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Posted: 7/14/2016 8:43:46 AM EDT
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I have read that the colt 6920 is as close to military misspec that you can get.
My questions I thought all ar15 where milspec? Can someone educate me on this? I know the buffer tub are milspec or commercial. thanks |
| Some of the most convoluted discussions I've seen on arfcom involve the term "milspec"...or "mil-spec"...or...well, you see it's already getting confusing. Just do a google search for "what is ar15 milspec", and your eyes will cross after an hour or two...or maybe in just a couple of minutes. Honestly, I think all most of us care about is that the components we use will fit from one AR15 to the other with reasonable certainty. While that might be the oversimplification of the century, I think it's at the heart of what makes the AR15 the civilian success that it is. Most all of us want everything on an AR15 to fit on every other AR15 in existence...in a perfect world. While the precise, absolute definition of milspec involves so much more, IMO all it really boils down for most AR folks is that stuff interchanges and fits...like Legos. |
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Some of the most convoluted discussions I've seen on arfcom involve the term "milspec"...or "mil-spec"...or...well, you see it's already getting confusing. Just do a google search for "what is ar15 milspec", and your eyes will cross after an hour or two...or maybe in just a couple of minutes. Honestly, I think all most of us care about is that the components we use will fit from one AR15 to the other with reasonable certainty. While that might be the oversimplification of the century, I think it's at the heart of what makes the AR15 the civilian success that it is. Most all of us want everything on an AR15 to fit on every other AR15 in existence...in a perfect world. While the precise, absolute definition of milspec involves so much more, IMO all it really boils down for most AR folks is that stuff interchanges and fits...like Legos. There is also the arguable belief that somehow any part labeled "mil-spec" is superior to any other like part not labeled "mil-spec" . . . |
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There is also the arguable belief that somehow any part labeled "mil-spec" is superior to any other like part not labeled "mil-spec" . . . Quoted:
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Some of the most convoluted discussions I've seen on arfcom involve the term "milspec"...or "mil-spec"...or...well, you see it's already getting confusing. Just do a google search for "what is ar15 milspec", and your eyes will cross after an hour or two...or maybe in just a couple of minutes. Honestly, I think all most of us care about is that the components we use will fit from one AR15 to the other with reasonable certainty. While that might be the oversimplification of the century, I think it's at the heart of what makes the AR15 the civilian success that it is. Most all of us want everything on an AR15 to fit on every other AR15 in existence...in a perfect world. While the precise, absolute definition of milspec involves so much more, IMO all it really boils down for most AR folks is that stuff interchanges and fits...like Legos. There is also the arguable belief that somehow any part labeled "mil-spec" is superior to any other like part not labeled "mil-spec" . . . You mean the cream cheese poly lower isn't as "good" as a 7075 forged lower? Oh the humanity! 
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You mean the cream cheese poly lower isn't as "good" as a 7075 forged lower? Oh the humanity!
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Some of the most convoluted discussions I've seen on arfcom involve the term "milspec"...or "mil-spec"...or...well, you see it's already getting confusing. Just do a google search for "what is ar15 milspec", and your eyes will cross after an hour or two...or maybe in just a couple of minutes. Honestly, I think all most of us care about is that the components we use will fit from one AR15 to the other with reasonable certainty. While that might be the oversimplification of the century, I think it's at the heart of what makes the AR15 the civilian success that it is. Most all of us want everything on an AR15 to fit on every other AR15 in existence...in a perfect world. While the precise, absolute definition of milspec involves so much more, IMO all it really boils down for most AR folks is that stuff interchanges and fits...like Legos. There is also the arguable belief that somehow any part labeled "mil-spec" is superior to any other like part not labeled "mil-spec" . . . You mean the cream cheese poly lower isn't as "good" as a 7075 forged lower? Oh the humanity!
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of a 'mil-spec' HTP/MPI bolt vs a quality bolt (but not 'mil-spec) from places like Knight's.... |
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Well, I was thinking more along the lines of a 'mil-spec' HTP/MPI bolt vs a quality bolt (but not 'mil-spec) from places like Knight's.... Quoted:
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Some of the most convoluted discussions I've seen on arfcom involve the term "milspec"...or "mil-spec"...or...well, you see it's already getting confusing. Just do a google search for "what is ar15 milspec", and your eyes will cross after an hour or two...or maybe in just a couple of minutes. Honestly, I think all most of us care about is that the components we use will fit from one AR15 to the other with reasonable certainty. While that might be the oversimplification of the century, I think it's at the heart of what makes the AR15 the civilian success that it is. Most all of us want everything on an AR15 to fit on every other AR15 in existence...in a perfect world. While the precise, absolute definition of milspec involves so much more, IMO all it really boils down for most AR folks is that stuff interchanges and fits...like Legos. There is also the arguable belief that somehow any part labeled "mil-spec" is superior to any other like part not labeled "mil-spec" . . . You mean the cream cheese poly lower isn't as "good" as a 7075 forged lower? Oh the humanity!
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of a 'mil-spec' HTP/MPI bolt vs a quality bolt (but not 'mil-spec) from places like Knight's.... I definitely get your point...but...all that most of the unwashed masses really care about when they hear "milspec"...me included...is "will it fit". I think the milspec discussion is kind of like one of those urban dictionary definitions. Perhaps while not technically, scientifically correct, it's basically become an assessment that components A through Z will fit on just about any AR15. Now...if you're trying to build a really dedicated replica of a particular military AR, this is going to be more of an issue. I get it. I also get the quality or superiority element in your statement...and of course the poly lower I jokingly mentioned can never be milspec regardless of the exacting dimensions. It's made of an inappropriate material. However, when someone says "milspec poly lower", I think we all know the intent of the statement...and maybe that's more useful than getting into the minutia of bureaucratic regulations not required by civilian use. |
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Buffer tubes and lowers (in relation to buffer tubes) vary between mil spec and commercial too...
Some companies have special FCG pin hole sizes also. I like staying with mil spec dimensions anyway... I think it is kind of important to have something of a standard for a lot of it so we don't devolve and become like AR-10's where you have to worry about if you are compatible with this brand or that brand of gun. But with research I am not afraid to color outside of the lines with material... neither of my bolts are C158. But I made sure they were as good or better material before I got them though. |
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Buffer tubes and lowers (in relation to buffer tubes) vary between mil spec and commercial too... Some companies have special FCG pin hole sizes also. I like staying with mil spec dimensions anyway... I think it is kind of important to have something of a standard for a lot of it so we don't devolve and become like AR-10's where you have to worry about if you are compatible with this brand or that brand of gun. But with research I am not afraid to color outside of the lines with material... neither of my bolts are C158. But I made sure they were as good or better material before I got them though. On that FCG pin size deal, does the 6920 that the OP mentioned have the "most common" pin size we see out there or something different? I've never had a Colt, but I thought I sometimes see some Colts mentioned here that have a less common FCG pin size...or maybe I just read it incorrectly. |
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On that FCG pin size deal, does the 6920 that the OP mentioned have the "most common" pin size we see out there or something different? I've never had a Colt, but I thought I sometimes see some Colts mentioned here that have a less common FCG pin size...or maybe I just read it incorrectly. Quoted:
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Buffer tubes and lowers (in relation to buffer tubes) vary between mil spec and commercial too... Some companies have special FCG pin hole sizes also. I like staying with mil spec dimensions anyway... I think it is kind of important to have something of a standard for a lot of it so we don't devolve and become like AR-10's where you have to worry about if you are compatible with this brand or that brand of gun. But with research I am not afraid to color outside of the lines with material... neither of my bolts are C158. But I made sure they were as good or better material before I got them though. On that FCG pin size deal, does the 6920 that the OP mentioned have the "most common" pin size we see out there or something different? I've never had a Colt, but I thought I sometimes see some Colts mentioned here that have a less common FCG pin size...or maybe I just read it incorrectly. I have only read about it, I have never encountered it. |
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Quoted: Buffer tubes and lowers (in relation to buffer tubes) vary between mil spec and commercial too... Only the buffer tubes differ with the commercial/milspec sizing. The threads on both are the same so there is only one spec for the lower with regard to the extension threads. |
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Only the buffer tubes differ with the commercial/milspec sizing. The threads on both are the same so there is only one spec for the lower with regard to the extension threads. Quoted:
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Buffer tubes and lowers (in relation to buffer tubes) vary between mil spec and commercial too... Only the buffer tubes differ with the commercial/milspec sizing. The threads on both are the same so there is only one spec for the lower with regard to the extension threads. Buffer tubes can also vary in which alloy is used, and the method the threads are cut or rolled also varies too. Your "mil-spec" diameter tube can be made of non-spec alloy and have non-spec threads. |
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I have read that the colt 6920 is as close to military misspec that you can get. My questions I thought all ar15 where milspec? Can someone educate me on this? I know the buffer tub are milspec or commercial. thanks While it is technically true that no AR-15 is completely mil-spec there are some that use more mil-spec components than others. Usually the manufacturer will list in the description if certain components are made to the designated mil-spec or not. As mentioned the 16" barrel is not a mil-spec length but the material it's made from can be. The lower receiver may not be milled exactly like the M16 (i.e. mil-spec) but the material and most dimensions will be. If anything it will usually have a little more material around the safety and rear takedown pin with the rest being the same. See below for a picture showing the difference between a mil-spec and commercial buffer tube. (ETA: also, what Moondog said above) 
Me personally, I like mil-spec parts. While the gov't may not make the best decisions all/most of the time at least the mil-spec parts have been tested by the largest testing pool (U.S. military) of any other type of part. That's good enough for me, but you will have to make up your own mind if it's good enough. Some, like Daniel Defense, advertise better than mil-spec. Which it may or may not be. |
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I have read that the colt 6920 is as close to military misspec that you can get. My questions I thought all ar15 where milspec? Can someone educate me on this? I know the buffer tub are milspec or commercial. thanks Colts (civilian market) are the closest thing to milspec. And yes, the TDP. |
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Colts (civilian market) are the closest thing to milspec. And yes, the TDP. Quoted:
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I have read that the colt 6920 is as close to military misspec that you can get. My questions I thought all ar15 where milspec? Can someone educate me on this? I know the buffer tub are milspec or commercial. thanks Colts (civilian market) are the closest thing to milspec. And yes, the TDP. Pure opinion. No factual basis to prove it. No civilian ARs are made to military specifications, nor the TDP. Not even Colts. Some civilian ARs may use some small parts from a manufacturer that are the same as what is sold to Colt and FN, but that does not make the AR mil-spec. The term "mil-spec" is so very convoluted these days. It has become the buzz phrase that many throw around all the while never completely understanding what it is they are talking about. |
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Pure opinion. No factual basis to prove it. No civilian ARs are made to military specifications, nor the TDP. Not even Colts. Some civilian ARs may use some small parts from a manufacturer that are the same as what is sold to Colt and FN, but that does not make the AR mil-spec. The term "mil-spec" is so very convoluted these days. It has become the buzz phrase that many throw around all the while never completely understanding what it is they are talking about. Quoted:
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I have read that the colt 6920 is as close to military misspec that you can get. My questions I thought all ar15 where milspec? Can someone educate me on this? I know the buffer tub are milspec or commercial. thanks Colts (civilian market) are the closest thing to milspec. And yes, the TDP. Pure opinion. No factual basis to prove it. No civilian ARs are made to military specifications, nor the TDP. Not even Colts. Some civilian ARs may use some small parts from a manufacturer that are the same as what is sold to Colt and FN, but that does not make the AR mil-spec. The term "mil-spec" is so very convoluted these days. It has become the buzz phrase that many throw around all the while never completely understanding what it is they are talking about. Quite true. Those with the idea that "all things MIL-SPEC" are the best in the world and cannot be surpassed by mere commercial products have never had to use "mil-spec" toilet paper... They don't realize that a 'mil-spec' is just a specification - a document describing or identifying something precisely or of stating a precise requirement. The specification allows the accuracy to be 5.6 inches, extreme spread, at 100 yards. Would you be happy with that? But, it is 'mil-spec'. The specification allows for a 9.5 lb trigger pull. Would you be happy with that? But, it is 'mil-spec'. In the first 6,000 rounds fired, would you be happy with 9 malfunctions and 2 broken parts? But, it is 'mil-spec'. After 6,000 rounds fired, the 10 round group size opens up to 7 inches extreme spread, would you be happy? But, it is 'mil-spec'. |
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Mil-spec= Using a quality 7075 forged receiver set.
Using a quality barrel, proper steel, chrome lining, 1/7. I use a Colt 14.5 Socom on my carbine. Quality Mil receiver etx. Quality BCG w/158 bolt. Quality LPG. Carbine gas system. All of these parts are sold by many companies, I suspect a lot sell the same parts from the same manufacture for different prices. Most all of these Mil-spec parts can be upgraded buy using better parts, like Geissele triggers or custom barrels, coated bolts and so on. Mid length seems popular now and maybe better the a carbine Mil-spec gas system. Stocks, rails, sights, grips are all a matter of personal choice. A lot of quality to pick from unless you want to stay Mil-spec. Most important is how your rifle was put together. Gas key staking and correct assembly. All the parts are there to get as close to Mil-spec as you can. Like having a purebred dog without the paperwork. |
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Pure opinion. No factual basis to prove it. No civilian ARs are made to military specifications, nor the TDP. Not even Colts. Some civilian ARs may use some small parts from a manufacturer that are the same as what is sold to Colt and FN, but that does not make the AR mil-spec. The term "mil-spec" is so very convoluted these days. It has become the buzz phrase that many throw around all the while never completely understanding what it is they are talking about. Quoted:
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I have read that the colt 6920 is as close to military misspec that you can get. My questions I thought all ar15 where milspec? Can someone educate me on this? I know the buffer tub are milspec or commercial. thanks Colts (civilian market) are the closest thing to milspec. And yes, the TDP. Pure opinion. No factual basis to prove it. No civilian ARs are made to military specifications, nor the TDP. Not even Colts. Some civilian ARs may use some small parts from a manufacturer that are the same as what is sold to Colt and FN, but that does not make the AR mil-spec. The term "mil-spec" is so very convoluted these days. It has become the buzz phrase that many throw around all the while never completely understanding what it is they are talking about. Colt doesnt have separate plants for civilian and military production. A Colt BCG, upper, etc. may end up on an m4 or an AR. The part/spec is the same, the model might be different. That cannot be said for any other manufacturer. For instance, FN has separate plants. Kac has separate production lines. So yeah, Colt is the closest you will get to the "real" thing. |
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Colt doesnt have separate plants for civilian and military production. A Colt BCG, upper, etc. may end up on an m4 or an AR. The part/spec is the same, the model might be different. That cannot be said for any other manufacturer. For instance, FN has separate plants. Kac has separate production lines. So yeah, Colt is the closest you will get to the "real" thing. Quoted:
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I have read that the colt 6920 is as close to military misspec that you can get. My questions I thought all ar15 where milspec? Can someone educate me on this? I know the buffer tub are milspec or commercial. thanks Colts (civilian market) are the closest thing to milspec. And yes, the TDP. Pure opinion. No factual basis to prove it. No civilian ARs are made to military specifications, nor the TDP. Not even Colts. Some civilian ARs may use some small parts from a manufacturer that are the same as what is sold to Colt and FN, but that does not make the AR mil-spec. The term "mil-spec" is so very convoluted these days. It has become the buzz phrase that many throw around all the while never completely understanding what it is they are talking about. Colt doesnt have separate plants for civilian and military production. A Colt BCG, upper, etc. may end up on an m4 or an AR. The part/spec is the same, the model might be different. That cannot be said for any other manufacturer. For instance, FN has separate plants. Kac has separate production lines. So yeah, Colt is the closest you will get to the "real" thing. Weren't they putting plastic buffers in their civilian line at some point? In any case like I said before, Colt is one of the most responsible, if not the most responsible brand in producing non-milspec (in the parts-compatibility sense) ARs with resized pins and neutered BCG+hammers and all. |
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Weren't they putting plastic buffers in their civilian line at some point? In any case like I said before, Colt is one of the most responsible, if not the most responsible brand in producing non-milspec (in the parts-compatibility sense) ARs with resized pins and neutered BCG+hammers and all. Let's not forget the HBAR barrel profile. It was marketed as a stiff heavy barrel for longer distance shooting, when it was more likely a cost-cutting measure to save time and labor by not turning the barrel down to gov't profile dimensions. |
| To me it's "minspec," as it is the minimum I will put in anything of mine. Most aftermarket stuff from respected makers of parts and rifles far exceed the quality of a milspec part. Will they last? Sure, but nobody tosses their Timney or their Hogue or their billet receiver to go BACKWARD to milspec. Do I use a little bit of it? A little, but not much. There's just better options for about everything made. Only time it matters anyway is for a "clone" of this model or that. |
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To me, Milspec has become more of a marketing term, along with the word Tactical....
Its something that AR parts makers are going to put on their packaging to convince consumers that their product is built to Military Specs... For the most part, its a complete load of BS.... I dont buy into it very much. As long as the parts fit, function properly, and are of decent quality, thats all I care about... |
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