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Posted: 6/8/2009 11:33:53 AM EDT
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I understand that the price of ammunition is is very expensive right now but why would any one convert a rifle or pistol to shoot 22LR?
Like an AR15 or a G3 or a Glock Pistol? The problem that I see is, the Ruger 10/22 is just to good of a 22LR rifle to want to shoot anyting else and for $225 and another $200 in aftermarket parts you can not beat the 10/22 for the best 22LR shooter out there. Let's say you have an AR15 and for a few hundred buck you can purchase a 22LR conversion kit in order to save money on the high price of 223. The 10/22 fits the bill 10X's what a AR does. AR's and 223 go together like peanut butter and jelly, who really wants to shoot 22LR out of a gun that shoots 223 so 'right'? |
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Train with what you use. An AR with a .22 coversion allows one to train with inexpensive ammo exactly like "the real thing". [Save for a less noise and recoil]
I have .22 conversions for all my "go to" firearm types if they were made. AR, 1911, Glock. You can shoot a WHOLE lot more and still save $$$$$. |
| I have a Ciener conversion for my ARs and a Marvel conversion for my 1911s. I do this mainly to shoot those triggers with cheaper ammo. A separate pistol or rifle in .22 is nice and fun but does not increase my trigger time on the main weapons I want to fire a lot. |
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The 10/22 fits the bill 10X's what a AR does. AR's and 223 go together like peanut butter and jelly, who really wants to shoot 22LR out of a gun that shoots 223 so 'right'? Me. Have you shot a conversion or dedicated upper yet? Its good stuff. I dunno about yours but my 10/22 operates a hell of a lot differently than my dedicated .22 or my 604 with conversion. With an AR and conversion you already have a battle rifle. You already have the iron sights, compatibility with other optics. The same type of mags the list goes on. Try to do a tactical reload on a 10/22. Its not close to being the same. With a 10/22 you still have a squirrel rifle that is pretending to be something else. With a conversion you have a battle rifle or you can make and EXACT clone of your SHTF carbine that can shoot .22. Don't get me wrong I like 10/22's but I like mine with a DSP stock and a nice GM sporter barrel and some good glass. I never bought into the whole liberty training rifle thing. It made sense at one point when the .22 ar market wasn't as developed now just get a dedicated AR or 1/12 twist and conversion. It may be considerably cheaper than an AR especially if you can find a 10/22 at a pawn shop but it is no where similar to an AR conversion. Even if you do give up maybe a little accuracy to the 10/22 with a conversion what does that matter? There are plenty more accurate .22's than a 10/22 if you are into the paper punching. |
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Another example is, driving a Ferrari with a 4 cylinder Toyota engine because you 'want to save money on gas'. Sure it looks good on the outside but there nothing under the hood!
I see most guns as package deals and shooting 22LR through a gun that is designed to shoot 223 or even 308 doesn't seem like a very fun 'ride'. Let's be honest, a Ruger 10/22 does the whole 22LR the best, why waste money on a 22LR conversion and neuter a fine weapon? Is it really that fun to shoot a AR-15 in 22LR? 223 is a great round for this platform. |
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You don't have to "neuter" the whole weapon.......buy a dedicated upper and call it good. That's what I did and I've already put more rounds through it in the past 8 months than I put through my 10/22s in the last 10 years. Before the dedicated Spikes upper, my 22 rifle use consisted mostly of a Marlin tube fed rifle and a Henry lever action....both nice, accurate 22s but more reliable in terms of feeding/ejecting than any of my 10/22s.
My Spikes is only marginally less reliable than my 10/22s (maybe 1-2 failures every 200-300 rounds) and it's a helluva lot more fun to shoot. To each his own. If you like 10/22s....more power to you. There are certainly tons of people that agree with you. Just remember: it ain't your money and I'll spend it as I see fit; you're free to do the same. JMO, Sean |
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Let's be honest, a Ruger 10/22 does the whole 22LR the best Define best? is the 10/22 the best .22 for training on the ar platform.... no Is it the best squirrel rifle I am going to say no. I have a marlin in 17hm2 that is my goto for small critters. The 10/22 is what it is. It is a hunting rifle based .22. It is accurate with the right barrels and can take high capacity mags(as an after thought ). It is a decent .22 but it is not an AR15 based weapon. Therefore makes it not the best for using as a training tool for an ar15. just pulling the trigger ala appleseed is not the end all of being trained to use a rifle in combat situations. It is much easier to simulate shooting an ar15, switching mags, using a light to clear rooms etc. When you are shooting an actual ar15 not a 10/22. There is also no "neutering" an ar15 by shooting .22 out of them. that is silly. you swap the bolt with a conversion. you have your cake and eat it too. if you are shooting a 1/7 barrel with .22 yeah it becomes less fun because the .22 get thrown everywhere. but with a retro 1/12 or even a 1/9 it shoots fine. Then when you want to shoot .223 you swap bolts and away you go. Its about options. I have a conversion and a 1/12 retro and one spikes dedicated upper. I swap parts between these and all of my ARs. I want to put this rail light optic whatever on the dedicated .22 I can. I want to use a different lower I swap it around I want to shoot .223 out of it I can pull the barrel and swap in a different one. If SHTF I can canablize the .22 and use it parts to have another battle rifle if needed. Or I can hand my buddy the 10/22 and say go out and get us some squak for lunch. It gives you MORE options not less. I am wondering what you think about 9mm ar's. Neutered or not? |
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How exactly does a conversion kit neuter an AR...all you do is swap bolts. Nothing permanent and in 3 seconds (no shit really) you can be back to blasting 223. And how exactly does shooting a 10/22 help you train on you AR? Yeah accuracy from the kits isn't pinpoint, however it's good enough for training and doing drills. |
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One case of 5.56 Wolf ammunition: $270 (give or take) –– 1000 rounds
CMMG .22lr Kit: $200 5 525rd Federal 40gr Bulk Packs: $68 –– 2625 rounds In terms of pure rounds downrange, the expensive convo kits pay for themselves in under 1000 rounds. For introducing newer shooters, they're invaluable. Honestly, it brings me out to the range more often just because I can't use ammunition cost as an excuse. ETA: The 4cyl Ferrari analogy doesn't match up - it's more like making a Formula 1 car into a hybrid. Sounds dumb at first, but in practice the results are much better than you would have expected. It's an easy receiver pin dance away from being back to full on .223. I'm actually having decent accuracy results with my 1:7 barrels converted to .22 - am I just not shooting far enough? |
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Quoted:
Another example is, driving a Ferrari with a 4 cylinder Toyota engine because you 'want to save money on gas'. Sure it looks good on the outside but there nothing under the hood! I see most guns as package deals and shooting 22LR through a gun that is designed to shoot 223 or even 308 doesn't seem like a very fun 'ride'. Let's be honest, a Ruger 10/22 does the whole 22LR the best, why waste money on a 22LR conversion and neuter a fine weapon? Is it really that fun to shoot a AR-15 in 22LR? 223 is a great round for this platform. One of the dumbest posts on a conversion I've ever seen. Do you own an AR15 conversion? Do you own an AR15 dedicated upper? Do you really think a stock Ruger 10/22 does the whole 22LR the best? The best out of all 22LR rifles available? Exactly how does a .22lr conversion neuter a fine weapon? Enlighten us all. |
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One of the dumbest posts on a conversion I've ever seen. Do you own an AR15 conversion? Do you own an AR15 dedicated upper? Do you really think a stock Ruger 10/22 does the whole 22LR the best? The best out of all 22LR rifles available? Exactly how does a .22lr conversion neuter a fine weapon? Enlighten us all. I am not sure about 'dumbest'..... Look at it this way, five years ago when 223 and 308 could be purchased for $150/1000 the 22LR conversion kits wher far and few between, Now that ammunition has jumped three-fold suddenly everyone is talking 22LR conversion kits. All as I am saying it that there is much better platforms to shoot 22LR than a AR-15. I am certain most people own both AR's and dedicated 22LR guns like the Henry, Winchester, Ruger or what ever it may be. Shoot the AR as it was intented to be shot like a battle rifle and the Ruger as it was intended to be shot. For me the AR's and others stay in the safe more often now that ammunition is very expensive and hard to get and the cheaper ammunition guns come out to play more often. As a side note, want the most bag for the buck, two words, Mosin Nagant! Maybe 'Neuter' wasn't the best choice of words, maybe 'Temporarly Neutered'. Also, yes I own a H&K G3 with a 22LR converions kit. After shooting this several times I think to my self, sure I have save alot of money in ammunition, possibly even enough to pay for the conversion kit itself but, it is a joke shooting this tiny round through a rifle that can perform so much better. I think the car analogy still works great to emphasis my point, you would not stick a Toyota four cylinder engine in a Ferrari just to save money on gas! |
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Yeah, it is cheaper to go spend $200.00 for a Ruger 10/22 and then dump another $250.00 into it to get it to shoot well and accurately.
Or take an AR15 you already have, spend $139.00 for a Ciener conversion and with the difference in price from a stock Ruger 10/22 you can purchase 2200 rounds of bulk federal 22LR. Save the AR15 to shoot .223. Yeah right @ $450.00 a thousand rounds. Either that or leave the rifle in the safe? 
I've had over 8 ARs, have had plenty more AKs, along with a large number of other firearms. I have over 40,000 rounds of ammunition for these firearms. Now if I am going to take my 8 year old niece out and familiarize her with the operation of an AR15 am I going to have her shoot .223/5.56 ammo at $225.00 for a day of shooting the AR15 or let her shoot all day with .22LR ammo in the AR15 at a cost of $14.00? Understand? |
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For me the AR's and others stay in the safe more often now that ammunition is very expensive and hard to get and the cheaper ammunition guns come out to play more often. I think the car analogy still works great to emphasis my point, you would not stick a Toyota four cylinder engine in a Ferrari just to save money on gas! That's the point, so the AR's don't have to stay in the safe. Another thing that's a miss with your analogy is that an AR is like a pickup truck that gets used. A Ferrari is not really a daily driver car, the owners of Ferrari's that I know do not drive them all the time, maybe one day a week or twice a month. A Ferrari would be more like a 50cal Barrett. An AR being like a truck. Nevertheless, I'm sure this summer when gas prices go back up, truck and Ferrari owners would like the option to change to a 4 cyl engine in about 3 seconds. Then when a truck needs to carry the load, swap back to the big motor. |
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One of the dumbest posts on a conversion I've ever seen. Do you own an AR15 conversion? Do you own an AR15 dedicated upper? Do you really think a stock Ruger 10/22 does the whole 22LR the best? The best out of all 22LR rifles available? Exactly how does a .22lr conversion neuter a fine weapon? Enlighten us all. I am not sure about 'dumbest'..... Look at it this way, five years ago when 223 and 308 could be purchased for $150/1000 the 22LR conversion kits wher far and few between, Now that ammunition has jumped three-fold suddenly everyone is talking 22LR conversion kits. All as I am saying it that there is much better platforms to shoot 22LR than a AR-15. I am certain most people own both AR's and dedicated 22LR guns like the Henry, Winchester, Ruger or what ever it may be. Shoot the AR as it was intented to be shot like a battle rifle and the Ruger as it was intended to be shot. For me the AR's and others stay in the safe more often now that ammunition is very expensive and hard to get and the cheaper ammunition guns come out to play more often. As a side note, want the most bag for the buck, two words, Mosin Nagant! Maybe 'Neuter' wasn't the best choice of words, maybe 'Temporarly Neutered'. Also, yes I own a H&K G3 with a 22LR converions kit. After shooting this several times I think to my self, sure I have save alot of money in ammunition, possibly even enough to pay for the conversion kit itself but, it is a joke shooting this tiny round through a rifle that can perform so much better. I think the car analogy still works great to emphasis my point, you would not stick a Toyota four cylinder engine in a Ferrari just to save money on gas! Sorry, now this just sounds like backpeddling and making excuses for an ignorant comment. JMO, Sean |
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For me its simple, I dont have to wait 10 days to buy another 22lr rifle, the way its pictured below would be illegal in Ca if it was in .223
I also first thought why shoot a tiny little bullet out of an Ar, such a waste of a rifle until I bought the conversion kit, I never had as much fun because in Ca there are to many rules to follow for centerfire rifles, I would never shoot it. Now ive shot more 22lr then any other caliber since I got the conversion bolt. I can use a rifle im familiar with and have fun, thats all I care about. 
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Another example is, driving a Ferrari with a 4 cylinder Toyota engine because you 'want to save money on gas'. Sure it looks good on the outside but there nothing under the hood! I think your analogy is flawed and please, don't take offense. You see, an AR with a 22 conversion is like a Ferrari with an engine that is capable to deactivate to 4 cylinder mode. I hope that helps better explain that analogy. The local range calls me a "rimfire nut" because I got conversions from the AR to the PTR. Now to find that Uzi conversion, anybody got leads? |
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I use my conversion to run practice drills. There is nothing better to practice with than your primary weapon, regardless of caliber. The conversion allows me to practice all the fundementals with my primary weapon without breaking the bank. There is no change in my setup between 22lr and .223, optics remain the same also. I use full size Black Dog mags so I can keep my kit the same also and practice mag changes.
When you shoot 1K+ each session it gets expensive but with the conversion the cost is more manageable. No matter how much money you throw at a 10/22 it will never have the same feel or shooting characteristics as a AR. 10/22's are great guns for those who like to tinker. Out of the box 10/22's are probably some of the worst guns out there when you consider accuracy, ergonomics and the trigger. Fortunately all of these problems can be changed by the end user and that is why they are so popular. I have a few 10/22's and really like them but they will never replace my AR. Dolomite |
I have been shooting the 10/22 for as long as they have made them, and though Bill Ruger builds a fine firearm, I much prefer my AR15 with it's dedicated .22 rimfire upper. Mine is not a made by changing out the bolt carrier group with a conversion to shoot the .22 rimfire down the .223/556 barrel. Is built from the gound up to shoot the .22 rimfire and does it exceptionally well. I truly love the look and feel of the gun over the 10/22 and the accuracy is on Target grade level. The Black Dog Mags have ben flawless and complete the look while holding plenty of rounds. I went ahead and found a stripper AR15 lower that I built up myself and mounted the .22 upper on it, thus leaving the Bushmaster in one piece. I still bring out the old 10/22, but when I take them both to the range with friends and their children and grandchildren, the AR gets chosen to shoot more than the 10/22 by 2 to 1.
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That's the point, so the AR's don't have to stay in the safe. This comment makes the most sense of all. Who wants to own a $1000-$1500(even $2000+) rifle that never gets shot and just takes up room in the safe? If the price of ammunition is a big modivator 223 versus 22LR which it is for a lot of people it is, and you don't want to keep the rifles in the safe, 22LR conversions make a lot of sense. That way people can contiue to pactice on a familar platform and not break the bank. Some people are also probably making the most of of a bad situation and dealing with high ammunition prices by going to plan B, this is most likely why 22LR conversions are more popular than even. |
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I use my conversion to run practice drills. There is nothing better to practice with than your primary weapon, regardless of caliber. The conversion allows me to practice all the fundementals with my primary weapon without breaking the bank. There is no change in my setup between 22lr and .223, optics remain the same also. I use full size Black Dog mags so I can keep my kit the same also and practice mag changes. When you shoot 1K+ each session it gets expensive but with the conversion the cost is more manageable. No matter how much money you throw at a 10/22 it will never have the same feel or shooting characteristics as a AR. 10/22's are great guns for those who like to tinker. Out of the box 10/22's are probably some of the worst guns out there when you consider accuracy, ergonomics and the trigger. Fortunately all of these problems can be changed by the end user and that is why they are so popular. I have a few 10/22's and really like them but they will never replace my AR. Dolomite Stop using logic and making sense damnit! |
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