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Posted: 5/7/2009 2:04:23 PM EDT
| can some of you guys who have been reloading for a while and are precision shooters please give me some ideas as to what powder, bullets, primers, and components of the actual round that you find best??? Also some links to where i can buy this stuff would be helpful as well. Thanks in advance. |
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Well here's the list but good luck finding the items on it..... Powder Varget primer Winchester large rifle brass lapua or winchester/remington ( lower cost ) Bullet .... Depends on use as does powder charge. Mike Varget is about as hard to find as a leprechaun primers I agree with Brass I agree with as well, also another option for blaster ammo is LC brass as well but ya have to deal wtih the crimp bullets...... depends on what you are looking to do or what rifle you are using as well. Hodgdon website has a list of various powders you can use for the 308 if you can't find varget. good luck in finding primers though that's as hard to find as varget unless you are willing to pay an outrageous price for them. |
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Winchester has good brass. Lapua is of course the best Bras$. The most accurate powder I have found for 308 is IMR 4064. I also Like Vihta Viourri N140. Varget and Benchmark are also superb, but extremely difficult to find right now.
I use Winchester Primers exclusively except for small rifle (cups are too soft for AR 15's could cause possible slam fires). Primers are your biggest challenge to find right now. if you can get a thousand in the 40-$45 range buy them irregardless of brand. I would go to your local gun shop and buy a pound of IMR 4064 and try it. New Brass-try MidwayUSA.com, Midsouthshooterssupply.com, Grafandsons.com. For once fired try scharchmfg.com, brassmanbrass.com Bullets-I would go with Sierra or Berger for Competition Rounds. But for long range Shooting I would seriously consider Hornady, Nosler, or Speer. I like the 168 grain HPBT but the 155 Grain Palma HPBT is excellent as well. Check out 150-180 grain HPBT and see what your rifle likes. Case Prep-Most important part of building a long range round. Check out 6mmbr.com for tips to get the most accuracy out of your round especially neck-turning. There are also many helpful links on this site. |
| You should do some reading. Check out Snipershide's reloading forum, there is a tacked thread with load data. That will give you a good idea of what components people are having success with. For us to help you, you need to lets us know what kind of shooting you want to do. Hunting, 1000yd, 100yd for groups? |
| Sorry, I didnt mean to sound like a butt nugget, but you really need to do some reading. What you will find is Varget and Reloader 15 (R-15, RL15...) for powder choice. For brass, Laupa is top of the line, but Winchester and Remington are also good, as is Lake City. You will find a lot of info on Federal brass having a thin web, which means it wont' last very long. The standard for primers is generaly Federal 210Ms. For bullets, you can't go wrong with the Siera Match King (SMK) Hollow Point Boat Tail (HPBT) for under 600 yds. Other brands in 168 HPBT are also generaly good in 308. For reaching to 1000, the 175gr SMK HPBT and the 155gr Lapua Scenar have been the standard, however there are others that will get there. Like I said, do some reading, and try to get your hands on a little bit of everything to see what your rifle likes. |
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We will really need more info.
What is the rifle - bolt, semiauto? What is the twist rate of the rifling? How long is the barrel? Are you competing? How much shooting experience do you have at the longer ranges? Do you have aplace to shoot at long range? Even before you answer the above, I used to use this: 190 gr Sierra MK seated 0.010" off the lands 42.0 gr IMR-4064 Winchester case (prep as much or as little as you like) Federal 210M primer I'd get 2600 fps from a 24" barrel which is enough to stay supersonic out to 1,000 yards and beyond. |
| used to shoot lots of 308 in competitions, sometimes they'd limit the size of bullet, so i got real good at loading sierra 155gr palma match bullets. When I wasnt doing that it was 168gr sierra mk. Only problem with the 168 gr is it wont stay supersonic out to a hundred. I think thats why the Army uses a heavier bullet in thier 7.62. Powders are IMR 4064 and 4895. IMR 4895 is pickier but when you find the sweet spot it shoots awesome. Almost any load in 4064 shoots good. I used all lake city special ball brass. Its not too consistent, but if you prep 100 cases you can end up with at least 30 that will match. Once you pick you powder and other stuff the biggest accuracy factor for me was seating depth. just a few thousands of of an inch means all the difference. I started with the bullet touching the lands then slowly backed off. holler if you have any other questions. Ill try to find my notebook with loads. |
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Cases, Winchester
Primers, CCI Projectiles, 175gr SMKs Powder, IMR 4064, 42.5grs. 2420fps. 168 SMKs, same as above, 43grs. 2460fps. 150gr, fmj, 44grs. 2600fps. All loads chronographed the same day, 65*f, 15' from muzzle Rifle is DPMS LR308T with 16" barrel accuracy with loads is as follows 168s, .5 inches average 5 shot group at 100 yards, best .360, worst .78 175s, just under .5 inches average, best .240, worst 1.2 inches with called flier 150s, just under 1 inch average, best .550, worst, 1.65 inches with called flier Rifle was scoped with a Bushnell 6500 2.5x16x42, front rested on Harris bipod, rear stock seated in shoulder. That's what works best for me. I basically got close to duplicating the factory loadings when I hit the sweet spot. Good luck and happy shooting. |
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20" barrel is not likely to get you to 1K. Best to hope for is 800-900yards. Most likely will have to use 175SMK. 155 scenars may work.
Try RL15, TAC, Varget, and 4064 or even BL-c2. I have found Hornady brass to very accurate in my 5R. Winchester and GGG brass was the best. Have not tried Lapua. I only use CCI BR-2 primers. Good luck |
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used to shoot lots of 308 in competitions, sometimes they'd limit the size of bullet, so i got real good at loading sierra 155gr palma match bullets. When I wasnt doing that it was 168gr sierra mk. Only problem with the 168 gr is it wont stay supersonic out to a hundred. I think thats why the Army uses a heavier bullet in thier 7.62. Powders are IMR 4064 and 4895. IMR 4895 is pickier but when you find the sweet spot it shoots awesome. Almost any load in 4064 shoots good. I used all lake city special ball brass. Its not too consistent, but if you prep 100 cases you can end up with at least 30 that will match. Once you pick you powder and other stuff the biggest accuracy factor for me was seating depth. just a few thousands of of an inch means all the difference. I started with the bullet touching the lands then slowly backed off. holler if you have any other questions. Ill try to find my notebook with loads. I'm fairly sure we don't want your load data that won't keep a 168 gr MK supersonic past 100 yards! 
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used to shoot lots of 308 in competitions, sometimes they'd limit the size of bullet, so i got real good at loading sierra 155gr palma match bullets. When I wasnt doing that it was 168gr sierra mk. Only problem with the 168 gr is it wont stay supersonic out to a hundred. I think thats why the Army uses a heavier bullet in thier 7.62. Powders are IMR 4064 and 4895. IMR 4895 is pickier but when you find the sweet spot it shoots awesome. Almost any load in 4064 shoots good. I used all lake city special ball brass. Its not too consistent, but if you prep 100 cases you can end up with at least 30 that will match. Once you pick you powder and other stuff the biggest accuracy factor for me was seating depth. just a few thousands of of an inch means all the difference. I started with the bullet touching the lands then slowly backed off. holler if you have any other questions. Ill try to find my notebook with loads. If just a few thousandths was critical, how do you deal with the never ending throat erosion that occurs even during a shooting session, or from session-to-session? I have never found accuracy to be very sensitive to OAL. You may have shot 155 SMK's but I bet it wasn't from a 20" barrel, was it? To reach 1,000 yards and stay supersonic with a 155 SMK, you are going to need a very high muzzle velocity. I agree with the others on this point - a 20" barrel is a poor choice to reach 1,000 yards in 308. I don't know what can and cannot be done with your 20" barrel. I would guess the 155 SMK is not correct. I would guess the 190 is a better choice if you can get good velocity in the barrel. The 175 SMK may be the best, as it is a compromise between better BC and higher weight. You'll have to test it out. |
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You should do some reading. Check out Snipershide's reloading forum, there is a tacked thread with load data. That will give you a good idea of what components people are having success with. For us to help you, you need to lets us know what kind of shooting you want to do. Hunting, 1000yd, 100yd for groups? This is great advice! The Sniper'sHide has some very knowledgeable members, who actually take the time to help a new guy out, rather than make fun of them. Just try to use the search engine first, since there are usually plenty of answers to your questions. Bullet choice is dictated by intended usage, please provide more info. For punching paper out a few hundred yards, I use 175 gr. SMKs, although a lot of people like the 155 gr Lapua Scenar. Both have great accuracy and B.C. BTW - I use 1x fired FGMM brass, with Varget powder, CCI BR2 primers and 175 gr SMK. I get .5 moa out of my Remington 700 5r. -psywar |
| You need to be really close to 2650fps with the 168 and 175SMKs to keep it supersonic past 1000. It is achievable in a 16" barrel, and is easily achievable in a barrel that is 20" long. I would still recommend the 175s if you gun likes them for any range, if only to simplify your reloading process. The 168s, in some cases have been know to begin to lose stabilization around 800-900 yards, enough to the x-ring, and maybe the ten, but not enough to throw you off a man sized target. Of course at that distance, every inch counts in a real life situation. With the load I'm shooting right now, I'm only supersonic to about 870yds, but it is the most accurate load for my rifle, and that's what I'm after, plus I'd have to push it another 100-150 fps to get it to cross that line, and I don't want to take any chances. With a barrel length of twenty inches, you should get really close. I began to see slight signs of pressure with ejector marks at that at about 2620. |
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The rifle is an SPS tactical, 20 incher. I have been shooting at long ranges for a while now, just new getting into the reloading game. i am a SS in the marine corps so i think that my shooting isnt to bad. Powder - With the bolt rifle, you're looking at Varget (super rare), Reloader 15 or 4064 as the powders of choice. After that, go for 4895 or the ball powders (TAC, BLC-2, 2460, etc). Whatever is available and at the most reasonable cost. Bullets - You can use any of the match-style 168s or 175s, but I would stick to the non-VLDs so you can have more success with mag-length loads. Even the Amax bullets are more finicky when they're loaded away from the lands. Some folks have had good luck with the 155s, but for 1000yds, you need pretty good velocity (2800+) and that's harder to get with a 20" tube. Primers - Use whatever Large Rfile primers you can get your hands on for now. Personally, I use Remington 9 1/2s with quite good success. CCIs, WLRs, Federal 210 or 210M, etc work well also. Brass - You have access to LC, use it. Otherwise, use whatever you can afford. Right now, your trigger time with ammo that will hold a decent (sub-moa) group is more important than spending extra time with ammo that holds great (sub 1/2moa) groups. Time doping wind is precious. Assuming you're close to Jacksonville, you should try and shoot the Division Matches if you can. Do well there and try to make the Team. Then reloading won't be an issue. Hold hard. ps - shouldn't it be "Deadly8541" now? |
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What twist? Barrel length? In my 1:10" twist Shilen 26" bull tube, 190 MKs with Varget are still super at 1000 yards. The new Palma might too BUT the over-stabilization from the 1:10" twist rate might cause the BC to suffer. But it launches both 168 and the older Palmas just fine for all use, including to 600 yards and beyond. |
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... has some very knowledgeable members, who actually take the time to help a new guy out, rather than make fun of them. -psywar I didn't see anyone making fun of him in the least. He got a lot of good info here. If you refer to my "lol, nm", I accidentally posted a response to a different question in this thread. It was about 223. I erased it and moved on. |
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Sorry if anyone took offense... I wasn't talking about anyone here!
I have been on this board for years, and by in large, people here are great towards novices. All I was saying, was the peeps at SH are especially cool towards a novice long range shooter. cheers, psywar |
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20" barrel is not likely to get you to 1K. Best to hope for is 800-900yards. Most likely will have to use 175SMK. 155 scenars may work. Try RL15, TAC, Varget, and 4064 or even BL-c2. I have found Hornady brass to very accurate in my 5R. Winchester and GGG brass was the best. Have not tried Lapua. I only use CCI BR-2 primers. Good luck 155s are his best bet. They have a similar BC to the 175gr SMK but should be able to be pushed at least 150fps faster. |
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You need to be really close to 2650fps with the 168 and 175SMKs to keep it supersonic past 1000. It is achievable in a 16" barrel, and is easily achievable in a barrel that is 20" long. I would still recommend the 175s if you gun likes them for any range, if only to simplify your reloading process. The 168s, in some cases have been know to begin to lose stabilization around 800-900 yards, enough to the x-ring, and maybe the ten, but not enough to throw you off a man sized target. Of course at that distance, every inch counts in a real life situation. With the load I'm shooting right now, I'm only supersonic to about 870yds, but it is the most accurate load for my rifle, and that's what I'm after, plus I'd have to push it another 100-150 fps to get it to cross that line, and I don't want to take any chances. With a barrel length of twenty inches, you should get really close. I began to see slight signs of pressure with ejector marks at that at about 2620. So what is this load you speak of? |
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I load .308 big time . I use H-4895 , IMR-4895 , IMR 4064 , BL-C2 , WIN 748 or WIN 760 . I am not limited to one powder and I can use most of the powders listed to achieve the same results for the same bullet . For bullets I like the SMK's in 155-175 as well as the mil spec .308 168 BTHP's from Wideners . I also like Berger VLD bullets as well . For primers I use CCI #34 or a Winchester large rifle .
If you want to stay shooting don't limit yourself to one powder and do extensive testing and you will end up with several accurate loads for each bullet . |
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Winchester has good brass. Lapua is of course the best Bras$. The most accurate powder I have found for 308 is IMR 4064. I also Like Vihta Viourri N140. Varget and Benchmark are also superb, but extremely difficult to find right now. I use Winchester Primers exclusively except for small rifle (cups are too soft for AR 15's could cause possible slam fires). Primers are your biggest challenge to find right now. if you can get a thousand in the 40-$45 range buy them irregardless of brand. I would go to your local gun shop and buy a pound of IMR 4064 and try it. New Brass-try MidwayUSA.com, Midsouthshooterssupply.com, Grafandsons.com. For once fired try scharchmfg.com, brassmanbrass.com Bullets-I would go with Sierra or Berger for Competition Rounds. But for long range Shooting I would seriously consider Hornady, Nosler, or Speer. I like the 168 grain HPBT but the 155 Grain Palma HPBT is excellent as well. Check out 150-180 grain HPBT and see what your rifle likes. Case Prep-Most important part of building a long range round. Check out 6mmbr.com for tips to get the most accuracy out of your round especially neck-turning. There are also many helpful links on this site. Never had a issue with a Win small rifle primer going off in a ar-15 unless I chambered the round multiple times . Probably hosed 50K plus rounds with Win small rifle primers loaded in a M-16 with zero slam fires . |
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20" barrel is not likely to get you to 1K. Best to hope for is 800-900yards. Most likely will have to use 175SMK. 155 scenars may work. Try RL15, TAC, Varget, and 4064 or even BL-c2. I have found Hornady brass to very accurate in my 5R. Winchester and GGG brass was the best. Have not tried Lapua. I only use CCI BR-2 primers. Good luck Not true at all. I've seen people shoot with a .308 bolt gun with a 16" barrel and nail steel shot after shot at 1000 yds. Definitely not optimal, then again, .308 isn't the optimal caliber for 1K when comparing to many other calibers, but it can be done. |
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20" barrel is not likely to get you to 1K. Best to hope for is 800-900yards. Most likely will have to use 175SMK. 155 scenars may work. Try RL15, TAC, Varget, and 4064 or even BL-c2. I have found Hornady brass to very accurate in my 5R. Winchester and GGG brass was the best. Have not tried Lapua. I only use CCI BR-2 primers. Good luck Not true at all. I've seen people shoot with a .308 bolt gun with a 16" barrel and nail steel shot after shot at 1000 yds. Definitely not optimal, then again, .308 isn't the optimal caliber for 1K when comparing to many other calibers, but it can be done. huh. I haven't seen this. But of course I haven't seen it all. I wouldn't bother trying to lob in a .308 bullet of any weight to 1K out of a 16" barrel. Definatley not optimal. But the .308 is a decent 1K round without a doubt. As it has been said a 1000 times, it is best to have a MV of 2600 fps if you want to achieve 1K considering the transonic factor. And yes, I'll say this for the 1001 time, once the bullet goes transonic it becomes unstable. I would love to see this 16" gun pull off 1K. What say you AeroE? (to me AeroE always offers rock solid advice...I prepare to stand corrected about the 16" .308 at 1K) |
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