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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:49:41 PM EST
[#1]
I took my B&T P26 out to shoot for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Recoil was miserable for a 9mm.
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Posted: 12/12/2019 10:16:15 AM EST
[#2]
While the title might be a bit strong, in that straight blowback is 100% unacceptable. I wholeheartedly agree that a delayed blow back weapon is much more enjoyable to shoot suppressed or unsuppressed and I would like to see more of them available for purchase. Years ago when I bought my Scorpion I found it surprising that it had a sharper recoil impulse than my 5.56 AR's. By no means is the recoil uncomfortable or painful. It just seems unnecessary to me that a pistol caliber recoils harder than a 5.56 rifle and I'd glady pay the small premium to have a smoother shooting firearm. Other will disagree with that mindset and that's their right.
Because of this thread I'll be keeping my eyes open for news on the Stribog A3 and if I didn't have so many AR's already I'd strongly consider building a CMMG with the radial delay setup. Question, those of you that have shot or own both an MP5 and LWRC SMG. How does the LWRC's recoil impulse compare to the MP5? |
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Posted: 12/12/2019 8:52:02 PM EST
[#3]
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Posted: 12/13/2019 9:16:35 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Mad-Machinist Please tell us more... What makes your configuration special/different? Does yours have less felt recoil than CMMG's RDB? The pricing is similar. |
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Posted: 12/13/2019 9:52:38 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot of words were used in this thread to say "stop liking what I don't like". Don't forget that most people buying a 9mm carbine don't want to spend over $500 for what they consider a plinker. If it takes Glock mags that's a plus since they already have a pile of Glock mags. Who cares if the recoil is a little snappier and it doesn't suppress as well. It's still fun to take the range and plink. Of course there are better systems, but they cost a lot more and not worth it to most buyers. I'm not spending over $1k on a plinker. For my fun guns, my plinkers, I’m going all out. I wanna make that experience fun. Fancy triggers, nice ergo, matching furniture. Mall ninja? Maybe, maybe just fun. So it may fail, have a FTF or FTE, that’s ok. It’s been fucked about so many times, it’s bound to happen. I don’t like blow backs. Here’s mine 9mm CMMG with a pink 458 Bowers can on it. Suck it. Yea that switch is set to happy. Thanks to @amphibian for doing all the testing to write up the optimal components for the CMMG.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/18/2019 9:24:13 AM EST
[#6]
Not sure if this was brought up.
Uses magnets to delay blowback. Appears that the bolt hold won’t work. https://taccom3g.com/product/delayed-blowback-9mm-recoil-system/ What about a system that uses detents similar to a rcbs lock out die to shed mass after initial recoil. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 12:37:39 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://media.tenor.com/images/039b76f457e474fccd92a26f5562393d/tenor.gif Someone finally gets it. Been saying this for years. Blowback is lazy engineering and cheap ass manufacturing, and too many gun owners are too dumb to know they are buying into stupid. I get it. Mp5 or bust. Always. Forever. The ISSUE is you pay $1600-1800 for an mp5 with no stock no optic, one mag, and they STILLLLL need a "200+rnd" break in, and habe FTEX, FTEJ Stovepipes, many issues, as well as needing a different locking piece for a can.....K especially, and theres no GD BHO. WHY NO BHO CMONNNNN. EVERY MAG "CLICK". A CLICK, is ur dead. Id say scorpion evo for bang for buck Im interested in the AK-V as well Ar9 is GASSY and hell on lowers, as well as being a brick. Mp5 are cool and insanely risky waste of funds if u get a shit one |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 12:44:48 PM EST
[#8]
-don't use the wrong locking piece...
I'm holding out the Stribog A3 for a factory 9mm PCC. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 2:36:59 PM EST
[#9]
Angstadt Arms new roller delayed ar9 the answer everyone is looking for?
https://angstadtarms.com/mdp9/ |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 2:59:16 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Angstadt Arms new roller delayed ar9 the answer everyone is looking for? https://angstadtarms.com/mdp9/ |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 6:27:22 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
-don't use the wrong locking piece... I'm holding out the Stribog A3 for a factory 9mm PCC. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 6:38:21 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Each his own. For my defensive guns, it’s a solid gun but no real frills. High quality and always works. Almost always 100% factory. For my fun guns, my plinkers, I’m going all out. I wanna make that experience fun. Fancy triggers, nice ergo, matching furniture. Mall ninja? Maybe, maybe just fun. So it may fail, have a FTF or FTE, that’s ok. It’s been fucked about so many times, it’s bound to happen. I don’t like blow backs. Here’s mine 9mm CMMG with a pink 458 Bowers can on it. Suck it. Yea that switch is set to happy. Thanks to @amphibian for doing all the testing to write up the optimal components for the CMMG. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/376732/EEB1B2E7-9890-4A54-85EF-4D4F3B878CF7_jpeg-1194919.JPG |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 7:24:51 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... What about a system that uses detents similar to a rcbs lock out die to shed mass after initial recoil. Patent drawings if you scroll down here: https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/007157450/publication/US3283435A?q=US3283435 Patent text here: https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=03283435&IDKey=CD74FBA128AA%0D%0A&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D3283435.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F3283435%2526RS%3DPN%2F3283435 |
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Posted: 1/8/2020 12:52:25 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Till u go run an mp5 suppressed and the bolt.rollers dent the reciever sides. Or trying to get a paddle realse without having it become a MG. Or clipping and pinning. Or the terrible, hard to redo triggers. I get it. Mp5 or bust. Always. Forever. The ISSUE is you pay $1600-1800 for an mp5 with no stock no optic, one mag, and they STILLLLL need a "200+rnd" break in, and habe FTEX, FTEJ Stovepipes, many issues, as well as needing a different locking piece for a can.....K especially, |
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Posted: 1/11/2020 3:45:07 PM EST
[#15]
I'm still going with "straight blowback is fine if the platform meets your requirements".
Yes, it's inferior. Yes, it's also cheap and generally works well enough for something lobbing pistol rounds. |
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Posted: 1/12/2020 11:34:27 PM EST
[#16]
the worst suppressor host I’ve shot was a h&k mp5k with the integrally suppressed barrel. It shot so much gas back into my eyes I couldn’t see to hit anything with it.
I’ve shot my straight blowback PSA and haven’t experienced hardly any of the blowback it did |
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Posted: 1/17/2020 4:08:00 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Definitely interesting, but probably not $2600 interesting for me... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Angstadt Arms new roller delayed ar9 the answer everyone is looking for? https://angstadtarms.com/mdp9/ That said, IMHO it cost too much $$$ and I would prefer it to use Colt SMG mags. |
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Posted: 1/21/2020 1:53:23 PM EST
[#18]
Well I just sold my MP5 and built 2 blowback 9mm AR platforms. I couldn't be happier. Sure the MP5 is smooth shooting, but that's where it ends. Very Expensive, terrible trigger, no LRBHO, complicated mag changes, bitch to clean and It still puts enough gas in the face during suppressed operations. Blowback is simple and simple is generally reliable (read less machinery). The AR platform has so many options, triggers, bolt and buffers, barrels, comps, magazines, and various furniture to meet anyone's needs. Not to mention sighting systems. From someone who has owned, trained on, and used MP5's, I am not looking back one bit.
Having said that, I have seen some interesting new technology in this thread. Its seems there will be some better options in the future. The MP5 is not one of them IMHO. |
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Posted: 1/21/2020 2:01:46 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Till u go run an mp5 suppressed and the bolt.rollers dent the reciever sides. Or trying to get a paddle realse without having it become a MG. Or clipping and pinning. Or the terrible, hard to redo triggers. I get it. Mp5 or bust. Always. Forever. The ISSUE is you pay $1600-1800 for an mp5 with no stock no optic, one mag, and they STILLLLL need a "200+rnd" break in, and habe FTEX, FTEJ Stovepipes, many issues, as well as needing a different locking piece for a can.....K especially, and theres no GD BHO. WHY NO BHO CMONNNNN. EVERY MAG "CLICK". A CLICK, is ur dead. Id say scorpion evo for bang for buck Im interested in the AK-V as well Ar9 is GASSY and hell on lowers, as well as being a brick. Mp5 are cool and insanely risky waste of funds if u get a shit one 
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Posted: 1/21/2020 2:19:05 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It appears very interesting and even though I am dead set against using Glock mags for a PCC, Angstadt mdp9 actually looks good. That said, IMHO it cost too much $$$ and I would prefer it to use Colt SMG mags. |
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Posted: 1/21/2020 9:41:06 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The new Means roller locked bolt/barrel that was announced to go in a standard upper very much has my attention.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It appears very interesting and even though I am dead set against using Glock mags for a PCC, Angstadt mdp9 actually looks good. That said, IMHO it cost too much $$$ and I would prefer it to use Colt SMG mags. |
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Posted: 1/21/2020 10:28:30 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well I just sold my MP5 and built 2 blowback 9mm AR platforms. I couldn't be happier. Sure the MP5 is smooth shooting, but that's where it ends. Very Expensive, terrible trigger, no LRBHO, complicated mag changes, bitch to clean and It still puts enough gas in the face during suppressed operations. Blowback is simple and simple is generally reliable (read less machinery). The AR platform has so many options, triggers, bolt and buffers, barrels, comps, magazines, and various furniture to meet anyone's needs. Not to mention sighting systems. From someone who has owned, trained on, and used MP5's, I am not looking back one bit. Having said that, I have seen some interesting new technology in this thread. Its seems there will be some better options in the future. The MP5 is not one of them IMHO. If the PSA cz scorp mag AR 9mm lower plays nice with any 9mm upper, ill be interested. Their AKV offering...mine is already back @ psa for diagnosis |
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Posted: 1/21/2020 10:53:23 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This! If the PSA cz scorp mag AR 9mm lower plays nice with any 9mm upper, ill be interested. Their AKV offering...mine is already back @ psa for diagnosis |
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Posted: 1/22/2020 3:10:42 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From what I gather from PSA Facebook site the PSA ARV is a proprietary design, only upper that works is the one designed for it. Standard uppers are a no go. |
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Posted: 1/22/2020 11:31:47 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I gather from PSA Facebook site the PSA ARV is a proprietary design, only upper that works is the one designed for it. Standard uppers are a no go. https://www.recoilweb.com/wraithworks-launches-warscorp9-scorpion-mag-ar-156724.html Never heard of the company though. Hopefully they sell just the upper and lower receiver set. |
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Posted: 1/23/2020 8:53:31 AM EST
[#26]
Looks like the poster never heard of Blitzkrieg Components / Hydraulic buffers. You knew the Germans would figure this stuff out. They master everything else.
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Posted: 1/23/2020 1:27:46 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like the poster never heard of Blitzkrieg Components / Hydraulic buffers. You knew the Germans would figure this stuff out. They master everything else. |
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Posted: 1/23/2020 6:36:55 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wonder how those work with something like CMMG's RDB system. Must make for some kind of smooth shoot... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like the poster never heard of Blitzkrieg Components / Hydraulic buffers. You knew the Germans would figure this stuff out. They master everything else. http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=538 
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Posted: 1/24/2020 10:56:08 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is my favorite setup....posted about it hundreds of times. http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=538 http://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Guard-556Tubb-9mmKynshot-A5.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like the poster never heard of Blitzkrieg Components / Hydraulic buffers. You knew the Germans would figure this stuff out. They master everything else. http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=538 http://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Guard-556Tubb-9mmKynshot-A5.jpg |
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Posted: 3/21/2020 11:09:57 AM EST
[#30]
I am running an 8-inch AR-9 upper from Moriarti Arms with a side-cocking handle and LRBHO (last round bolt hold open) assembly.
It is pinned to a New Frontier Armory AR-9 80% lower that I finished and outfitted with a Maxim Brace with the calibrated 9mm buffer and spring and a ALG Defense mil spec trigger. Sights are Troy tritium mini's cowitnessed with an Aimpoint T1 Micro. It has been an excellent gun. It has been very reliable having about 2,000 rounds through it with no hiccups whatsoever. Sure, there might be more elegant guns to shoot. Admittedly, my blowback AR-9 has a bit more of an abrupt recoil impulse. However, there are things I love about it. Commonality with standard AR15 components: Basically any triggers, hammers, safety selectors, pins, and springs that fit the AR15 will also fit my AR9. Magazine commonality: Virtually any 9mm magazine that fits a Glock 17 or a Glock 19 or any of the high-capacity Glock 33-round magazines or drums will fit and run just fine. Cost: They're cheaper/easier to buy, build, and maintain if anything breaks. I have upgraded my blowback AR9 with a POF match grade 4.5-pound single stage cartridge trigger, and a TACCOM extreme duty short stroke bolt that uses a standard AR15 extractor. Frankly...I will stick with my "inferior" blowback AR9's. They suit my needs and criteria just fine. In fact, I plan on building more. |
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Posted: 6/2/2020 11:45:16 PM EST
[#31]
Reading through a lot of this thread it just comes off as OP trying to sound smarter than everyone else and claiming he knows more than anyone about PCCs when they disagree with him. A lot of us here know the difference between roller delayed blowback, blowback, gas piston systems, etc.
I've owned an MP5, CZ Scorpion, and shot a full auto MP5, GHM9, Stribog, etc. I don't give a shit what type of action a gun uses as long as it is reliable, accurate, and of good quality. The CZ Scorpion is dead nuts reliable (sorry to hurt your feelings, OP), accurate, and of good quality. Now are you going to tell me because I prefer a gun that uses blowback that I don't know anything?  As someone else said the MP5 does shoot smooth, but that's where it ends. The Scorpion and APC both beat it in ergonomics, are as if not more reliable, and of great quality as well. And I am saying this as someone who loves the MP5 platform. I've seen Scorpions subjected to some brutal conditions and they continue to run. And also, I am going to call you a wuss for complaining about recoil on a 9mm PCC. I've never felt recoil on any of my 9mm PCCs was more than a 5.56 gun. Start shooting some magnum caliber rifles and maybe your soft little shoulder will stop worrying about love taps from straight blowback 9mm PCCs 
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Posted: 6/3/2020 12:19:02 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: (snip) And also, I am going to call you a wuss for complaining about recoil on a 9mm PCC. I've never felt recoil on any of my 9mm PCCs was more than a 5.56 gun. Start shooting some magnum caliber rifles and maybe your soft little shoulder will stop worrying about love taps from straight blowback 9mm PCCs This. Probably many of the people who claim 9mm is far too weak in a defensive handgun . Then, a straight blowback PCC with TWICE the recoil-absorbing weight as a handgun, and all of a sudden, its "Owie! My shoulder is being punished by these ferocious 9MM rounds! Where is my delayed blowback that will allow me to tame these vicious 9mm rounds???"  |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 1:57:13 PM EST
[#33]
Subgun/PCC/Whatever is a trade off, just like everything else there is no free lunch.
Want the same round in a smaller package? Get a standard pistol. But it doesn't have extra contact or mounting points. Want a more enjoyable experience? Get delayed. But it will be more expensive and complex. Want an affordable version? Get a blowback. But it will have more recoil than a delayed system. SA Subguns do one thing and that's give a larger platform to launch a handgun round out of while giving more points of contact. That's it. While a delayed system might be more pleasant it comes with its own drawbacks including higher cost and complexity. |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 10:40:48 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Probably many of the people who claim 9mm is far too weak in a defensive handgun . Then, a straight blowback PCC with TWICE the recoil-absorbing weight as a handgun, and all of a sudden, its "Owie! My shoulder is being punished by these ferocious 9MM rounds! Where is my delayed blowback that will allow me to tame these vicious 9mm rounds???" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: (snip) And also, I am going to call you a wuss for complaining about recoil on a 9mm PCC. I've never felt recoil on any of my 9mm PCCs was more than a 5.56 gun. Start shooting some magnum caliber rifles and maybe your soft little shoulder will stop worrying about love taps from straight blowback 9mm PCCs This. Probably many of the people who claim 9mm is far too weak in a defensive handgun . Then, a straight blowback PCC with TWICE the recoil-absorbing weight as a handgun, and all of a sudden, its "Owie! My shoulder is being punished by these ferocious 9MM rounds! Where is my delayed blowback that will allow me to tame these vicious 9mm rounds???" A blowback PCC generates for are more felt recoil than a handgun. A 9mm recoils considerably more than a 5.56. The purpose of recoil operation and gas operation is to reduce felt recoil of the moving parts. It's not about pain, it's about control, which is especially important on a pistol cartridge users expect to need several rapid hits from. |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 10:43:00 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Subgun/PCC/Whatever is a trade off, just like everything else there is no free lunch. Want the same round in a smaller package? Get a standard pistol. But it doesn't have extra contact or mounting points. Want a more enjoyable experience? Get delayed. But it will be more expensive and complex. Want an affordable version? Get a blowback. But it will have more recoil than a delayed system. SA Subguns do one thing and that's give a larger platform to launch a handgun round out of while giving more points of contact. That's it. While a delayed system might be more pleasant it comes with its own drawbacks including higher cost and complexity. They can also have an architecture that reduces muzzle rise better than a pistol, by how they position the bolt mass. These benefits are helpful on a SA PCC, but crucial on a full auto. |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 1:46:43 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A blowback PCC generates for are more felt recoil than a handgun. A 9mm recoils considerably more than a 5.56. The purpose of recoil operation and gas operation is to reduce felt recoil of the moving parts. it’s not to reduce the felt recoil. The larger the caliber the more you need to delay of the system to allow the pressure to go down.. a blowback 556 would be impossible & dangerous to make.. |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 2:54:13 PM EST
[#37]
Ive sold most of my blowback 9mms after getting a MPX.
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Posted: 6/7/2020 8:52:06 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: it’s not to reduce the felt recoil. The larger the caliber the more you need to delay of the system to allow the pressure to go down.. a blowback 556 would be impossible & dangerous to make.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A blowback PCC generates for are more felt recoil than a handgun. A 9mm recoils considerably more than a 5.56. The purpose of recoil operation and gas operation is to reduce felt recoil of the moving parts. it’s not to reduce the felt recoil. The larger the caliber the more you need to delay of the system to allow the pressure to go down.. a blowback 556 would be impossible & dangerous to make.. No, it'd just have an impractically heavy bolt mass, and possibly not enough spring force to feed mags reliably The HK33 is 5.56 and runs just fine, while its delay mechanism mimics a ~6lb bolt IIRC for the first portion of travel |
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