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Posted: 11/9/2009 7:00:29 PM EDT
Gemtech G5 with a Gemtech-installed "AUG" bilock. Only issue I had was that one 42-rd magazine decided to "pop" 2-3 rounds out every time I used it, but the other 3 42-rd and 8 30-rd magazines were fine. ACOG TAO1 with a Burris FastFire on top. VTAC sling. Wolf 62-grain "black box" .223 ammo. |
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Boy, drop that rifle on the ground and you may not be able to find it......nice cammo job!!
Got a question, are you supposed to use sub-sonic ammo when a silencer is in play; or, do you just use regulare ammo and just benefit from a lowered db report on each shot. I don't have a lot of knowledge with what to do when using a silenced weapon. TIA. |
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Boy, drop that rifle on the ground and you may not be able to find it......nice cammo job!! Got a question, are you supposed to use sub-sonic ammo when a silencer is in play; or, do you just use regulare ammo and just benefit from a lowered db report on each shot. I don't have a lot of knowledge with what to do when using a silenced weapon. TIA. Subsonic 5.56mm / .223 ammunition is pretty much a waste of time (and hard to find and expensive). The major purpose of a rifle suppressor is reduce the db level (usually to make it ear-safe) and to disguise the source of the shot (reducing your signature). And it has a high CDI factor. Thank you for the comment on the paint job. 
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ODA, that is a nice looking STG!
I hope you wont take this wrong but I would like to ask a question based on a thread I just read in GD. Are you in any branch of the U.S. armed forces? The reason I ask is this. In GD right now there is a thread where some guy took a pic of some kid wearing a MARPAT shirt and pants waiting on the COD: Modern Warfare 2 game to be released. People in that thead, including some who claim to have been/ currently in the military called the kid all manner of names based on him wearing the BDUs and clearly not being in the service. I just wanted to know if you are in the service and if not to wonder why no one has given you any shit about being a "poser" at your carbine course. Again, no reflection on you, I just want to know. Personally I think they folks in GD who gave the kid shit are off their rocker. |
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ODA, that is a nice looking STG! I hope you wont take this wrong but I would like to ask a question based on a thread I just read in GD. Are you in any branch of the U.S. armed forces? The reason I ask is this. In GD right now there is a thread where some guy took a pic of some kid wearing a MARPAT shirt and pants waiting on the COD: Modern Warfare 2 game to be released. People in that thead, including some who claim to have been/ currently in the military called the kid all manner of names based on him wearing the BDUs and clearly not being in the service. I just wanted to know if you are in the service and if not to wonder why no one has given you any shit about being a "poser" at your carbine course. Again, no reflection on you, I just want to know. Personally I think they folks in GD who gave the kid shit are off their rocker. I am a retired Special Forces major. I am not wearing the uniform or insignia of the US Army (while some SF do wear MultiCam, it is not the uniform of the US Army). Retired personnel may wear uniform when it is appropriate. |
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Dude, that is a sweet set-up. Got a question on the ACOG Mount. Is it a LaRue? If so, I'm thinking of slapping my TA33 w/ LaRue mount on an STG-556. How's the height? Good cheek weld? Thanks. "All my carbines wear LaRue, or they wear nothing at all..." Height is good. I might try a lower rail. |
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Given your background, I would appreciate it if you could provide details on the weapon's performance during the course. I would also like to hear what you particularly like and don't like about the STG, comparing it to the M4 platform where appropriate, etc.
thank you for your input and your service! |
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What pouches were you using for the AUG mags? I'm going to set up a belt kit for my AUG for courses next year, and want to make sure the mags work in whatever pouches I get before I spend a bunch of cash. The shingle on the left side of the plate carrier is a CSM Tactical 6-mag M4 shingle. It has shock cord and cord lock adjusters so it can be adjusted. It holds three (3) "AUG" (STG-556) magazines just fine (either 30 or 42-rd). The two pouches on the front are Emdom 2-magazine M4 CQB magazines. They hold a single "AUG" (STG-556) magazine (30 or 42-rd). With 42-rd magazines, that's 210 rounds. On my first line gear I used a single Tactical Tailor M4 pouch (shock cord retention). A 30-round "AUG" (STG-556) magazine fits in it. |
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Given your background, I would appreciate it if you could provide details on the weapon's performance during the course. I would also like to hear what you particularly like and don't like about the STG, comparing it to the M4 platform where appropriate, etc. thank you for your input and your service! First, you can't run a STG-556 like an M4. Malfunction drills are different. While magazine changes are still akward (for me), the STG-556 is lighter, ergonomic (for me) and just as accurate. I had one difficult to clear type 3 malfunction. I ran my Gemtech and had o issues and the STG-556 is not appreciably louder (to me). I didn't touch the gas setting. As far as a course, putting aside that the instructional staff had no experience outside the AR platform, it ran like a top and did what I needed. I have no negatives to report. In a zombie apocolypse, its a excellent fighting rifle. The STG-556 is accurate and reliable. IA input from an Ozzie: The catch words we use for IA’s are: Tilt, Cock, Lock, Look.
TILT: Bring the weapon in, so most of the stock is under your master arm. Turn the wpn over, with the ejection port down. COCK: Cock the working parts back and watch for the ejected round (hopefully one should have been ejected or just fall out), then; LOCK: The cocking handle back in the ‘hold open recess’ to hold the working parts back. Turn the wpn over, with the ejection port up and: LOOK: Look in the chamber, see what the problem is. You will get: - No rounds in the chamber, no rounds in the mag, no rounds ejected. Change mag with fresh 5.56 goodness. - No rounds in the chamber, rounds in the mag, live round ejected. Ammo stoppage, 1st time. Release the working parts and continue firing. - No rounds in the chamber, rounds in the mag, live round ejected. Ammo stoppage, 2nd time, gas problem. Release the working parts. PLACE WEAPON ON SAFE!! Then adjust gas plug to adverse setting. Continue firing. - No rounds in the chamber, rounds in the mag, live round ejected. Ammo stoppage, 3rd time. Inspect ejected ammo. Soft struck? Go to an armourer. - Loose rounds in the chamber, Rounds in the mag, live round ejected. Misfeed. Remove mag, shake out loose rounds. Replace mag, continue firing. - Rounds in the chamber, rounds in the mag, no round ejected. Blockage in the pipe. Place wpn on safe, remove mag, remove barrel. Use cleaning rod and gently tap out stuck round from the suppressor end of the barrel. |
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ODA_564, your review here is fantastic.
To have a guy with your credentials, your knowledge base, take an STG through a carbine course offers an invaluable assessment of the platform. Since the boom in the AR world over the last few years, the availability of high quality AR parts and guns has never run deeper than it does today. Consequently due to this and platform familiarity, many people view the AR as the begining and end of the discussion on effective defensive small arms available to the civilian market. I don't have anywhere near your credentials, but have been increasingly interested in the MSAR line for some time now. To the extent that I now own an E4 as of about 2 weeks ago. Though it is clearly a well made firearm and the company's ongoing support of its product and customers is very impressive, it's been difficult to truly assess its merits as a true fighting gun. Thanks for taking the time here, to relay your observations and experiences with your STG. I'm by no means alone my appreciation of your insights here. Question. Do you find any limitations in the STG based on the vast modularity we all love in our AR's? Or does the platform answer most of what you need in a fighhting gun? I.e. Length of pull, the sight base restrictions and anything else that you may have found? |
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It would be interesting to see a complete manual of arms (possibly stolen from the Aussies and the Austrians) based specifically on the AUG platform and others like it. I've played with the AUG in the past but always kind of brushed it off with not much more than a passing glance because A) most of the trainers and gun writers told me that mag changes are next to impossible and B) AUG's have always been stupidly expensive.
Now that there are some reasonably priced options on the market, I'd like to give the system a serious look. To that end, have you messed with firing the weapon off your support side? How do you deal with the right-hand ejection port? Quoted:
IA input from an Ozzie: The catch words we use for IA’s are: Tilt, Cock, Lock, Look.
TILT: Bring the weapon in, so most of the stock is under your master arm. Turn the wpn over, with the ejection port down. COCK: Cock the working parts back and watch for the ejected round (hopefully one should have been ejected or just fall out), then; LOCK: The cocking handle back in the ‘hold open recess’ to hold the working parts back. Turn the wpn over, with the ejection port up and: LOOK: Look in the chamber, see what the problem is. You will get: - No rounds in the chamber, no rounds in the mag, no rounds ejected. Change mag with fresh 5.56 goodness. - No rounds in the chamber, rounds in the mag, live round ejected. Ammo stoppage, 1st time. Release the working parts and continue firing. - No rounds in the chamber, rounds in the mag, live round ejected. Ammo stoppage, 2nd time, gas problem. Release the working parts. PLACE WEAPON ON SAFE!! Then adjust gas plug to adverse setting. Continue firing. - No rounds in the chamber, rounds in the mag, live round ejected. Ammo stoppage, 3rd time. Inspect ejected ammo. Soft struck? Go to an armourer. - Loose rounds in the chamber, Rounds in the mag, live round ejected. Misfeed. Remove mag, shake out loose rounds. Replace mag, continue firing. - Rounds in the chamber, rounds in the mag, no round ejected. Blockage in the pipe. Place wpn on safe, remove mag, remove barrel. Use cleaning rod and gently tap out stuck round from the suppressor end of the barrel. |
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ODA, that is a nice looking STG! I hope you wont take this wrong but I would like to ask a question based on a thread I just read in GD. Are you in any branch of the U.S. armed forces? The reason I ask is this. In GD right now there is a thread where some guy took a pic of some kid wearing a MARPAT shirt and pants waiting on the COD: Modern Warfare 2 game to be released. People in that thead, including some who claim to have been/ currently in the military called the kid all manner of names based on him wearing the BDUs and clearly not being in the service. I just wanted to know if you are in the service and if not to wonder why no one has given you any shit about being a "poser" at your carbine course. Again, no reflection on you, I just want to know. Personally I think they folks in GD who gave the kid shit are off their rocker. I am a retired Special Forces major. I am not wearing the uniform or insignia of the US Army (while some SF do wear MultiCam, it is not the uniform of the US Army). Retired personnel may wear uniform when it is appropriate. I just knew you had to be ex-Army with that Ranger rolled hat. Only SF can Ranger roll a baseball cap! |
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ODA_564 Question. Do you find any limitations in the STG based on the vast modularity we all love in our AR's? Or does the platform answer most of what you need in a fighhting gun? I.e. Length of pull, the sight base restrictions and anything else that you may have found? |
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ODA_564 Question. Do you find any limitations in the STG based on the vast modularity we all love in our AR's? Or does the platform answer most of what you need in a fighhting gun? I.e. Length of pull, the sight base restrictions and anything else that you may have found? Anyone home? |
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I ran my Gemtech and had o issues and the STG-556 is not appreciably louder (to me). I didn't touch the gas setting. Have ya tried it without hearing protection without it on 'grenade' mode? Or is it still a bit too loud for that? I'm going to use my 308 suppressor on mine and see if it causes less blow off. Nice pics, and great camo job. |
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How did you handle weekside shooting from the left shoulder and the right side ejection. Very interested in how you dealt with this. Thanks for posting the thead about your experience and your pics. We didn't do transitions so it didn't come up. Transitions are a challenge with a bullpup. |
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I ran my Gemtech and had o issues and the STG-556 is not appreciably louder (to me). I didn't touch the gas setting. Have ya tried it without hearing protection without it on 'grenade' mode? Or is it still a bit too loud for that? I'm going to use my 308 suppressor on mine and see if it causes less blow off. Nice pics, and great camo job. I've tried in semiauto mode without hearing protection. Not having a decibel meter and having fairly bad hearing loss, all I can say isn't "I" didn't notice it being much louder. Not scientific. |
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ODA_564 Question. Do you find any limitations in the STG based on the vast modularity we all love in our AR's? Or does the platform answer most of what you need in a fighhting gun? I.e. Length of pull, the sight base restrictions and anything else that you may have found? Anyone home? I would be perfectly fine using the STG-556 "AUGery" (as my Ozzie mates called it) as my primary fighting arm. The "modularity" in the M4 is based on the 1913 rails if you have a railed forearm. Most people use those to hang a VFG and a light / laser off. I have a right side rail on my STG-556 for a light / laser and it has a VFG. STG-556s with a optics rail are equivalent to a flattop M4 reciever. You can switch out optics as you desire. You aren't going to tote around multiple AR upper receivers for a "fighting" carbine to "modular" calibers / barrel length / etc. You could, but you could do the same with a STG-556 (but it would be dumb and heavy in either case). Length of pull is good for me (I drive a M4gery "nose to charging handle"). Balance is better that a 16" AR. What perceived "sight base restrictions" are there? Its an optics platform. You run an optic. I'd like to see the new lower rail incorporate "emergency" iron sights but I'll leave that to Dave. The only place I find it less than optimal is in magazine changes, but I believe that is a matter of 30+ years experience with the AR / M16 / M4 and less-than-2 years experience with the STG-556. |
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To my understanding Rizzo over at MSAR is looking at being able to do a 12 " bi-rail that would place the front at the same level as a gas block front back-up sight on the AR. So those looking for more space/options for back-up sights will have more options. I think it would be simple to design fixed (or flip up) non-adjustable "emergency" sights into the rail. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ODA_564 Question. Do you find any limitations in the STG based on the vast modularity we all love in our AR's? Or does the platform answer most of what you need in a fighhting gun? I.e. Length of pull, the sight base restrictions and anything else that you may have found? Anyone home? I would be perfectly fine using the STG-556 "AUGery" (as my Ozzie mates called it) as my primary fighting arm. The "modularity" in the M4 is based on the 1913 rails if you have a railed forearm. Most people use those to hang a VFG and a light / laser off. I have a right side rail on my STG-556 for a light / laser and it has a VFG. STG-556s with a optics rail are equivalent to a flattop M4 reciever. You can switch out optics as you desire. You aren't going to tote around multiple AR upper receivers for a "fighting" carbine to "modular" calibers / barrel length / etc. You could, but you could do the same with a STG-556 (but it would be dumb and heavy in either case). Length of pull is good for me (I drive a M4gery "nose to charging handle"). Balance is better that a 16" AR. What perceived "sight base restrictions" are there? Its an optics platform. You run an optic. I'd like to see the new lower rail incorporate "emergency" iron sights but I'll leave that to Dave. The only place I find it less than optimal is in magazine changes, but I believe that is a matter of 30+ years experience with the AR / M16 / M4 and less-than-2 years experience with the STG-556. Understood on all accounts, thanks for the feedback. I'm liking my E4 more and more every time I shoot it. |
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mike great information and pictures. I am really tempted to take my to a carbine course in the future. I have be reluctant because of the speed of mag changes, any input on that aspect? or did I miss it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBbJhv39IUM&feature=channel_page Tomac |
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How did you handle weekside shooting from the left shoulder and the right side ejection. Very interested in how you dealt with this. Thanks for posting the thead about your experience and your pics. always heard for weak side shooting, to cant the rifle like 45-60 degrees, it should be enough of an angle to eject the brass down and not into your nose. |
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How did you handle weekside shooting from the left shoulder and the right side ejection. Very interested in how you dealt with this. Thanks for posting the thead about your experience and your pics. always heard for weak side shooting, to cant the rifle like 45-60 degrees, it should be enough of an angle to eject the brass down and not into your nose. There's a whole thread on this. |
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