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300 Blackout Master Thread (Page 81 of 82)
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200gr Maker REX at 1025fps (around 900 upon impact). Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Mav3rick: I am having issues resizing with a Lee 300.bo resizing die. The expander pin keeps getting pushed out. What should the measurement be for the expander at the widest point? Also how far out of the bottom of the die should it stick out? Thanks If you want to be exact slowly lower decapping stem until primer is knocked out + 1/2 turn. |
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Originally Posted By Mav3rick: I am having issues resizing with a Lee 300.bo resizing die. The expander pin keeps getting pushed out. What should the measurement be for the expander at the widest point? Also how far out of the bottom of the die should it stick out? Thanks Should be .002 to .003 smaller than bullet diameter. When you say expander pin, do you mean decapping stem? |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: First question, you mean the expander ball? Should be .002 to .003 smaller than bullet diameter. When you say expander pin, do you mean decapping stem? Yes to both. I meant the diameter of expander ball and how far should the decapping portion be sticking out from the bottom. I tried resizing some 300bo that were lubed and it pushed the expander ball/decapping stem out. The stem got stuck inside the case and l couldn't get it out I had to take a Dremel and carefully cut along the side of the case to get the case off of it. It scratched some of the stem so l took some 600grit sandpaper and cleaned up the scratches. I put it back in and tightened it back up but it keeps happening. |
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Maybe you need some lube on the inside of the case mouths? How tight is the collet? Tighten this a little until this stops. A little at a time, don't crank it down. A fine ballance is what you are looking for. Too lose raises up. Too tight and decapping stem will not raise up when a Berdan case is encountered and you bend decapping stem. |
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Originally Posted By tommee-boy-72: Pull up your pantys and tighten the rod up. I never could figure why everyone runs these so loose. We are coaching him up. What is common sense to us is unknown to him. 
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: Easy now, he is a new reloader and just doesn't know. We are coaching him up. What is common sense to us is unknown to him. Lol. It's fine. I have some thick skin so l am not offended. And for the record l wasn't running it loose. That how it came from Lee as it is from a new die set l bought recently. I am not new to reloading but new to reloading 300 BO. Thanks DF. I will set it per your recommendations and see how it goes |
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Originally Posted By Mav3rick: Lol. It's fine. I have some thick skin so l am not offended. And for the record l wasn't running it loose. That how it came from Lee as it is from a new die set l bought recently. I am not new to reloading but new to reloading 300 BO. Thanks DF. I will set it per your recommendations and see how it goes Sorry for calling you new, it's just I have explained how to adjust a collet on a Lee die several times. The lesson here is to neve assume die are set when you get them (new or not). Best practice is to dissemble them, clean, lubricate, and reassemble and adjust. |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: Thick skin or not, we are a technical forum where we post in a friendly non condescending mannor. Sorry for calling you new, it's just I have explained how to adjust a collet on a Lee die several times. The lesson here is to neve assume die are set when you get them (new or not). Best practice is to dissemble them, clean, lubricate, and reassemble and adjust. No worries. Appreciate you and your willingness to always help me out! |
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Originally Posted By Mav3rick: No worries. Appreciate you and your willingness to always help me out!  |
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Ok, so I got my resizing die sorted out. I proceeded to make two dummy rounds (no primers or powder) to see if my processes are good. The finished rounds won't gauge now in either of my case gauges. I am hoping you guys can help me out. Here are the steps I did. 1) Wet tumbled. 2) Deprimed on the Lee APP deluxe with Lee Universal Depriming die. 3) lubed with homemade dillon lube recipe and resized them with my Lee 300 BO Resizing die. 4) Checked them with case gauges. Cases dropped right into both gauges no problem. 5) Trimmed cases so they were between 1.358 and 1.367. 6) Using Lyman M1 Neck flaring die, flared necks enough to accept the two different projectiles I want to try to use. They are both 220 gr 308 dia projectiles 7) Seated each projectile to around 2.15 (I was using some factory 220 gr ammo as a reference). 8) Using a Lee 300BO Crimp die, lightly crimped the case necks. So when I try to drop them into either of my case gauges (sheridan cut away slotted gauge and EGW case gauge) they don't drop in but get stuck part way. They go in part way -bout 2-3cm of the case end sticks out. I am not sure what I am doing wrong so I am hoping you guys can help. I took a bunch of pictures to help. See below. 220gr Projectiles  Some pics of them in the case gauge after resizing.    Some pics of them after trimming.   Pic of them after flaring case neck. I did it just enough so that they would sit in there. The black projectile doesn't quite sit straight but I can always slightly flare the cases a bit more for those.  Some pics of them after seating the projectiles showing OAL before crimping.   Pic of them crimped.  Lastly pics showing how they finished rounds no longer gauge.    Hope you can help me figure out what I did wrong. Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By Mav3rick: Pic of them crimped. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240449/completed_rounds-3718908.jpg Lastly pics showing how they finished rounds no longer gauge. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240449/wont_gauge_3-3718911.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240449/wont_gauge2-3718910.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240449/wont_gauge1-3718909.jpg Hope you can help me figure out what I did wrong. Thanks! Waaaaaaayyyyyy too much crimp. You are most likely buckling the shoulders. Dont think of it as a crimp. Think of it as a flare removal. |
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Originally Posted By Mav3rick: Do you think that's what is causing it not to gauge? I followed the Lee instructions. With press ram raised all the way up, l ran die down until it just touched the shell plate, the. Lowered ram and turned die in another 1/2 turn then tightened lock ring Think of the instructions as a guideline or ballpark. Each press, die, brass, shell and shell holder can behave differently. A thousandth here and a thousandth there….its can stack up and cause issues. Trial and error, until you figure it out. Keep trying and keep asking questions, the datum will help you get there. Yes, that crimp is extreme. |
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Originally Posted By Mav3rick: Do you think that's what is causing it not to gauge? I followed the Lee instructions. With press ram raised all the way up, l ran die down until it just touched the shell plate, the. Lowered ram and turned die in another 1/2 turn then tightened lock ring Way, Way too much crimp. I can tell you used Lee's instructions. Lee's die instructions are horrible. I have probably posted my method of adjustment about a hundred times over the years. Here is how to properly set a rifle FCD with a crimping collet. Die in press, look straight down at it. Note the 4 slots and the spaces between the 4 piece collet. Back that die out several turns and slowly screw it in until the slots close 1/3 third of the way. When the cartridge is all the way up in the die. That's a normal crimp, a heavy crimp is half way closed. Heavy crimp is for dangerous game.  Pic of 30-30 with cast bullets crimped with a FCD. Top case no crimp. Bottom case properly crimped. You want to barely see the case mouth bent inward. |
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Questions for those that use the HF 2" chop saw. I've got mine set up using a 3d printed jig, cut less than ten cases, but the saw is binding. The belt is rattling a bit. I did buy the saw nearly 10 years ago and only now using it  Replace the belt? I was also looking at abrasive cutting wheels instead of the chinsy HF toothed blade.  
Thoughts from those that have used these saws? |
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Thanks guys for your responses. Dry flash-I am trying to understand your instructions on setting the Lee FCD die but wondering what the starting point is. Should l run the die down like it says until it touches the shell plate all the way up on my RL550 and then back the die off watching through the top or should l just watch from the top as l screw in the die until l see the the 4 legs partially close? So l do this with the round up in the die or just the die first then trying crimping? What do you guys think of the rest of my process? Anything l am doing wrong there? Thanks |
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Originally Posted By TribunusSanGeorgii: Questions for those that use the HF 2" chop saw. I've got mine set up using a 3d printed jig, cut less than ten cases, but the saw is binding. The belt is rattling a bit. I did buy the saw nearly 10 years ago and only now using it Replace the belt? I was also looking at abrasive cutting wheels instead of the chinsy HF toothed blade. www.amazon.com/dp/B08QCTYSPP Thoughts from those that have used these saws? I agree, sounds like you need a new belt. Those blades look good, I would try them. If you do, please report back! I am interested in better cutting performance. I have been changing out the metal toothy chinesium blades more often. I have been thinking of sizing BEFORE cutting, anyone doing that? |
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When setting up a FCD crimp die (not the sizing die), I use a rockchucker or a Lee handpress - not the 550 - so don't know how it would be done on that press, but probably similar... The (ram) case should be fully up in the press. Screw the FCD down until it touches the case mouth - then look at the gaps around the collet and go from there per his method. The die bottom may be close to the shellplate or not. Your sized cases look OK in the gages, fixing the crimp should fix the loaded round. That is probably all you will have to do unless you start fine tuning. I know SAAMI says max case length is 1.368 (-.020). IMO trimming to over 1.360 is a little long but it is in spec... I typically trim to 1.355 ~1.358 and let them grow over time.(saves me a couple steps on future reloads) The shorter case length will also affect how much you have to screw in the FCD to get your crimp. |
| I used to make cases from used 223 and still have the toothy blade on the chopsaw. I do have the smooth one as a replacement still in the package. It's been a few years but IIRC I used to run the cases up in the sizing die w/o stem to squeeze the upper body down before cutting. My reasoning was to avoid the cut burr from scratching my dies and having to chamfer before and also after forming. I turned the necks for the final trim and sizing with the expander in place. It's too much work so I now frequently pick up properly headstamped brass at the range. |
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Originally Posted By Mav3rick: Thanks guys for your responses. Dry flash-I am trying to understand your instructions on setting the Lee FCD die but wondering what the starting point is. Do not adjust by shellplate position. Those instructions are horrible and incorrect. Start, die out of press. Case with seated bullet run all the way up. Press handle will be all the way down. Now slowly screw die into press. Stop when you feel resistance. Lower press ram, turn die in 1/2 turn. Run ram all the way up. How much did the gap between the collet close? If it closed 1/3, then you are good. Visually inspect the crimp, compare to my pic. If gap stayed open, that's ok, turn die down again 1/2 turn. Repeat as necessary. Check again and repeat until gap closed 1/3 of the way. Check round in case gauge. So l do this with the round up in the die Yes that when you are checking the gap between the collets. What do you guys think of the rest of my process? Anything l am doing wrong there? You were fine until you got to the crimp. Thanks |
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: Dryflash3's advice on the crimping die is spot on. I've followed it for quite a while and it applies to any Lee rifle FCD. Watching how close together the collet edges are is an easy way to monitor and control the amount of crimp. Don't know if I'm the originator, but nobody helped me to develop it. |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: One of my better techniques I came up with. Don't know if I'm the originator, but nobody helped me to develop it. You should claim it.  I am going to print those instructions up and keep them withy reloading stuff. I also plan on redoing my 223/556 Lee FCD crimping die as well with those instructions because l am probably over crimping those too. If you have any other suggestions for my steps above please let me know. Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By Mav3rick: You should claim it. I am going to print those instructions up and keep them withy reloading stuff. I also plan on redoing my 223/556 Lee FCD crimping die as well with those instructions because l am probably over crimping those too. If you have any other suggestions for my steps above please let me know. Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By RWEIII: I agree, sounds like you need a new belt. Those blades look good, I would try them. If you do, please report back! I am interested in better cutting performance. I have been changing out the metal toothy chinesium blades more often. I have been thinking of sizing BEFORE cutting, anyone doing that? Originally Posted By RWEIII: Originally Posted By TribunusSanGeorgii: Questions for those that use the HF 2" chop saw. I've got mine set up using a 3d printed jig, cut less than ten cases, but the saw is binding. The belt is rattling a bit. I did buy the saw nearly 10 years ago and only now using it Replace the belt? I was also looking at abrasive cutting wheels instead of the chinsy HF toothed blade. www.amazon.com/dp/B08QCTYSPP Thoughts from those that have used these saws? I agree, sounds like you need a new belt. Those blades look good, I would try them. If you do, please report back! I am interested in better cutting performance. I have been changing out the metal toothy chinesium blades more often. I have been thinking of sizing BEFORE cutting, anyone doing that? I figured out my problem with the HF 2" chop saw The one toothed wheel that drives the blade has a set screw that backed out on me....  Attached File I got that screw set back where it should be and chopped about 30 cases in just a few minutes  The abrasive wheels linked above are working fine for now, but I still dont have long term experience and I havent yet had a chance to give it a fair comparison with the included toothed blade. |
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Originally Posted By TribunusSanGeorgii: I figured out my problem with the HF 2" chop saw The one toothed wheel that drives the blade has a set screw that backed out on me.... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/408270/1000012594_jpg-3720123.JPG I got that screw set back where it should be and chopped about 30 cases in just a few minutes The abrasive wheels linked above are working fine for now, but I still dont have long term experience and I havent yet had a chance to give it a fair comparison with the included toothed blade. Good to know, I will go over mine next time I get it out! |
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Originally Posted By SyberSniper: @RWEIII I went back thru some old pics and found this example... form then hack em... I think I will try doing it that way just to see next time, thank you! |
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Originally Posted By SyberSniper: Pretty much all the reformed brass should be neck turned as the original 556 body is usually too thick when made into a neck. That's one reason I like picking up 300BLK brass at the range- don't have to mess with the brass. I mainly use LC and other US headstamps. I have yet to turn a neck and I am feeding 4 different 300 Whisper/Blackouts. |
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: I chop the .223 cases, then anneal, then size (forming the BO neck), then trim to length, but this photo really demonstrates the process for someone who hasn't converted brass from one caliber to another.  I have yet to encounter a case that needed inside neck reaming. I form my own cases. Note that I anneal before forming the neck and consider that essential. Skip annealing at you own peril. If you are having issues look here first. Remember case sides of 223/5.56 brass are harder than the case mouth that was removed during forming. So the new neck being formed with unannealed cases was not fully formed to allow easy chambering, and this is blamed on thick necks. IIRC the 300 blk chamber was designed to use cut off 223/5.56 cases with the thicker necks formed from the case side walls. I have used LC, WCC, Win, RP, PMC, S&B, and many others. Yes I have tried all the headstamps on the "bad case list" that I don't allow to be posted here. Since I know that list is incorrect. Then there is the variable of different batches of the same headstamp of brass. Necks thicker? Don't know because it's never happened to me. Go to Page 1 of this thread, post 2 for more. Determining OAL and more, https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/300-Blackout-Master-Thread/42-385765/?#i3572696 |
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Originally Posted By SyberSniper: I never annealed, I always was worried I'd soften the remaining body too much, maybe that's why felt I needed to turn... https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Low-budget-Annealing/42-439440/ A dot of Templaq is placed inside the case mouth. It dries to a light blue. Case is spun and neck heated with a torch. You watch the dot of Templaq inside the case neck. When it turns transparent you have reached the proper temperature, and drop case into pan. Done, no water needed, you want the case to slowly cool off. |
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No... I meant I never annealed the cut down 300BLK... yes I regularly anneal 223, 308, etc - larger cases. Initially I used tempilac to get used to the color change, now I just use a propane torch in dim light and eyeball the blue ring as it rolls down the shoulder... |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: Don't know what happened to GHPorter's pic, here is mine. I had meant to quote SyberSniper’s picture, but I managed to skip that step. Oops. To all: I have followed dryflash3’s process pretty much exactly, and I’ve always gotten excellent results. Further, I’ve never found any particular headstamp that was “too thick” to convert. I’m pretty sure this comes from annealing the case before forming - and expanding - the neck. This draws the brass appropriately, and the excess brass is trimmed in the final step. |
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Originally Posted By SyberSniper: No... I meant I never annealed the cut down 300BLK... yes I regularly anneal 223, 308, etc - larger cases. Initially I used tempilac to get used to the color change, now I just use a propane torch in dim light and eyeball the blue ring as it rolls down the shoulder... |
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: I had meant to quote SyberSniper's picture, but I managed to skip that step. Oops. To all: I have followed dryflash3's process pretty much exactly, and I've always gotten excellent results. Further, I've never found any particular headstamp that was "too thick" to convert. I'm pretty sure this comes from annealing the case before forming - and expanding - the neck. This draws the brass appropriately, and the excess brass is trimmed in the final step. It the same process I use making 7-30 Waters from 30-30, and 7-TCU from 223. |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: Open Quote to see my comments. @dryflash3 So l tried to adjust my Lee crimp die per your recommendations. The problem is when l look down from the top at the die the collets or leafs don't move in and out. They look stuck closed. Is it possible l have a bad crimp die? I will try to take a picture when I get a chance. |
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Originally Posted By Mav3rick: @dryflash3 So l tried to adjust my Lee crimp die per your recommendations. The problem is when l look down from the top at the die the collets or leafs don't move in and out. They look stuck closed. Is it possible l have a bad crimp die? I will try to take a picture when I get a chance. Could be due to over crimping and damaging collet |
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300 Blackout Master Thread (Page 81 of 82)
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