with m193. Anything over 700m would be worth investing in a different caliber. |
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I think you need to ask yourself one question:
What is the object of the exercise? I am not not sure I understand yours. If you want to know if a 223 can reach 1 mile, then yes it can If you want to know if you can hit anything, then yes, if your target is as big as the broadside of a barn, If you want to know if you can reliably kill any game "mercifully", then no, unless you can do a lucky head shot, but then that would make you a very irresponsible hunter because you will be wounding more games that will crawl away to die somewhere and there are many of those around Asking question in this forum is free but intelligent questions will get intelligent answers |
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I've pushed the little 223 a ways out of AR's. Though hunting groundhogs in fields where I can shoot a good ways I go with bolt guns. 22-250,6mm Rem. 243. 6mm REM has always been my favorite. 25/06 is a great round also.
theres only 1 hunting spot I feel comphy lettin loose with my 300 UM. 
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Quoted:
I understand that at the longer distances a .22 cal bullet will have very little energy but i am not looking to shoot any game animals at that distance. I have a steel plate that I will be shooting at so all the bullet has to do is take paint off the plate. As for building another upper in a bigger cal I would like to but dont have the money to do so right now and want to use what I have. How big is the steel plate? |
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I couldn't hit a pdog at 600+ but I shoot 12" steel plates at 500m. I would take a shot at a coyote at 500m ...need to get a predator call one of these days. I'll try 6-700m some day with better ammo, but hit the plates with regularity @ 400m with m193. Anything over 700m would be worth investing in a different caliber. What's the shortest barrel you would use to hit coyote between 600 and 700 yards and what grain ammo? I'm trying to set up a rifle for such a thing but I don't know what to get. |
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I understand that at the longer distances a .22 cal bullet will have very little energy but i am not looking to shoot any game animals at that distance. I have a steel plate that I will be shooting at so all the bullet has to do is take paint off the plate. As for building another upper in a bigger cal I would like to but dont have the money to do so right now and want to use what I have. I don't think you are understanding yet. When I suggested you read on ballistics, it's to educate yourself. The bullet needs to maintain a certain velocity related to it's mass, so it can continue to spin and maintain its aerodynamic stability. When the velocity reaches trans-sonic, it loses stability, begins to wobble, and then has the aerodynamics of a sideways, or backwards bullet. If your target is into the trans-sonic range of your cartridge + bullet B.C. it will NOT fly straight. The first sign is keyholing in your target. If your target is the side of a metal barn, sure it may take the paint off, but you are only going to hit it once in a while with large groups. Then, without understanding ballistics, you are going to blame the wind, sun, coriolis effect, curvature of the earth, the gun powder, primer, barrel, gun, your neighbors dog, and the Mayan calendar for missing the target. When the answer is simply that you don't undertand ballistics for the range you are shooting. |
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I understand that at the longer distances a .22 cal bullet will have very little energy but i am not looking to shoot any game animals at that distance. I have a steel plate that I will be shooting at so all the bullet has to do is take paint off the plate. As for building another upper in a bigger cal I would like to but dont have the money to do so right now and want to use what I have. I don't think you are understanding yet. When I suggested you read on ballistics, it's to educate yourself. The bullet needs to maintain a certain velocity related to it's mass, so it can continue to spin and maintain its aerodynamic stability. When the velocity reaches trans-sonic, it loses stability, begins to wobble, and then has the aerodynamics of a sideways, or backwards bullet. If your target is into the trans-sonic range of your cartridge + bullet B.C. it will NOT fly straight. The first sign is keyholing in your target. If your target is the side of a metal barn, sure it may take the paint off, but you are only going to hit it once in a while with large groups. Then, without understanding ballistics, you are going to blame the wind, sun, coriolis effect, curvature of the earth, the gun powder, primer, barrel, gun, your neighbors dog, and the Mayan calendar for missing the target. When the answer is simply that you don't undertand ballistics for the range you are shooting. basically once the bullet goes subsonic shit happens! and it's true! A 22-250 fast twist will do 1200 yds before droppin off. At least my load will |
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wardog
I am not writing off your advice on reading up on ballistics. This is not something that I am going to go out and give a try this afternoon or tomorrow. I know trying this will take a long time to do. I dont plan on finding a load that shoots well at 100 yards and throwing a target out at 1000 yards and letting the lead fly. I am going to do this stages. As for reading on ballistics I have done a little bit of it but not alot. The link that I posted above I think is a good read but you might think differently. In the article the author states that even though his load went sub sonic it still kept its stability. Im not saying that my load will and it may not but I am going to find out. What books or articles would you suggest reading? Im not discounting anyones imput. The majority of my shooting experience in the last 7 years had been in compedative 3d archery. I did shoot on a jr olympic shooting team for 5 years and went to colorado springs twice to shoot with the olympic training coaches. That was with .22 so i dont have the experience with shooting long range with an ar but I am not just joe shmoe coming off the street thinking that I can shoot a mile with my gun and any factory load. As for those that continue to say that it is unnethical to shoot at game that far with a 223 I agree with you. I am not doing this so that I can hunt, I am doing this to see what the limitations of my gun and my loads are. I dont suggest that if this is do able that anyone goes out and shoots game that far. I haven't hunted with a rifle in 10 years and I do not take ungodly shots at animals. |
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wardog ... What books or articles would you suggest reading? A Great book, but a little technical (hey, you have to jump in sometime) Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting Bryan Litz 2009 ISBN# 978-0-615-27661-8 Litz is the Chief ballistician for Berger Bullets. Great guy, highly intelligent, and quite a shooter. Quoted:
...As for those that continue to say that it is unnethical to shoot at game that far with a 223 I agree with you. I am not doing this so that I can hunt, I am doing this to see what the limitations of my gun and my loads are. I dont suggest that if this is do able that anyone goes out and shoots game that far. I haven't hunted with a rifle in 10 years and I do not take ungodly shots at animals. I don't think you are trying to hunt out to 1000 yards with the .223, If I did, I wouldn't be offering you any advice. I am an avid hunter and believe in "Beyond Fair Chase". I can see you are new here at ARFCOM. So I can't go back and read your posts about shooting or reloading to get a feel on your level of knowledge on long range shooting etc. Once you have the basics down, and freshened them up (your shooting team days), you have to learn about lmid-range out to 600 yards, then basic reloading, then intermediate reloading & shooting, then advanced reloading, then apply everything with a proven rifle, high quality optics, for long-range out to 1000 yards. Look at simple ballistic charts available on-line to see your bullet speed at given distances from t he muzzle. While you can eek out more performance with handloads, physics is physics. They aint gonna change because you want to do something different. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. I imagine hundreds of shooters with much more experience than you and I put together have pondered and tried what you want to attempt. Hopefully they performed their experiments in a scientific manner and recorded their results for our education. Try the book and read it a few times. Then get another book on the same topic but by a different author for another perspective. I hope all of this helps. WARDOG |
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good stuff from gundog and wardog. I like many here step up in calibur past the little 223 for any long range stuff. interesting subject though! I got a varmint rig but my thinking on it is as a 500-600 yard groundhog/yote gun. I'm not turning it into a single shot for 80 grainers to punch paper. I got a Savage 10FP for that. |
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I agree its alot of distance to cover. With a factory hornady load out of my gun shooting a 1/2 inch 5 shot group at 100 yards ballistics tables say that at 1000 the bullet will drop 31.2 inches with a 1.5 second flight time. obviously this will have to be with no wind and because at that distance the bullet is only traveling around 1300 fps so any little wind will have and exponential effect on my shot. As for my gun it is a 24 inch stainless bull barrel kit form model 1 sales. I have a 1:8 twist in the barrel. I have a nikon m223 3-12 power scope on there now but once i start shooting longer distances i will go to a higher power scope. I put in a 2 stage adjustable match trigger in my gun with it backed down to about 16 ounces. I know it is nothing fancy but the gun shoots. I also think it would be cool to see a cheap budget built ar be able to shoot the same distances accurately as the 5000 dollar bolt bench guns. Not sure where you got this info from. From a 223, even the best .22 cal bullets with high BC will fall 50+ inches by 500 yards. At 1,000 yards you're looking at upwards of 400 inches of drop from a 100 yard zero. Maybe you meant to write MOA instead of inches, in which case you'd still be off more than 10 MOA at 1,000 yards. |
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I agree its alot of distance to cover. With a factory hornady load out of my gun shooting a 1/2 inch 5 shot group at 100 yards ballistics tables say that at 1000 the bullet will drop 31.2 inches with a 1.5 second flight time. obviously this will have to be with no wind and because at that distance the bullet is only traveling around 1300 fps so any little wind will have and exponential effect on my shot. As for my gun it is a 24 inch stainless bull barrel kit form model 1 sales. I have a 1:8 twist in the barrel. I have a nikon m223 3-12 power scope on there now but once i start shooting longer distances i will go to a higher power scope. I put in a 2 stage adjustable match trigger in my gun with it backed down to about 16 ounces. I know it is nothing fancy but the gun shoots. I also think it would be cool to see a cheap budget built ar be able to shoot the same distances accurately as the 5000 dollar bolt bench guns. Not sure where you got this info from. From a 223, even the best .22 cal bullets with high BC will fall 50+ inches by 500 yards. At 1,000 yards you're looking at upwards of 400 inches of drop from a 100 yard zero. Maybe you meant to write MOA instead of inches, in which case you'd still be off more than 10 MOA at 1,000 yards. I was just looking at a trajectory chart for 308 vs 223 and they were only about 2" apart at 500 yards. Energy levels however.....forget about it. 200 lb/ft vs 1000... |
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good stuff from gundog and wardog. I like many here step up in calibur past the little 223 for any long range stuff. interesting subject though! I got a varmint rig but my thinking on it is as a 500-600 yard groundhog/yote gun. I'm not turning it into a single shot for 80 grainers to punch paper. I got a Savage 10FP for that. yes. Thats the point. You would have to single load the VLD'S. I use the big VLD's in my Savage 22-250, Not my AR's |
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