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Posted: 2/23/2013 11:41:30 AM EDT
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I don't know what is causing the problem. I can't get the camera to catch what I can see as feel adequately as in person but here it is.
This happened to me with 5 pieces of PMC brass. I broke down the rounds as I wasn't comfortable with the idea of shooting them. It seems like the case has grown too thin ans can't handle the strain of loading the round. Did I get a batch of over used brass or is this some other problem to tackle? 
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| I think I may be over belling...The cases stick a little coming out of the die when I bell. Yes I do seat and crimp in one die. I have it set for a very light crimp. I found it unusual that this only happened with my PMC brass. But I just measured a few pieces and they have a wide varience in case wall thickness from .008-.013 on varying and this was on several pieces sampled at random from the group..The other bras winchester, federal rp etc have been more consistent from .009 -.012. measuring at several points around the case mouth. |
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I just finished sorting. It looks like I got equal parts Winchester, Federal and RP then about 100 more PMC aside from what I may have already loaded and about 150 mixed of a range of head stamps.
Other than the 5 PMC pieces that crumpled on me I was getting pretty consistent 1.250 length with a light crimp. I don't have a chrono yet as I am just starting but with 4.4gr of TiteGroup there were no pressure signs, the recoil felt good and at 7 yards I made a 1 inch hole with my test rounds. Of the loads I tested that one was the winner so I haven't done anymore testing. |
| I found the Lee FCD with a 1-2 month ship date for about $19 and $42 available now. I have all Lee dies right now. I thought they were a good place to start for getting into reloading on the cheap.. I have 4 die carbide sets for 9 and 40 but only a 3 die carbide set for 45. I also jumped on a set of 300AAC BlackOut dies because they were available even though I haven't finished my AR build for that caliber yet. I wanted to learn on straight wall pistol cartridges. |
| Just back the die body out some so the crimp feature isn't in play when seating bullets. You'll have to adjust the seater in to compensate. Screw die body in to crimp -but- back bullet seater stem out so it doesn't contact the bullet when crimping. It adds another trip through the press and resetting the die, but you gotta do that anyway with a Lee FCD. |
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I'd also double check the case lenght on the PMC just to see if they're significantly longer than the other brands just to eliminate it as an issue.
You could use your die to do both jobs seperately for now. (I would loathe to do it this way if I loaded a lot of this caliber often but it's a work around in a pinch) yeah, what he said! Back the die off so the crimp isn't applied and screw your seater stem in to get your correct seating. do all your loads this way for seating, then back the seating stem out so it isn't doing anymore seating and slowly screw the die body in until it does little more than remove the bell. Test your crimp with a firm press onto a hard surface like your bench. If it moves at all, crimp more until it doesn't move. |
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I've layed back, thinking this thread would iron out towards a solution. To get to a solution the right questions have to be asked. Have read thread, through at least five times and see no mention what type press is being used or question asked.
No doubt, this is a die issue. Question is, what die ? Crimp die ? Bet not, this issue started in the sizing die is my bet. If this were someone I was teaching or an issue I was having. All dies would be pulled out, taken apart, cleaned, inspected and start all over again setting dies starting with the bell or powder thru expander die. Sounds crazy don't it ? dc. |
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Quoted:
I've layed back, thinking this thread would iron out towards a solution. To get to a solution the right questions have to be asked. Have read thread, through at least five times and see no mention what type press is being used or question asked. No doubt, this is a die issue. Question is, what die ? Crimp die ? Bet not, this issue started in the sizing die is my bet. If this were someone I was teaching or an issue I was having. All dies would be pulled out, taken apart, cleaned, inspected and start all over again setting dies starting with the bell or powder thru expander die. Sounds crazy don't it ? dc. So for a full run down I'm running a Lyman ST press, hand priming with a Lee safety prime, Lee perfect powder measure on a stand and Lee carbide 3 die set in 45. I'll take it all apart clean, everything and start over. I thought I was pretty clear in the question I had asked. I was not clear if this was a brass issue or if it was something I was doing. |
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I'm loading every head stamp that hits a range floor, including PMC without issue. I'm going with expander plug is set too deep and pulling case mouth. Easy way to check, pull expander/decap pin and size a case. If sized with less effort, noticeably less effort. There's your Huckleberry.
If not then we have to look at the next die. dc. |
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Quoted:
I'm loading every head stamp that hits a range floor, including PMC without issue. I'm going with expander plug is set too deep and pulling case mouth. Easy way to check, pull expander/decap pin and size a case. If sized with less effort, noticeably less effort. There's your Huckleberry. If not then we have to look at the next die. dc. So the expander is hard to get out of. It definetly sticks coming back out of the die. It will be Thursday before I have time to work on my press again. |
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How much bell are you putting on the case? I don't remember off the top of my head but thursday when I get some free time again I'll measure cases at every stage of the process. Keep in mind that you only want to bell the case mouth just enough so that you can start the bullet. The belling should be very slight with a jacketed bullet- a little more for a lead bullet. It should be just enough so the bullet is slightly inside the case mouth so it doesn't crush the case when the bullet is seated or shave lead if that is what you are loading. |
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Bingo, nailed it. That's your problem, right there. This forum is fortunate to have a level of expertise in teaching new guys up a spell. There's a few in here I consider mentors, but I'm a closing in on'em fast for experience. Theres not a reloading forum on the web operating at a teaching level like this one. I participate in two other reloading forums under different names. You'll know my posts when signed dc.
That said, there's a tendency here to substitute math for adjectives. That way in every forum. Its sloppy in my opinion and borders on talking points. If you follow my math. You'll do well. Afterwards phrases like use just enough bell to seat a bullet will make more sense. Brass case walls vary in thickness. When giving case mouth measurements I use outside dimension. We can make this easier by saying case mouths need a bell measuring 0.00pick your number for inside dimension bell. My number is 0.002 inside diameter. So what do I mean ? I mean if using 0.452 bullet, bell to your inside case mouth dimension is 0.002 over bullet diameter. There's a die tuning thread of mine on page one or two. I'd make a link hot but this Android doesn't always cooperate. Regards, dc. Quoted:
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I'm loading every head stamp that hits a range floor, including PMC without issue. I'm going with expander plug is set too deep and pulling case mouth. Easy way to check, pull expander/decap pin and size a case. If sized with less effort, noticeably less effort. There's your Huckleberry. If not then we have to look at the next die. dc. So the expander is hard to get out of. It definetly sticks coming back out of the die. It will be Thursday before I have time to work on my press again. |
| So after some cleaning and resetting the dies. I'm back where I started. If I set for no crimp I get consistent results. If I set for .001-.002 crimp I get crushed/buckled case every couple rounds. At this point I have decided to stick to no crimp until I upgrade my equipment. |
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Quoted: So after some cleaning and resetting the dies. I'm back where I started. If I set for no crimp I get consistent results. If I set for .001-.002 crimp I get crushed/buckled case every couple rounds. At this point I have decided to stick to no crimp until I upgrade my equipment. Get a separate die for crimping. This is what I do for any cartridge I load that I want to put a crimp on. |
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Quoted: Crazy like a foxI've layed back, thinking this thread would iron out towards a solution. To get to a solution the right questions have to be asked. Have read thread, through at least five times and see no mention what type press is being used or question asked. No doubt, this is a die issue. Question is, what die ? Crimp die ? Bet not, this issue started in the sizing die is my bet. If this were someone I was teaching or an issue I was having. All dies would be pulled out, taken apart, cleaned, inspected and start all over again setting dies starting with the bell or powder thru expander die. Sounds crazy don't it ? dc. |
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Did you set dies to longest case height ? dc. I just measured about 50 cases and the longest I found was .895. I put that one aside and I'm going to set based on that one and see how the next batch comes out. If I can seat and crimp in the same stage it would be awesome. If not I'm going to switch to seat ant crimp in separate steps which will be a little annoying with just the one die right now. |
| This could be a belling/crimping issue, but IDK why everyone is making that assumption. I get that bulge on some of my 45 cases, but I'm pretty sure it's because I used cheap oversized bullets that cause a very slight bulge for their length. Try seating half-way and see if the bulge only goes half as far. |
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Cases/P8040300.jpg Case on left sized .466, center belled .478, right belled with a bullet on top. Crimped .470. All measurements at case mouth. eta, I seat and crimp in separate dies. Those projectiles look pretty. Can you PM or post the specs/brand? |
| Well after much frustration trying to get my seat/crimp die set properly. I decided to split the steps and seat then readjust and crimp. I had much more consistent results breaking up the steps. I made a few batches to see what kind of crimp works best for my 1911. |
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Quoted: Quoted: http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Cases/P8040300.jpg Case on left sized .466, center belled .478, right belled with a bullet on top. Crimped .470. All measurements at case mouth. eta, I seat and crimp in separate dies. Those projectiles look pretty. Can you PM or post the specs/brand?  I cast them soft. Don't need super hard magnum alloy for 800 fps. Range lead and unknown scrap given to me and 1 ingot of WW's per 20 pound pot.
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Quoted:
Well after much frustration trying to get my seat/crimp die set properly. I decided to split the steps and seat then readjust and crimp. I had much more consistent results breaking up the steps. I made a few batches to see what kind of crimp works best for my 1911. There's an extremely fine line when setting die to seat/crimp at same time. Sizer and expander dies have to be set perfectly as well. Die tuning is an art. 
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