I recently acquired a CBRN-FM12 Respirator, made by Avon Rubber PLC.  Most of you will immediately recognize this respirator as the one made famous by the British SAS Counter Revolutionary Warfare crews.  It is, in fact, an updated version of this mask.  The original S10 respirator was designed as a standard issue replacement for the British Armed Forces’ aging S6 respirator (which was used by the SAS when they stormed the Iranian Embassy at Princess Gate.  Another version of the S10, called the SF10 was developed for the SAS.  Fast forward to today and the FM12.

The FM12 retains all the features that made the S10 and SF10 respirators industry standard but, a few improvements have been made.  

The Avon CBRNFM-12 respirator is CE and NIOSH-approved when used with the AVON CBRN canister.  Each canister meets the requirements for a P100 Particulate filter (99.97% filtration efficiency) for 8 hours after first exposure to chemical warfare agents and 2 hours for liquid exposure.

Let me say that I am no longer in military service and I bought this respirator as a home preparedness/ SHTF/ TEOTWAWKI device.  It would be used as respirator that would allow me to evacuate to a safe area; not something that would allow me to operate indefinitely in a hot zone.  But, knowing a thing or two about tactical employment of gas masks, I will show how well the FM12 works when using some common weapons platforms (just in case you need to fight your way through some radiation-induced mutant zombies on the way to a safe zone, or some bad guys/hadjis; whatever comes first).

I was graciously provided with some CBRN (Chemical, Biological, Radiological, and Nuclear) canisters from Avon in which to review.  So, up front, I want to give them credit and a big thank you!

So, on to the review!



The FM12 comes in a reusable protective nylon case in which to store the unit when not in use.  Canisters are vacuum sealed in foil pouches with expiration date labels.  Avon recommends that canisters be left in their pouches until needed, but we are going to go ahead and tear this one open to see what’s inside.  



The basic respirator package includes one FM12 respirator, Nylon Protective case, and User’s Manual.  I purchased the Tinted Outserts separately (because they make the mask look so badass (and they help reduce flash from flash bangs, fire, and other distractions encountered in combat too).  The CBRNF12 canister was provided by Avon, but is normally purchased separately.  There are several canisters offered for the FM12, each for a different threat level.  The CBRNF12CE is a dual classification filter for Industrial and CBRN applications.  It is rated to protect against all particulate hazards including dust, mist, fume, bacteria and virus plus all NIOSH specified CBRN gases and vapors including nerve, blood, choking and blister agents and toxic materials.  The CTF12 is a CS/CN/P100 riot and particulate agent filter.  It is rated to protect against all particulate hazards including dust, mist, fume, bacteria and virus, plus riot agents, CS/CN/OC and low level organic vapors.  The DPF12 has the same properties as the CTF12, but also protects against organic vapors, acid gases, hydrogen cyanide, nerve agents (eq to C2A1), ammonia, methylamine, phosphine, formaldehyde, and sulphur dioxide.  The AMF12 is a NATO NBC canister.  It protects against chemical, biological and radiological warfare agents in accordance with NATO requirements.  It also stops certain toxic industrial chemicals such as chlorine, hydrogen sulphide, sulphur dioxide and organic vapors with a boiling point above 65 degrees C.

My first impression of the respirator is that it is extremely well-constructed with elegantly simple lines and very few crevices in which to collect dirt and debris.  The seams are well sealed and very little flash from the mold is present.  It also feels pretty lightweight.  At the very front is the Primary Speech Module with a plastic front cover.  Gas masks are not known for their ability allows users to verbally communicate, but the FM12 does an admirable job with my voice being able to be heard clear enough from about 5 meters.  Avon offers a Voice Projection Unit which fits over the PSM, making the mask look like an anteater, but I did not purchase it because my respirator will be used in more of a bug-out than crowd control manner.  

The dual eye lenses allow for a clear field of view and offer enough wrap around to restore most of the wearer’s peripheral vision.  Some new masks are designed with a single lens, but I’ve never been a fan of that style because I find that it “warps” my vision just enough to be noticeable when swiveling my head.  I prefer the dual lenses instead.  The division between the eyes is slightly noticeable, more so when looking to the left or right, but minimal.


The head harness is an improvement over the old S10/SF10 respirators’ rubber straps in that it is now made of elastic and mesh.  This is great because will not pull your hair while donning the mask.  I have been practicing rapid deployment of the mask and have yet to pull a single hair!  The harness seems very sturdy and overbuilt with nicely sewn box stitches at the attachment points.



The brow and temple straps are adjusted when the respirator is initially sized and then left alone.  A locking cam buckle at each point crimps down on the straps and holds them very tightly.  The buckles are low profile and require a positive effort to undo.  The cheek straps are the ones that need tightening/loosening when donning/doffing the respirator.



View of the gasket and valve.  It is a 40mm thread and will accept any 40mm NATO thread canister, but Avon recommends using their canisters (although it is nice to know that others will work in a pinch).  The FM12 is not ambidextrous.  Avon offers it with valves mounted on the left or right side, so make sure you get a left-canister mount if you a right-handed, and a right-canister mount if you are left-handed.



Secondary Speech Transmitter is optimally placed for use with telephone communication.



The Drinking Facility has a hose that wraps around the PSM, at the end of which is a Drinking Coupler that plugs into a slot under the PSM.  The hose pops into a recess that runs around the perimeter of the PSM to keep it from coming loose and snagging on equipment.  The drinking system is switched on by rotating a lever on the front of the PSM which rotates the straw to your mouth.





The FM12 is easily compatible with Camelbak hydration systems using their adapter “Type A.”  This is a separately-purchased item, but a necessary one (IMO).  I found it very easy to use.  Like all other respirator hydration systems, you have to blow into the straw to pressurize the canteen/bladder before being able to receive fluid.  After you are done drinking, you have to blow through the straw again to clear any residual liquid from the hose.  Simple.




The inside of the mask has a generous “pillow” that cushions the face and helps create a positive seal.  It is probably the most comfortable respirator I have worn.  It is made of a butyl/silicon rubber blend which creates a very soft interface with the wearer’s face.  I have prominent, high cheek bones which can sometimes cause problems with respirators achieving a proper seal.  The FM12 molded right to my face and maintained a perfect seal.  The FM12 comes in 3 sizes.  They use British sizing, so 3=small, 2=medium, and 1=large.  I bought a size 2 and it fits me perfectly.  I wear a size 7 ¼ boonie hat and a large ACH with size 6 pads (have kind of a big noggin).



The tinted Outserts pop over the eye pieces with a rubber gasket.  I found that I have to really press them on all the way around the perimeter of each eye piece in order to make sure they stayed.




Donning the mask is simple.  After the brow and temple straps have been properly sized, you just place the respirator to your face while pulling the harness over your head.  This is where the new style harness really shines.  The mesh and elastic slip right over your hair and require little or no adjustment to make it comfortable.  



Then, pull the cheek straps tight and you are GTG.  This is another great feature of the new harness.  The elastic cheek straps pull very easily through the ladder locks on the mask.  The whole process can be accomplished in 2 seconds with practice.  Granted, that is assuming you have the mask in hand.  I am planning on purchasing an Original SOE gas mask bag.  So, when I have that, I will update this review.





The FM12 creates a pretty slim profile, allowing it to be easily used with headset-style earpro.  Here, I am wearing it with a set of Peltor COMTACs.  The COMTACs’ ear cup seals were not disturbed by the straps from the respirator.



The large CBRN-type canister prevents a lot of downward angle while wearing a vest.  Here, I am wearing an Eagle Land CIRAS with plates and BALCS Armor inserts.  I was only able to bend my neck at about 30 degrees.



The low profile eye pieces allow for the use of a helmet.  (I know, I know, I said I was reviewing this for bug-out purposes, but I’m trying to make it pertinent to those who might want to take it into a combat situation too).  Here, I am showing it with a MSA Gallet TC2000 with an Ops Core H Head-Loc Retention System.  In order to fit around the respirator, I had to install the 3” CBRN/ Gas Mask Extender.  The respirator fit very comfortably with my COMTACs and ACH.  The helmet sits in its proper position.  I didn’t even have to rearrange the pads!




The FM12 even fits under a boonie hat.




The hardest things to do with a gas mask are the simple tasks we take for granted.  However, the wide viewing angle and low profile nature of the FM12 allows for a pretty small learning curve.  Tactical deployment of gas masks can cause some getting-used-to.  So, lets take a look at some common weapons platforms in conjunction with the FM12, starting out with the ubiquitous AR15.

I found that an AR with an EOTech Holo-Site gave me the clearest and quickest target acquisition.  YMMV.  The larger window probably has something to do with it.  Regardless of the sites used, I found that I had to tilt my head a bit to get behind them, which caused more of the “break” between the eye pieces to become visible.  This did cut into my viewing angle a bit, but the LMT SOPMOD butt stock felt like it kept me from having to tilt my head as much because it hugs the buffer tube a bit closer than some other stocks.  




A small amount of tilt to the rifle is required.


The Aimpoint was still pretty fast to acquire a target, but not as fast as the EOTech.  The smaller viewing window required a little more tilt to the weapon as well.  The Magpul CTR stock has a thicker section around the buffer tube and prevented me from having as good of a cheek weld as the SOPMOD.  But, this could also have been from my shooting stance.  Again, YMMV.




I was surprised at how easily I could acquire a target using an ACOG.  The low-profile FM12 allowed me to bear down on the scope and get that 1” eye relief.  The VLTOR MOD Stock also allowed for a tight cheek weld.




Plain, old, Iron Sites worked well too.




A common SHTF weapon is the good-old 12 gauge.  My Remington 870P MAX allowed for quick targeting.  The Ghost Ring sites really help with this.  I’m not sure how visible standard bead sites would be.  




Pistols are easy since there is nothing that interfaces with your cheek.  A good box stance and you are GTG.  Drawing and holstering your sidearm while wearing the FM12 and armor must be able to be accomplished without looking (remember how I said you can’t see downward much?).  But, this is a skill that pistol shooters should have mastered anyway.  




While wearing the mask for an extended time, I did sweat a lot.  But, I noticed no fogging at all.  This amazed me, because I have a pretty prominent ridge in my nose which often causes goggles and masks to fit poorly.  But, there was absolutely 0 fogging in the FM12.  


Overall, the Avon FM12 is an excellent mask for SHTF and Military/LEO applications.  It is versatile, low-profile, and well-made by a company with decades-worth of experience in respirators.  I had heard and read a lot of great things about Avon products and the FM12 certainly lives up to its reputation.  Not to mention it looks freakin’ cool as hell!  

My puppy, Moxie, gives it 2 paws up!




While on the topic of bug-out/SHTF respirator reviews, Avon was also good enough to send me one of their EH20 CBRN Escape Hoods.  This device was purposely designed to provide LEO, Firefighters, Emergency Workers, and Civilians a compact, easily portable hood which can be donned quickly in less than 30 seconds in the event of a CBRN attack.  The EH20 is designed to provide immediate protection for up to 20 minutes to escape a contaminated area.  Whenever people review gas masks for bug-out purposes, there are always the nay-sayers with their inevitable replies of “so what, are you gonna carry that thing with you all the time?”  Well, with this handy little package, you actually can!

The EH20 comes in a small (6 x 3 ¾ x 2 ½ “) reinforced pouch.  It can easily be fit in a purse, briefcase, backpack, fanny pack, shoulder satchel, glove box, etc.  There is also a nylon belt loop with Velcro/snap closure on the back.



The pouch opens at the top with a Velcro flap and reveals a vacuum-sealed package and instruction card.



The instruction card folds out and provides quick reference pictogram instructions for the deployment of EH20.  But, I would recommend buying several of these to practice with ahead of time.  The last thing you want to be dealing with in a catastrophe is a little instruction booklet!  



The EH20 is vacuum-sealed in a foil pouch for a 10 year shelf life.  There is a small tear slit at each corner of the package so you don’t have to go turning the thing around for 10 seconds to find the spot to open.  This is a simple feature, but very important!  Also, you do not want to use a knife to open the package for reasons you will soon see.



Upon opening the foil package, you pull out the clear, polyurethane hood to release the visors.



Next, insert your hand through the neck opening and flick open the nose cup.



Place both hands into the neck seal and stretch it open.  The neck seal is made of polysoprene, which is a highly stretchable material (800%) that forms a tight seal around the neck, but is soft enough to not make it feel like you are choking.



Pull the hood over the head in one, quick motion.  Your head slides right into the elastic head harness inside the hood.  This ensures that the nose cup lines up properly.



Finally, make any necessary adjustments to make sure that the nose fits up over your nose and mouth properly.  If you have long hair, you will need to stuff it up inside the hood so that the neck seal can perform properly.



The EH20 hood is not meant to replace a standard respirator.  It is an escape hood only.  Once you make it to a safe zone, you should transition to a canister respirator or SCBA.  As such, it is hard to fault it for any of its minor detractors.  The clear hood allows for quick and easy identification of team mates or family members.  There is some minor vision impairment due to the plastic-bag-like light refraction, but it is easily overcome by adjusting the hood.  The neck seal is tight.  This is for a very important reason, though.  So, I could forgive the minor annoyance of knowing that it is there (seeing as how it is saving my life).  I tried like hell to get this thing to fog and to no avail.  There was only minor fogging that subsided almost instantly.  My only real complaint is that the adhesiveness between the polyurethane hood and the eye shields has some “bubble.”  Much like a window decal that hasn’t been properly squeegeed, the eye shields had some poor visibility spots.



Overall, this is a great idea!  It is well executed and fills a role that is often overlooked for civil defense and first responders.  Along with an FM12 for my wife, I plan on picking up a few more of these for our cars and offices.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.  I hope it helps.  I would like to thank my wonderful wife for taking the time to help me with the photography.

nice review clasky great photos too!

Great Review and good pictures.

I like Avon they used to be exclusively a UK company, but a great deal of the products are now made in Michigan so you're supporting US workers when you purchase their products.

It's nice to buy US-made stuff when I can.  But, I gotta say, even if they were not manufacturing in the US, I would still buy their products.  Avon sets the standard for CBRN protection.  When dealing with threats like that, I would rather buy what's best, not what's made here.  All the same, they do make a lot of their stuff in Cadillac, MI which is nice.

great review. where can I buy one ?

It's even on sale.

Safety Systems Corporation

Avon ?

  Cool my daughter sells Avon  

Avon just finished testing its new M50 Joint Service Mask that will soon by the standard issue Gas Mask for the US Armed Services.  It will replace the M40 and promises 150% more protection, 300% more chemical resistance, 36% weight reduction, and 35% better inhallation and exhallation according to Avon.  

Is the EH20 available for sale yet? What does it retail for?  

The EH20 should be available for sale as it is on their website.  I don't know how much it costs because I got the sample for free so I could review it for you guys.

Cool pics. That mask looks gnarly! I started cracking up when I saw the pics of you and your dog.

Very nice review, I have had one of these masks for awhile now and still learned some stuff.

Dude, that mask looks awesome! Especially with the tinted outserts. But are they seriously $57.25!?!

$160 for the mask isnt that bad. Might have to pick one up.

Wow...one of the best reviews I've ever seen.  Jeez Clasky you have a lot of goodies!

+1 to the dog pics

Did he/she freak out at all?  My rott about tore me a new one back in the day when I was wearing a mask as we were spraying some not so nice chemicals.  Was takin a break and my dog was inside b/c of the chemicals...I already had the mask adjusted and just wanted to go in and cool off.  Damn Rott was about ready to either lunge at me or shit himself.

Quoted: Wow...one of the best reviews I've ever seen.  Jeez Clasky you have a lot of goodies! +1 to the dog pics Did he/she freak out at all?  My rott about tore me a new one back in the day when I was wearing a mask as we were spraying some not so nice chemicals.  Was takin a break and my dog was inside b/c of the chemicals...I already had the mask adjusted and just wanted to go in and cool off.  Damn Rott was about ready to either lunge at me or shit himself.

Thanks fivepoint.

Yeah, I've been building my rifles for awhile now.  I'm in the process of building another one.  Noveske Lower/SOPMOD stock, SBR with an LWRC 10.5" SRT upper.  It's going to be my 416 clone, so I have the C4 Diopter Hk-style sights on the way.  I can't wait!  It's my first SBR.  I'll be sure to have my photographer wife take some shots of it like the one at the top of the page.

 Moxie didn't freak out at all.  She is only 10 months old and still a very curious little thing.  She knows my scent and easily recognizes me regardless of what I'm wearing.

Quoted: Great review. Makes me want to get 1 or 2 or 7. And the gf loves the pup. Oddly enough, we have a little white one named Moxie.

Thanks!  I'm planning on getting another one for my wife.  With the looks of things today, you can never be too prepared.

What kind of dog is your Moxie?  Mine is a pure-bred toy poodle.

Quoted: Dude, that mask looks awesome! Especially with the tinted outserts. But are they seriously $57.25!?! $160 for the mask isnt that bad. Might have to pick one up.

I should have just answered all the ?'s in a single post.

Yes, the outserts are expensive and unnecessary unless you employ flashbangs on a regular basis, but can you really put a price tag on an accessory that takes a kickass mask and makes it into the the most badass respirator on the planet?

Post whore....

Hi Clasky,

Nice review, never seen the FM12 in real life personally but looks good :). Its virtually identical to my issued S10, main differences ive noticed are:

• 
  Issued mask is moulded differently, nose looks slightly more pronounced on the issue mask and also has the addition of a rubber ridge around mask (to maintain correct seal when used with NBC suit hood)



• FM12 harness is far supperior to the issued version, still have the rubber 'spider' type



• Drinking straw (internally is different). Issued version is in an 'L' shape which rotates towards mouth on the use of the on/off tap.



• Issued mask has points internally for the addition of corrective lenses.



• Eye pieces are also deeper on the issued mask.



• PSM also appears to look deeper on the issued mask but not 100% as your pics dont show enough depth (on the PSM) to comment.



• Obvioulsy retail filters look different to the current issued one.

From experience these are fantastic masks but i truly hope you never have to use it in anger :). We are in the process of replacing the S10 in favour of the GSR (general service respirator, Avon appear to have lost the contract ?). If your at all intrested heres a few pics as well as some information regarding it:

http://www.designreality.co.uk/images/

Apparently should be rolling out sometime this year. Also if your after the issued NBC haversack (UK DPM) drop me a PM and we can come to some arrangement :)

Again, fantastic review.

Regards,

Dave.

Quoted: Quoted: Dude, that mask looks awesome! Especially with the tinted outserts. But are they seriously $57.25!?! $160 for the mask isnt that bad. Might have to pick one up. I should have just answered all the ?'s in a single post. Yes, the outserts are expensive and unnecessary unless you employ flashbangs on a regular basis, but can you really put a price tag on an accessory that takes a kickass mask and makes it into the the most badass respirator on the planet?

Yeah, it does make it look fricken awesome. Reminds me of the previews of 28 Weeks Later (yes, previews because I havent seen the movie ).

Quoted: Hi Clasky, Nice review, never seen the FM12 in real life personally but looks good :). Its virtually identical to my issued S10, main differences ive noticed are: Issued mask is moulded differently, nose looks slightly more pronounced on the issue mask and also has the addition of a rubber ridge around mask (to maintain correct seal when used with NBC suit hood) FM12 harness is far supperior to the issued version, still have the rubber 'spider' type Drinking straw (internally is different). Issued version is in an 'L' shape which rotates towards mouth on the use of the on/off tap. Issued mask has points internally for the addition of corrective lenses. Eye pieces are also deeper on the issued mask. PSM also appears to look deeper on the issued mask but not 100% as your pics dont show enough depth (on the PSM) to comment. Obvioulsy retail filters look different to the current issued one. From experience these are fantastic masks but i truly hope you never have to use it in anger :). We are in the process of replacing the S10 in favour of the GSR (general service respirator, Avon appear to have lost the contract ?). If your at all intrested heres a few pics as well as some information regarding it: http://www.designreality.co.uk/images/ Apparently should be rolling out sometime this year. Also if your after the issued NBC haversack (UK DPM) drop me a PM and we can come to some arrangement :) Again, fantastic review. Regards, Dave.

Thanks for the info, Dave.  I served in the IDF (American Volunteer) in the 90's and we cross trained with some British Royal Marines.  I had a chance to check out their S10's and have been in love with the overall basic design ever since.  The Israeli M15 mask was a PITA compared to the Avon design because it placed the canister right in the middle and it was all but impossible to achieve a proper cheek weld on my M4.  

There is a hood designed for the FM12, but I do not have one, so I'm not sure how it attaches to the respirator.  There is also a provision for Rx specs, but I don't need glasses (yet), so I don't have that either.

The new GSR looks cool, I'd like to learn more about it.  

Obviously, I hope to never have to use the FM12 in anger either.  Serving in the IDF, one becomes all too familiar with the horrors that could be unleashed.  Everyone in Israel has a gas mask either from their obligatory service, or private purchase.  It is just a fact of daily life over there.  

height=8

Quoted: The new GSR looks cool, I'd like to learn more about it.

Still not much info floating around regarding it even though were supposed to get it soon. Found an article on it, again not very informative but information non the less :)

www.designreality.co.uk/newdesign29.pdf

Not had the pleasure of any CBRN training with any other nation. Its a pity really, CBRN training became less important mid 90's - 9/11. I was more than happy to let this ugly method of 'fighting' slip into the history books...... If only.

Best regards,

Dave.

Quoted: Quoted: The new GSR looks cool, I'd like to learn more about it.   Still not much info floating around regarding it even though were supposed to get it soon. Found an article on it, again not very informative but information non the less :) www.designreality.co.uk/newdesign29.pdf Not had the pleasure of any CBRN training with any other nation. Its a pity really, CBRN training became less important mid 90's - 9/11. I was more than happy to let this ugly method of 'fighting' slip into the history books...... If only. Best regards, Dave.

We were not doing NBC cross-training per say, but they brought a lot of kit with them and we were just as eager to check out their gear as they were to see ours.  I gotta say that I was thoroughly impressed by the Royal Marines.  They are top notch boys and very professional.  We were able to learn a lot from each other.

clasky, do you know if the standard S10 tinted outserts would work? Or the S10 filters?

Quoted: clasky, do you know if the standard S10 tinted outserts would work? Or the S10 filters?

I'm not sure about the S10 outserts because I've heard, but haven't confirmed that the FM12 eye pieces are slightly smaller than the S10's (so they fit better with helmets).  The S10 uses a standard 40mm thread canister, if I'm not mistaken, so it would be compatible.

I'm going to email Avon and if I can pick up a couple of those EH20s. I need something like that I can keep at my office and give to my old lady to keep at her office.

I would store them in the truck, but the summer heat might have a bad effect on them after long periods here in Texas.  

Also interested.  What size did you get and how big is your head

Quoted: Also interested.  What size did you get and how big is your head

size for the FM12 or the EH20?

There is not a fit chart per say, but they seem to follow other gas mask sizes pretty closely.  I wore a medium in the IDF and a medium FM12 fits me perfectly.  They do have a sizing kit, but I think they only send it out to agencies (at least that's what it looks like from the manual).  I would try calling Avon for some assistance in this area.

Weird.

Quoted: i emailed Avon and got this response back.. Aim4myhead, The FM12 is designed for use where personal protection is required in chemical warfare environments. As such it constitutes classified military equipment (its official classification is Restricted). Please can you advise what the masks are used for and where they were purchased? Many thanks, Julia Wills ok... Do the english not understand the reasoning for wanting to protect ones' family? J

Huh, that's not what I was expecting.  I purchased the mask from Safety Systems Corp. and before I could buy it, they had me fill out a form that (they said) the manufacturer requires.  It basically asked what I wanted it for.  I just answered the questions honestly and said "home preparedness."  The woman who helped me at SSC thought it was kinda weird too and said that Avon requires their vendors to have people fill it out.  Whatever.

The main measurement for a gas mask is the distance between the tips of your cheek bones.  I unfortunately do not have a medical caliper to measure myself, but I wear a size 7 1/4 boonie hat (if that helps).  

Honestly, for your situation, I would just kinda guesstimate your size based on common sense.  If you have an abnormally large melon, then the size 1 (large) is what you should go with.  If you have a pretty small head, go with a size 3.  

I wish I could be of more help.  You might want to try going to a surplus store and trying on a mask there.  Chances are, they will have some US or Israeli respirators and you can sorta gauge your size off those.  The Avon sizing seems to be more or less in line with those sizes.

Looks like they have the "we only sell to the government and not you stupid civies, like Hk and Colt" attitude.  

Seriously, unless you have an above or below average head size, go with a medium.  When you get it, do a negative pressure test (hold the mask to your face without tightening/adjusting straps while placing your hand over the inlet valve and breath in deeply).  If the mask collapses on your face, you have a good seal and the right size.  Also, your eyes should be in the middle of the eye pieces when looking in a mirror.

Glad to see it's working out for you.  When you get the size gauge or whatever other info, please post it for the rest of the guys.  Thanks.

Thats the British can't stand allowing civilians to be independent unless you're Islamic than you can pretty much practice Sahria (spelling, but I don't care really) Law and be your own independent country living above the law.

Hi,

ITAR covers a broad range of items and from my interpretation this also includes CBRN equipment.

It may not just be Avon being against ciivilians being 'independant' i id bet money on the fact that if i (living in the UK) would encounter far more problems and bureaucracy if i wanted to buy any US CBRN kit direct from a Stateside manufacturer.

From my very limited experience buying stuff from the US, these are the items ive been told catergorically (by retailers) are not allowed to be exported due to ITAR:

Headmount for night vision
Scope, was a tasco with mil-dots
Surefire torch
Scope mounts
GPS windscreen mount

ITAR works both ways and i can guarantee that (as im a serving Soldier and keen sporting shooter) theres a hell of a lot more stuff id like to buy from the US than you would from the UK. So theres a bit of an obstacle in ordering, hardly the end of the world ;)

Also, if its any consolation. Most Brits who havent got their heads up their arse feel exactly the same way about the errosion of our rights and Nation. Its gone a little too far to recover without an uprising :D. If i had the means to id have already applied for US citizenship a long time ago.

Regards,

Dave.

P.S This post is not aimed at anyone, just a response to the UK bashing with seems to be starting :p

Yeah, but Avon produces a great deal of their products in the USA right in Michigan so I don't see the issue with selling to civilians here.