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Posted: 2/8/2009 9:06:32 AM EDT
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I am looking to also get a set of tactical pants & shirt/jacket.
I have been told RipStop is a technology to focus on... Is there any other things that new Ripstop gear comes with? What about a gotex lining? What are my options here? Def looking for cargo type pants and similar functiong shirt/jacket. |
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I wouldn't call it the best, but it can be nice in hot weather. When I was in the military I always preferred the 100% cotton BDUs - they just seemed to hold up better.
Goretex outer wear generally belongs in an entirely different category than what you are referring to. |
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Ripstop is just a term referring to the weave in a fabric. A ripstop fabric has a thicker weave every 1/4" or so that makes it harder to have long rips when your garments gets tangled in something. It's available in many different fabrics but the most common are the 50/50 NYCO used primarily by the military, 65/35 Poly/Cotton used primarily by law enforcement and the 100% cotton which was used in the "summer weight" BDU.
Ripstop looks like this close-up: 
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So what blend of material is the most sought after?
Is there an "all weather"? Something that is good & durable for all conditions? I would plan on wearing some type of under armour under neath the pants & jacket. What do you guys suggest? I dont know if I want a jacket of some kind or some kind of shirt? What is really available? I'm going to have under armour on as I mentioned and will be using a Delta 5 vest, but I need somethign in between. Not really a jacket since I dont need the pockets since I have the vest? |
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50/50 NYCO in either a twill or ripstop is about as versatile as you can get, and my preferred choice for year round use. Are you looking for a specific pattern/color? Need to start there first, then examine the options available in the pattern/color you want. Alright what exactly is NYCO and is it common in this 50/50 blend? What is the difference between twill & ripstop? I would def prefer something that is versatile and can be worn year round in hot & cold weather. (with the added help of the under armour in the winter and perhaps also the summer) I am looking for just all black. |
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NYCO is a nylon & cotton blend. It generally only comes in a 50/50 ratio (50% nylon and 50 cotton) to my knowledge (there are exceptions). It is available in both a ripstop, and twill version. Ripstop, has small lines running through it that form a checkerboard pattern in the material, which helps to deter the material from further ripping/tearing, should it get a rip or tear in it. See uniformguy's post above. Twill is just a smooth material without the ripstop lines.
If you want a year round, multi purpose material, the 50/50 NYCO ripstop is personal first choice. Any of the various polyester/cotton blends will work though. The higher the poly content, the "tougher" the material will be. The higher the cotton content, the more "comfortable" the material will be. Just avoid 100% cotton. In my experience/opinion, it sucks in any environment. It fades, it shrinks, it tears more easily, and it holds moisture. In the summer when you sweat (or otherwise get wet), that means your covered in a layer of hot moisture that doesnt want to evaporate and let the material dry out, keeping you hot, and causing the material to stick to you. In the winter, your covered in cold moisture that doesnt want to evaporate keeping you cold. Nylon and Polyester dont hold water, thus the material dries out much faster. In the winter this means you stay warmer, in the summer, you stay cooler. I dont know of anyone making all black in a NYCO material. Just my personal thoughts/experience, others may differ. |
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NYCO is a nylon & cotton blend. It only comes in a 50/50 ratio (50% nylon and 50 cotton) to my knowledge. It is available in both a ripstop, and twill version. Ripstop, has small lines running through it that form a checkerboard pattern in the material, which helps to deter the material from further ripping/tearing, should it get a rip or tear in it. See uniformguy's post above. Twill is just a smooth material without the ripstop lines. If you want a year round, multi purpose material, the 50/50 NYCO ripstop is personal first choice. Any of the various polyester/cotton blends will work though. The higher the poly content, the "tougher" the material will be. The higher the cotton content, the more "comfortable" the material will be. Just avoid 100% cotton. In my experience/opinion, it sucks in any environment. It fades, it shrinks, it tears more easily, and it holds moisture. In the summer when you sweat (or otherwise get wet), that means your covered in a layer of hot moisture that doesnt want to evaporate and let the material dry out, keeping you hot, and causing the material to stick to you. In the winter, your covered in cold moisture that doesnt want to evaporate keeping you cold. Nylon and Polyester dont hold water, thus the material dries out much faster. In the winter this means you stay warmer, in the summer, you stay cooler. I dont know of anyone making all black in a NYCO material. Just my personal thoughts/experience, others may differ. Yeah this material sounds like something I want. There has to be someone making it in black.... and I want a company that makes high quality gear, I dont want junk. Is there any brands in particular I should be looking at to try and find a top quality pair of this 50/50 NYCO? |
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Propper would be my first choice, but they dont have the black in a 50/50 NYCO that I'm aware of. They do have it in a 65/35 Poly/Cotton ripstop though. 50/50 NYCO is typically used by the military because of the ability to have NIR technology in the camouflage patterns. Law enforcement typically goes with the 65/35 poly/cotton because it is less expensive and has a similar feel. Letting the cat out of the bag, I can tell you that we (Propper) now have a Tactical Trouser in a lightweight 65/35 poly/cotton ripstop that is now starting to hit the shelves in six colors. We also made some minor improvements over the original Tactical Trouser that was made of 65/35 poly/cotton canvas. |
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Propper would be my first choice, but they dont have the black in a 50/50 NYCO that I'm aware of. They do have it in a 65/35 Poly/Cotton ripstop though. 50/50 NYCO is typically used by the military because of the ability to have NIR technology in the camouflage patterns. Law enforcement typically goes with the 65/35 poly/cotton because it is less expensive and has a similar feel. Correct. Letting the cat out of the bag, I can tell you that we (Propper) now have a Tactical Trouser in a lightweight 65/35 poly/cotton ripstop that is now starting to hit the shelves in six colors. We also made some minor improvements over the original Tactical Trouser that was made of 65/35 poly/cotton canvas.
Hmm. Very interesting. Cant wait to check them out. |
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Propper would be my first choice, but they dont have the black in a 50/50 NYCO that I'm aware of. They do have it in a 65/35 Poly/Cotton ripstop though. 50/50 NYCO is typically used by the military because of the ability to have NIR technology in the camouflage patterns. Law enforcement typically goes with the 65/35 poly/cotton because it is less expensive and has a similar feel. Letting the cat out of the bag, I can tell you that we (Propper) now have a Tactical Trouser in a lightweight 65/35 poly/cotton ripstop that is now starting to hit the shelves in six colors. We also made some minor improvements over the original Tactical Trouser that was made of 65/35 poly/cotton canvas. So is it the actual blend of the 50/50 NYCO that makes this particular ripstop material stay cool/dry/warm? Or does the 50/50 blend come into play with just the feel? I'm only looking for black, but this NIR sounds kinda neat. So is there anywhere out there at all that has these black 50/50 ripstop with or with out this NIR? |
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Propper would be my first choice, but they dont have the black in a 50/50 NYCO that I'm aware of. They do have it in a 65/35 Poly/Cotton ripstop though. 50/50 NYCO is typically used by the military because of the ability to have NIR technology in the camouflage patterns. Law enforcement typically goes with the 65/35 poly/cotton because it is less expensive and has a similar feel. Letting the cat out of the bag, I can tell you that we (Propper) now have a Tactical Trouser in a lightweight 65/35 poly/cotton ripstop that is now starting to hit the shelves in six colors. We also made some minor improvements over the original Tactical Trouser that was made of 65/35 poly/cotton canvas. So is it the actual blend of the 50/50 NYCO that makes this particular ripstop material stay cool/dry/warm? Or does the 50/50 blend come into play with just the feel? I'm only looking for black, but this NIR sounds kinda neat. So is there anywhere out there at all that has these black 50/50 ripstop with or with out this NIR? NIR is only used in the military because it makes the garment appear at the same radiance levels as the surrounding terrain when someone is viewed through night-vision goggles (NVGs). Because the common criminal doesn't go around doing crime wearing NVGs, law enforcement doesn't need it. It should also be noted that NIR in only included in government-approved fabric that is manufactured specifically for the military. So your military issue ACU, ABU, CWU/27P, Gore-Tex Outerwear (and their commercial counterparts approved for military use) will have this technology. Other garments that are not used by the military would not contain NIR technology. The garment doesn't look any different to the naked eye. For example, we make the CWU/27P flight suit in Tan, Sage Green and Black. However, the black does not have NIR technology because it is not a "military" garment. As far as the 50/50 NYCO, it all depends on the weight of the fabric. For example, the current ABU top is considered too heavy by Air Force personnel in the field, so the Air Force is following the lead of the Marines in developing a top with a lighter version of 50/50 NYCO. As a result, both the AF and the Marines will have a uniform top that is made of a lighter 50/50 NYCO fabric than their trousers. Both the top and bottom will be 50/50 NYCO but the trousers will seem "heavier" than the tops. The cool/dry/warm properties of the garment depends on the "weight" of the fabric itself. |
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Propper would be my first choice, but they dont have the black in a 50/50 NYCO that I'm aware of. They do have it in a 65/35 Poly/Cotton ripstop though. 50/50 NYCO is typically used by the military because of the ability to have NIR technology in the camouflage patterns. Law enforcement typically goes with the 65/35 poly/cotton because it is less expensive and has a similar feel. Letting the cat out of the bag, I can tell you that we (Propper) now have a Tactical Trouser in a lightweight 65/35 poly/cotton ripstop that is now starting to hit the shelves in six colors. We also made some minor improvements over the original Tactical Trouser that was made of 65/35 poly/cotton canvas. So is it the actual blend of the 50/50 NYCO that makes this particular ripstop material stay cool/dry/warm? Or does the 50/50 blend come into play with just the feel? I'm only looking for black, but this NIR sounds kinda neat. So is there anywhere out there at all that has these black 50/50 ripstop with or with out this NIR? NIR is only used in the military because it makes the garment appear at the same radiance levels as the surrounding terrain when someone is viewed through night-vision goggles (NVGs). Because the common criminal doesn't go around doing crime wearing NVGs, law enforcement doesn't need it. It should also be noted that NIR in only included in government-approved fabric that is manufactured specifically for the military. So your military issue ACU, ABU, CWU/27P, Gore-Tex Outerwear (and their commercial counterparts approved for military use) will have this technology. Other garments that are not used by the military would not contain NIR technology. The garment doesn't look any different to the naked eye. For example, we make the CWU/27P flight suit in Tan, Sage Green and Black. However, the black does not have NIR technology because it is not a "military" garment. As far as the 50/50 NYCO, it all depends on the weight of the fabric. For example, the current ABU top is considered too heavy by Air Force personnel in the field, so the Air Force is following the lead of the Marines in developing a top with a lighter version of 50/50 NYCO. As a result, both the AF and the Marines will have a uniform top that is made of a lighter 50/50 NYCO fabric than their trousers. Both the top and bottom will be 50/50 NYCO but the trousers will seem "heavier" than the tops. The cool/dry/warm properties of the garment depends on the "weight" of the fabric itself. Hmm. So what is better/durable? 50/50 NYCO in a lighter material Or a 65/35 in regular material? Should I just forget about 50/50 NYCO or is it out there some where in black? |
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I've got some 5.11's that are comfortabe...a couple in rip-stop and a couple in twill..
the rip-stop is definately "cooler" in hot weather because of its weave and 65-35 poly to cotton raito the twill seem heavier duty but are 100% cotton and if wet they are gonna suck I can't wait to try out some of TAD Gear's Force 10 pants...if they are as good as their jackets it will be worth the price of admission 
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I've got some 5.11's that are comfortabe...a couple in rip-stop and a couple in twill.. the rip-stop is definately "cooler" in hot weather because of its weave and 65-35 poly to cotton raito the twill seem heavier duty but are 100% cotton and if wet they are gonna suck I can't wait to try out some of TAD Gear's Force 10 pants...if they are as good as their jackets it will be worth the price of admission What is the ratio for these new TAD pants and do they come in black? So does the 50/50 NYCO iron better than the 65/35? So am I just SOL for find a 50/50 NYCO in black? I dont care the price as long as they are high quality. |
| Well, just to point out... black really does suck. Its hot. It stands out big time. There is a reason its nicknames "target indicator black". If you just want something other than "camo" why not go with OD green, Ranger green, Foliage green, or my favorite of Khaki/Coyote. All far better than plain black in every aspect, and there are better material choices as well. Just my $.02. |
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Well, just to point out... black really does suck. Its hot. It stands out big time. There is a reason its nicknames "target indicator black". If you just want something other than "camo" why not go with OD green, Ranger green, Foliage green, or my favorite of Khaki/Coyote. All far better than plain black in every aspect, and there are better material choices as well. Just my $.02. Well Ideally, I'd like a pair of both. I dont know what color camo I would get, I have to see them all again in person to see which one I really like at the time. I would be leaning something more along the foliage or something. Something good for the woods. So I will be able to find the 50/50 in all of these colors, they will just not be the NIR is that correct? I would still really like to get a black set. Am I running into a totally dead wall with it coming in 50/50? (I will opt for the 65/35 if its my only choice in the color, but will hunt down the 50/50 if its at all possible.) |
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Well, just to point out... black really does suck. Its hot. It stands out big time. There is a reason its nicknames "target indicator black". If you just want something other than "camo" why not go with OD green, Ranger green, Foliage green, or my favorite of Khaki/Coyote. All far better than plain black in every aspect, and there are better material choices as well. Just my $.02. Well Ideally, I'd like a pair of both. I dont know what color camo I would get, I have to see them all again in person to see which one I really like at the time. I would be leaning something more along the foliage or something. Something good for the woods. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=10&t=256386 |
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Out of curiosity, ACUS...
Who makes military approved ACUs? What is the fabric construction? I need more, and I know I can buy them from Ranger Joes, etc... but I'm curious if Tru-Spec or propper make milspec ACUs. Also, who makes a BDU cut in ACU pattern? I'd love to get a pair and have them modded similar to the "cool guy SOCOM BDUs/DCUs" I always see SF guys wearing. I like the functionmality of the ACU unifrom, but hate how they wear. I'm planning on getting my BDUs and DCUs modded with shoulder pockets, calf pockets, etc.. I also like Velcro sleeve pockets, but hate velcro on all the rest of the uniform. HEY PROPPER, TRU-SEPC!!! MAKE OFF THE SHELF SOCOM VERSIONS OF BDUS!!! See a version made by Spec-War Gear: 
The problem with spec-war gear is it's a lot more expensive than uniforms made by propper or tru-spec. Please??? |
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Propper makes the Milspec ACUs in the 50/50NYCO Ripstop and FR-ACUs in Defender M commercially with NIR. They're the same ones as the issued version except that the tags are different (no gov't contract numbers) and they're made in the Dominican Republic. Everything else is identical. Propper also made a BDU Coat/Trouser in Universal Pattern but that was discontinued over a year ago.
We still have the Woodland BDUs and Desert DCUs in the 50/50 NYCO but these are the standard issue version, not the SOCOM versions. We're keeping them around because many units are still using Woodland/Desert and the official wear out date for those is still a year away in some branches. We don't make the SOCOM versions because Propper manufacturing lines make uniforms 5-10K at a time in various sizes. There's just not enough demand to justify it, expecially when all lines are operating at full capacity with stuff like the military-issued uniforms (ACU, ABU, MCCUU, etc.) |
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Out of curiosity, ACUS... Who makes military approved ACUs? What is the fabric construction? I need more, and I know I can buy them from Ranger Joes, etc... but I'm curious if Tru-Spec or propper make milspec ACUs. Also, who makes a BDU cut in ACU pattern? I'd love to get a pair and have them modded similar to the "cool guy SOCOM BDUs/DCUs" I always see SF guys wearing I Do I want a BDU or ACU? I'm still interested in buying a 50/50 black set first... But also stuck/confused on which camo set to get. I want the 50/50 for both. |
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ACu comes in ripstop only. It also generally sucks, although you can get the TRUs that are decent.
The BDUs come in heavy cotton for colder weather and ripstop. I personally prefer the BDU cut, especially for the pants. BTW, camo patterns: ACU 
BDU/Woodland 
DCU/Desert 3-color 
You can find all three patterns in either a BDU cut or an ACU cut. |
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Why do the ACU's suck? Is that ACU all the digital camo? I guess I just like the traditional woodland like your 2nd pic So if I want something like the 2nd pic, I want BDU's? Like I said, you can get all 3 patterns in either a BDU or ACU cut. The digital pattern is the army's ACU pattern though. The ACU pattern sucks because it's poor camoflage. The ACU cut tends to blow out the crotch, there's velcro on the cargo pockets causing it to sag, and are all around not nearly as durable as BDUs. Although, I have heard decent things about the Tru-spec TRUs (Tru-spec's ACU cut uniform). I also prefer the woodland pattern for my camo. I find the traditional BDU cut to be more comfortable and more durable. Although for the functionality aspect I use a black TRU jacket and woodland BDU pants. |
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Why do the ACU's suck? Is that ACU all the digital camo? I guess I just like the traditional woodland like your 2nd pic So if I want something like the 2nd pic, I want BDU's? Like I said, you can get all 3 patterns in either a BDU or ACU cut. The digital pattern is the army's ACU pattern though. The ACU pattern sucks because it's poor camoflage. The ACU cut tends to blow out the crotch, there's velcro on the cargo pockets causing it to sag, and are all around not nearly as durable as BDUs. Although, I have heard decent things about the Tru-spec TRUs (Tru-spec's ACU cut uniform). I also prefer the woodland pattern for my camo. I find the traditional BDU cut to be more comfortable and more durable. Although for the functionality aspect I use a black TRU jacket and woodland BDU pants. Alright well where can I find some top quality 50/50 woodland BDU's? I have a couple of local places that sell military surplus & stuff, is this 50/50 common enough that they may have it? How much is a good price for the 50/50 woodland BDU? Top & bottom? Is there a heavy jacket and a lighter jacket option? Or just one kind of jacket? I'd would order the woodland BDU's at the same time I can find the 50/50 black BDU's... Any direction you can point me so I can try and see if they sell them? |
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Alright well BDU.com has the nylon/cottom ripstop tops & bottoms in woodland for $30, so $60 for a set.
Question is, what size do I take. I'm going to try out the local army/navy stores and see what fits. Is this 50/50 pretty common where they should have it in stock? All I see are these 65/35 blends in black. How do those feel comfort wise to the 50/50? So is there NO place offering the 50/50 ripstop in black? Any specialty shops? I'd be willing to pay more than the "normal" price just to get it... |
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Will it actually say on the tag 50/50 RIPSTOP?no I have some 50/50 woodland BDU's, but there is no mention of the ripstop?there should be little square pattrens in the fabric Is the 65/35/15 black ripstop as comfortable as the 50/50 ripstop?I say no, but others say yes, YMMV Am I completely SOL for 50/50 black?yes Any specialty stores/orders?doubtful I'm going to give you some 'tough-love': shut up and buy something and try it out!!! brigade QM has a very good return policy. get one of each, see which one you like, and send the other one back and exchange it for more of the one you like. where in OH are you 
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the one in medina is a whiteys also. not very big. only if you are bored, come check it out (they are on the square). they are open
till 9 on fridays, 5:30 the rest of the week. two things of note: when you check out the 65/35 fabric, it's going to be/feal stiff. it will soften up a bit when you wash it. and most of the people that work in these stores are part time high school kids, so if you go in there and ask them about 50/50 nyco vs 65/36 poly cotton they will look at you like this:  so dont bother, just look at the tag and feal it.and......
PICK ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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