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Posted: 8/12/2009 6:25:01 AM EDT
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Hello -
I'm thinking of getting into reloading and I had a question regarding dies. I'm planning on investing in the RCBS Rock Chucker Master Kit, and I have been looking at 223 dies. It seems that there are a lot of different opinions on what I need, so I thought I would just come ask the question myself. I'll be reloading 223 for a Colt AR 15, 16" barrel, with a 1:7 twist. Can anyone offer a suggestion at which dies I should look at to reload for this caliber and weapon setup? Thanks, |
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Full Length die in AR15 = Fail.
Use a small base die. cases out of any S/A tend to get progressively fatter near the case rim, due to the chamber becoming hotter after repeated firing. If you full length size, after two loadings, you will start to get cases that don't fully chamber. I reload a significant amount of 5.56 a year. I started with a FL die, and later moved to a SB die, due to this exact problem |
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Dillon suggested Redding .223 dies back in the 80's I like the quality of them, they are machined very well. I have over 50,000 cycles through mine and are still great. These are full length standard dies. Although i use either a Dillon crimp or Lee Factory Crimp die
Edit: I did not like the Small base dies I only load for the AR15 And a Case Gauge GMan |
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Quoted:
Full Length die in AR15 = Fail. Use a small base die. cases out of any S/A tend to get progressively fatter near the case rim, due to the chamber becoming hotter after repeated firing. If you full length size, after two loadings, you will start to get cases that don't fully chamber. I reload a significant amount of 5.56 a year. I started with a FL die, and later moved to a SB die, due to this exact problem I reload and shoot a few k a year too, and have not had this problem, even with cases on their 5th reload, out of a semi-auto rifle. I think it's silly to go and buy everything the interweb says to get before starting. This being said, the Lee 223 die set with factory crimp die (so you have the option) is a great start. You can move to a small base resizing die later if you start having issues.
Nice to haves:
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Quoted:
Full Length die in AR15 = Fail. Use a small base die. cases out of any S/A tend to get progressively fatter near the case rim, due to the chamber becoming hotter after repeated firing. If you full length size, after two loadings, you will start to get cases that don't fully chamber. I reload a significant amount of 5.56 a year. I started with a FL die, and later moved to a SB die, due to this exact problem sounds like user error or your die wore out, if you shoot as much as you say carbide is the only way to go 
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You'll need a FL die set and either a case gage, comparitor or precision case mic to set it correctly. I don't think the brand really matters. I like ones with locking rings that actually lock (Lee has a rubber thingy instead of a real setscrew that keeps the lockring from moving). |
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I've found that most any die from any of the major mfns will do "good enough."
The differences are in the "little things." Take a look..........decide about how you want to handle it. Consider parts breakage (say a simple de-capping pin)........a trip down to the local store or do you need to send for a factory part? Dies....what's the differences (close up pics)............. RCBS......... http://www.gswagner.com/bigreloading/dies/dies.html Some of the Other Brands http://www.gswagner.com/bigreloading/dies/dies2.html Aloha, Mark PS..........I also subscribe to the F/L sizer for semi autos. IMHO............only IF you run into trouble then, consider a SB Die. |
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Cant believe you guys like the RCBS dies. Compared to Lee I think RCBS dies are total crap. Stuck case in Le die just bang it out. RCBS stuck case you have to go buy special tols to get it out then you probably destroyed the decap arm. Decap pin on the RCBS always breaks. Have not broke one on the Lee yet. Forget RCBS it is over priced and an under achiever. Now all the RCBS kiss asses will be along to say it is all my fault. |
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Cant believe you guys like the RCBS dies. Compared to Lee I think RCBS dies are total crap. Stuck case in Le die just bang it out. RCBS stuck case you have to go buy special tols to get it out then you probably destroyed the decap arm. Decap pin on the RCBS always breaks. Have not broke one on the Lee yet. Forget RCBS it is over priced and an under achiever. Now all the RCBS kiss asses will be along to say it is all my fault. Ever try to find a replacement de-cap pin (or expander/de-cap rod) for a LEE at the local store? Then, the LEE rod needs to be REALLY tight..........a lot of folks have come here looking to solve their de-capping problem because, they aren't aware. Then, the lock ring..........I just don't like that style of lock ring. Over time they seem to loosen and the dies move. And, if you remove dies, they are difficult to get a repeatable setting vs. the lock rings of some other brand (say RCBS). OK you could modify it but, that isn't the point. Then, the bullet seater on my LEE .308 dies..........it's made out of some kind of plastic (or nylon or whatever). But.........YMWV (maybe things have changed over the years) and I also recognize that some folks like things that way (the LEE way). Anyway, don't get me wrong............I own dies from LEE, RCBS, Honady, Redding, and maybe some other brands too. IMHO........they all may have some downside (depending on how you like things). And, for the record...........I use LEE carbide dies sets on all three of my LEE M1000 progressive machines. Aloha, Mark |
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Quoted: Cant believe you guys like the RCBS dies. Compared to Lee I think RCBS dies are total crap. Stuck case in Le die just bang it out. RCBS stuck case you have to go buy special tols to get it out then you probably destroyed the decap arm. Decap pin on the RCBS always breaks. Have not broke one on the Lee yet. Forget RCBS it is over priced and an under achiever. Now all the RCBS kiss asses will be along to say it is all my fault. I've got a big box of RCBS pins. If I break more than two in a decade, then the decapping pin is set too deep. I don't get stuck cases, but I did bend a Lee pin when I tried OneShot. |
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I've tried running cases through my AR that were NOT resized full legnth and they get stuck. Your gun will still shoot the rounds, but if you try to eject an unshot bullet it will jam. might have a tight chamber, wore out die, die might not be set right you dont by some chance have a match chamber do you? edit-just looked at your post again  ...think im goin to bed
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I have been using Forster dies for a few years and like them very much for my rifle brass.
I FL size for my AR. For my case guage I measure and use the RCBS Precision Mic for my rifle brass and like it very much. Reloading dies are kinda like shoes.....everyone has their favortie brand. Look at what you are wanting to do, features you want, and price you can afford. Then go from there. |
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Quoted:
I've tried running cases through my AR that were NOT resized full legnth and they get stuck. Your gun will still shoot the rounds, but if you try to eject an unshot bullet it will jam. I had that problem once and I forgot to turn past the point of contact with the shell holder. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Cant believe you guys like the RCBS dies. Compared to Lee I think RCBS dies are total crap. Stuck case in Le die just bang it out. RCBS stuck case you have to go buy special tols to get it out then you probably destroyed the decap arm. Decap pin on the RCBS always breaks. Have not broke one on the Lee yet. Forget RCBS it is over priced and an under achiever. Now all the RCBS kiss asses will be along to say it is all my fault. Ever try to find a replacement de-cap pin (or expander/de-cap rod) for a LEE at the local store? Then, the LEE rod needs to be REALLY tight..........a lot of folks have come here looking to solve their de-capping problem because, they aren't aware. Then, the lock ring..........I just don't like that style of lock ring. Over time they seem to loosen and the dies move. And, if you remove dies, they are difficult to get a repeatable setting vs. the lock rings of some other brand (say RCBS). OK you could modify it but, that isn't the point. Then, the bullet seater on my LEE .308 dies..........it's made out of some kind of plastic (or nylon or whatever). But.........YMWV (maybe things have changed over the years) and I also recognize that some folks like things that way (the LEE way). Anyway, don't get me wrong............I own dies from LEE, RCBS, Honady, Redding, and maybe some other brands too. IMHO........they all may have some downside (depending on how you like things). And, for the record...........I use LEE carbide dies sets on all three of my LEE M1000 progressive machines. Aloha, Mark Yes the Lee rod has to be really tight but I use wrenches and leave it set that way. The die does turn but I use a spot of super glue. Guess I never can get my RCBS adjusted properly cause I break pins with in the first few shell. |
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I would say that 90% of my dies are rcbs. I just finished reloading some 270 win rounds with lee dies. I have no problems with the resizing die after I replace the lock ring with a better one. The problem I have is with the bullet seating die. Reloading only 50 rounds, the seating dept varied .006 to .007, Mabe it is just me,
JW |
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carbide full length dillion redding rcbs are all good +1 Don't buy Lee's Rifle dies. I had Lee's .223 Pacesetter dies, after spending many hours trying to figure out why every single case would come out with a different headspace, I bought Redding dies (Only $34.99) and the Redding Carbide Expander ball (About $20), Now my headspace very consistant! I don't plan on buying anything but Redding dies in the future. As for the people saying NOT to buy Carbide die's for Rifle, they just don't have a clue. A Carbide expander ball makes ALL the difference in the world. You still have to lube the OUTSIDE of the case, which is easy to due with some spray lube. But no need to lube the INSIDE case neck and the carbide expander ball wont "Pull" the neck out of spec on extraction like a non-carbide expander ball will. -Masta |
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Masta,
When fefu23 mentioned about carbide for rifle brass...........I doubt that he was talking about a carbide expander ball. Yes, they are two different things, re-sizer die vs. expander ball. Aloha, Mark PS.......I agree about the carbide expander ball. Me.......I just never got around to buying replacements for my RCBS dies. I just put a little lube on the expander ball and put more when I hear it squeek. As for the carbide rifle resizer die.......they are too expensive for my taste. |
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Masta, When fefu23 mentioned about carbide for rifle brass...........I doubt that he was talking about a carbide expander ball. Yes, they are two different things, re-sizer die vs. expander ball. Aloha, Mark PS.......I agree about the carbide expander ball. Me.......I just never got around to buying replacements for my RCBS dies. I just put a little lube on the expander ball and put more when I hear it squeek. As for the carbide rifle resizer die.......they are too expensive for my taste. true, but he does bring up another valid point why to have one as far as the cost, also agree. thats why 223 is the only one i have, had way to many stuck cases before i got it(4). its a dillion, and cranks shells out with little to no effort even if i went skimpy on the lube,or have that one in the batch that didnt get as much as the rest. love it and glad i picked it up |
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My $.02 on Dies:
- My #1 and #2 Brand preference, respectively, is Redding then Forester for bottleneck Rifle Cartridges. Lee's .223 die is an exception, for the decapper design is good for crimped primers, so Lee is also desired. For hunting brass, when neck sizing, I also like the Lee collet dies. (Redding dies preferred for good/neck-turned brass that gets neck sized.) - For pistol dies, I like Dillon #1, then Redding. I do like Lee factory crimp dies, when a taper crimp is desired. (Dillon's roll-crimp is great for revolver cartridges. Yet the Lee FCD is my preference for taper crimps.) For micrometer seating dies, I prefer Redding, but the Forester micrometer dies are a very good deal. The only dies I avoid are Hornady dies. I've a friend who has nothing but trouble with their rifle dies, getting brass stuck in them, even with Dillon lube (or Imperial Wax). My impression, FWIW, is that the internal surfaces are not as polished. I dunno if it is true, but I do see more internet posts on stuck brass with Hornady dies. (And we all know, some of these cases may be self-inflicted.) So again, this impression on Hornady dies is based on other's experiences. |
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My $.02 on Dies: - My #1 and #2 Brand preference, respectively, is Redding then Forester for bottleneck Rifle Cartridges. Lee's .223 die is an exception, for the decapper design is good for crimped primers, so Lee is also desired. For hunting brass, when neck sizing, I also like the Lee collet dies. (Redding dies preferred for good/neck-turned brass that gets neck sized.) - For pistol dies, I like Dillon #1, then Redding. I do like Lee factory crimp dies, when a taper crimp is desired. (Dillon's roll-crimp is great for revolver cartridges. Yet the Lee FCD is my preference for taper crimps.) For micrometer seating dies, I prefer Redding, but the Forester micrometer dies are a very good deal. The only dies I avoid are Hornady dies. I've a friend who has nothing but trouble with their rifle dies, getting brass stuck in them, even with Dillon lube (or Imperial Wax). My impression, FWIW, is that the internal surfaces are not as polished. I dunno if it is true, but I do see more internet posts on stuck brass with Hornady dies. (And we all know, some of these cases may be self-inflicted.) So again, this impression on Hornady dies is based on other's experiences. +1 have a set of redding comp. dies for my 308/m1a, and couldnt be happier the only thing i see being better is a custom set |
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Well, you folks can put me into the Lee camp.
I have an RCBS X-Die for 223, but here is why I like the Lee dies:
Most have been mentioned before. I generally start with Lee, and unless there is something they can't do for me, that's what I use. Incidentally, the last 1500 223 cases were resized with the Lee die, and that worked just fine too. Why? I had to check out if what the naysayers were saying was true, and I had a stuck case in the X-die and was waiting for the parts ;) |
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I use a mix of Hornady and Lee Dies, I like the Hornady sizer die (never had a stuck case except with Lyman aerosol spray lube, JUNK), it's very consistent with head space measurements, the zip spindle prevents broken decapping pins(I use a universal RCBS decapping die first before cleaning the case to begin with) and the expander ball once polished is slick as ice and doesn't affect head space at all. It's best to turn the expander ball up in the die when resizing so the case is more centered and supported when pulling past the expander ball, it helps with run out and I leave mine this way since I decap separate.
I use the Hornady seater die with Micro adjuster and bullet guide, this also helps with run out and it's way more consistent than the Lee(the ones that say it's not must be measuring OAL instead of from the ogive were the bullet actually seats from). I do use the Lee FCD since it's the best crimp die out there. And if loading pistol I use a Lee case expander/ powder through die and an auto disk powder measure with the Micro adjust charge bar since its very consistent on the turret press(pistol is the only thing I load on the turret press, I load all rifle brass on a single stage Breech lock since there is no die setup after each die change due to the quick change inserts and it's much more accurate) So I have Lee dies for .223, .40 S&W, & 6.8 SPC and also have the same Hornady dies, and SB dies are not needed for either of them when setup properly and I even have a SAMMI 6.8 chamber(the tightest one) and the regular FL dies are just fine. |
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Not to sound like blue koolaid guy but........
For most things Dillon dies seem to work best for me. For progressives I feel they are the best. I have 2 sets of Dillon 223 dies. Both carbide. No you do not need them, but the last and they are smoother than steel. The first set I got 15 years ago. I have easily 250,000 rounds through it and it is still sizing properly. For other single stage operations I use Lee because of cost and function. |
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